Was Jesus Really Poor?

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pastor cyber

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Then opening their TREASURE BAGS, they(the wisemen) presented to Him(Jesus) gifts - GOLD, FRANKINCENSE and MYRRH - Matthew 2:11(AMP)

While still a child, Jesus was given treasure of very high value by the wisemen. This was wealth. This treasure could have been converted into a huge sum of money. And notice, in the preceding scripture, that this treasure was carried in more than one treasure bag! This suggests a sizable amount of treasure. So, it appears, Jesus started life well taken care of.

Some thought that, since Judas had the MONEY BOX, Jesus was telling him, buy what we need for the festival or that he should GIVE something to the POOR - John 13:29(AMP)

Jesus had a manager for His finances. Judas managed the finances of Jesus. How many poor people, have someone specifically in charge of their money? Jesus must have had a significant amount of money at His disposal, for Jesus to require the services of someone to oversee His money. And notice, in the preceding scripture, why would the disciples think, that Jesus was talking about giving to the poor, if Jesus Himself was also poor? Jesus must have given to the poor in the past, for such a thought to cross the disciples's minds.

But Judas Iscariot, the one of His disciples, who was about to betray Him, said, why was the perfume not sold for 300 DENARII, and that money given to the poor? - John 12:2(AMP)

If Jesus and His disciples were poor, why would they talk about selling the perfume for 300 Denarii and giving the money to the poor? In those days, 1 Denarius was equivalent to a day's wages. So, 300 Denarii was equivalent to wages for 300 days! How many people can give away or talk about giving away, that much money? If Jesus badly needed money, why will the disciples talk about giving away, that much money?

And (Judas) having the MONEY BAG, he took for himself, what was put into it - John 12:6(AMP)

While managing the finances for Jesus, Judas Iscariot, used to steal some for himself, from the money bag. Why would Judas, feel confident that his stealing will not be detected, if Jesus had less finances? If Jesus had less finances, the stealing would have been easily and quickly discovered. Jesus must have had a lot of money, for Judas to believe, that he could steal some and not be noticed.

And He(Jesus) appointed TWELVE(disciples) to continue to be with Him - Mark 3:14(AMP)

Jesus was responsible for the welfare of twelve grown men plus Himself. How could He manage that, if He was broke, busted and disgusted? Why would twelve grown men leave their families and occupations, to follow a man with no means of supporting them or Himself? How many people can support twelve extra people plus themselves?

And leaving the throng, they(the disciples) took Him(Jesus) with them, as He was, in the BOAT. And OTHER BOATS were with Him - Mark 4:36(AMP)

Jesus was in one boat, accompanied by other boats. Whether Jesus owned or rented these boats, we don't know. But it must have cost something to acquire, rent or operate a number of boats. Poor folks don't usually own or rent boats and they surely don't travel accompanied by other boats. Jesus travelled with an entourage. How many poor people travel with an entourage?

But He(Jesus) was in the stern of the boat, asleep on a cushion(pillow) -Mark 4:38(AMP)

Jesus was asleep, relaxing comfortably, with His head on a cushion or pillow, while His disciples or followers steered the boat. This doesn't look like a picture of poverty.

As Jesus passed on from there, He saw a man named Matthew, sitting at the TAX COLLECTOR's office; and he said to him, be my disciple. And Matthew rose and followed - Matthew 9:9(AMP)

The present Bible is a summary of the original and it doesn't provide us with all the small details. Matthew didn't just instantly, abandon the tax office. No one in their right mind would quit their job like that. Before Matthew, could leave his job, there were negotiations with Jesus. Jesus made an offer, which Matthew considered and accepted. Apparently, Jesus must have made Matthew a better offer, for Matthew to give up his job. Because, why would Matthew, a grown man, possibly with a family, give up his and his family's livelihood for less or nothing? And if Jesus could make a better offer, it's because He had a lot of resources.

And immediately, He(Jesus) called out to them(the fishermen) and they left their FATHER Zebedee in the boat, with the HIRED MEN and went off after Jesus - Mark 1:20(AMP)

Again here, these men didn't just leave their father and the hired men or employees, as soon as Jesus called. First, Jesus made them a reasonable offer, which they discussed with their father and then they accepted it. These men weren't just fishing for fun, they were professional fishermen. This was a big operation and big business. They even had employees or hired men working for them. These men were well-to-do, even before joining Jesus. Poor people don't have employees or hired men working for them. Jesus must have made them a very good offer, for them to abandon their business. And if Jesus did not have a lot of resources, how could He convince well-to-do businessmen to leave their business and work for Him?

And as He(Jesus) was passing by, He saw Lev, son of Alphaeus, sitting at the TAX OFFICE, and He said to him, follow me - Mark 2:14(AMP)

In those days, most people had no access to education. Collecting taxes requires education. So the tax collectors were educated people. They were part of the educated class or elites and well to do. If Jesus was poor, He wouldn't have been able to persuade such people, to give up their occupations and follow Him. And besides, Jesus could not have asked illiterate people to assist Him, in adminstering His ministry and it's finances. Jesus needed educated people to run His ministry and Finances. All the men, that Jesus brought into His ministry, either owned a business or were working professionals, gainfully employed.

And when they(the guards) had crucified Him(Jesus), they divided and distributed His GARMENTS among themselves by casting lots - Matthew 27:35(AMP)

The garments or clothes, that Jesus wore must have been of very high quality, for the guards to cast lots, in order to determine, who will get what or anything. It seems, everyone wanted those clothes! Why would everyone want a dead man's clothes? Those clothes must have cost a lot. Can you imagine, people casting lots to decide, who will get a poor man's clothes or fighting over them?

*Removed*
 
I question how well this approach is going to go.
 
Shouldn't the Sunday sermons come on Sunday?

Anyway, I'm of the opinion that most of the New Testament is allegorical rather than factual.

So, basically I'm a heretic.
 
All of this assumes that jesus had to bribe people to get them to follow him. If he was truely the son of God, people from all walks of life would've followed him.

Does it truely matter whether or not Jesus was wealthy? If he was, so what?

Besides...all of this also assumes that jesus actually existed historically.
 
SophiaGrace said:
Besides...all of this also assumes that jesus actually existed historically.

Oo, I hope you have your flame-retardant longjohns on, Soph. Them's fightin' words!
 
cheaptrickfan said:
SophiaGrace said:
Besides...all of this also assumes that jesus actually existed historically.

Oo, I hope you have your flame-retardant longjohns on, Soph. Them's fightin' words!

If he can give me undeniable proof that jesus existed historically. So be it.

Then I can say " Ok, so Jesus existed historically" and then look at the records to see what they say.

Hell, for all I know if there are any, all they'd contain is Jesus's Car registration. Oh wait...they didnt have cars back then...
 
cheaptrickfan said:
SophiaGrace said:
Besides...all of this also assumes that jesus actually existed historically.

Oo, I hope you have your flame-retardant longjohns on, Soph. Them's fightin' words!

Come one, come all, to the church of minty freshness. Rid your soul of that nasty aftertaste :D
 
I'm trying to work out if this article even has a point. As someone who is not a Xtian, I question its validity. Hell, I'd do that even if I was.

EDIT: Oh wait, I'm guessing the pastor wants people to make him rich through donations. Send me money so I may live in opulence, peasants!
 
mintymint said:
cheaptrickfan said:
SophiaGrace said:
Besides...all of this also assumes that jesus actually existed historically.

Oo, I hope you have your flame-retardant longjohns on, Soph. Them's fightin' words!

Come one, come all, to the church of minty freshness. Rid your soul of that nasty aftertaste :D

*gasp* I hope you don't mean to imply that you have adulterated the body of Christ with mint oil! ;-)

SophiaGrace said:
If he can give me undeniable proof that jesus existed historically. So be it.

Then I can say " Ok, so Jesus existed historically" and then look at the records to see what they say.


Even if we had census records proving that there existed some guy named Jesus, born in Bethlehem, it in no way proves the miracles ascribed to him or the Resurrection.
 
cheaptrickfan said:
*gasp* I hope you don't mean to imply that you have adulterated the body of Christ with mint oil! ;-)

Come hither my child, and let me anoint you with peppermint oil... and vanilla extract. :p
 
mintymint said:
cheaptrickfan said:
*gasp* I hope you don't mean to imply that you have adulterated the body of Christ with mint oil! ;-)

Come hither my child, and let me anoint you with peppermint oil... and vanilla extract. :p

Is this a new-fangled oil of catechumens, or a recipe for some sort of cookie?
 
cheaptrickfan said:
mintymint said:
cheaptrickfan said:
*gasp* I hope you don't mean to imply that you have adulterated the body of Christ with mint oil! ;-)

Come hither my child, and let me anoint you with peppermint oil... and vanilla extract. :p

Is this a new-fangled oil of catechumens, or a recipe for some sort of cookie?

lol! :p
 
cheaptrickfan said:
mintymint said:
cheaptrickfan said:
*gasp* I hope you don't mean to imply that you have adulterated the body of Christ with mint oil! ;-)

Come hither my child, and let me anoint you with peppermint oil... and vanilla extract. :p

Is this a new-fangled oil of catechumens, or a recipe for some sort of cookie?

lol! Add flour, sugar, eggs, baking soda and mix with a heretical fervor. Bake at 325 for 15 minutes.
 
Steel said:
I'm trying to work out if this article even has a point. As someone who is not a Xtian, I question its validity. Hell, I'd do that even if I was.

EDIT: Oh wait, I'm guessing the pastor wants people to make him rich through donations. Send me money so I may live in opulence, peasants!

Or taking a page from the Oral Roberts playbook by claiming that God directed him to raise an additional $8 million above regular ministry expenses in a moth's time, or God would "bring him home."

Shameless.

mintymint said:
lol! Add flour, sugar, eggs, baking soda and mix with a heretical fervor. Bake at 325 for 15 minutes.


It's the heretical fervor that adds that special zing.
 
cheaptrickfan said:
Or taking a page from the Oral Roberts playbook by claiming that God directed him to raise an additional $8 million above regular ministry expenses in a moth's time, or God would "bring him home."


...But isn't that a good thing for him and for us?
 
Well its pretty much impossible to prove the existence of miracles unless one happens right in front of you or there is a scientific study done on it. But if miracles could be scientifically studied then they wouldnt be miracles now would they? Would they?

Isn't the definition of miracles, occurances that cannot be explained using scientific methods or logic?

So I dont know how an historical document could prove or disprove that miracles happened, because it's so limited.

But all of this flies in the face of hundreds of years of physics & medicinal studies :p

Edit:

You know what? My grammar is ******* horrible. CTF is probably looking at my writing thinking "I saw 3 grammatical errors in that last sentence alone!" and spazzing out. >_>
 
mintymint said:
cheaptrickfan said:
Or taking a page from the Oral Roberts playbook by claiming that God directed him to raise an additional $8 million above regular ministry expenses in a moth's time, or God would "bring him home."


...But isn't that a good thing for him and for us?

I'd have been all for it. People, don't donate! Let him go on to his Heavenly Reward! Absolutely.

It's appalling that people could allow themselves to be manipulated like that. It is one thing if they take their obligation to tithe seriously. That's admirable, I think. But what he did was essentially extortion (or is it blackmail? The OxyContin is clouding my mind... d'oh).

SophiaGrace said:
Well its pretty much impossible to prove the existence of miracles unless one happens right in front of you or there is a scientific study done on it. But if miracles could be scientifically studied then they wouldnt be miracles now would they? Would they?

Isn't the definition of miracles, occurances that cannot be explained using scientific methods or logic?

So I dont know how an historical document could prove or disprove that miracles happened, because it's so limited.

I guess what I mean is that there are no documents referring to his miracles which were contemporary to his time. All of the scriptures were written long after he died. Facts can lost and reinterpreted through time.


SophiaGrace said:
Edit:

You know what? My grammar is ******* horrible. CTF is probably looking at my writing thinking "I saw 3 grammatical errors in that last sentence alone!" and spazzing out. >_>

Not at all. Your grammar is excellent.

Plus, first off, I adore you. xoxo

Second, you're not my student, so I would not be moved to correct your grammar even if it were riddled with horrendous errors. lol

Third, correct me if I'm wrong, but is your first language ASL? Sometimes that can led to errors in syntax, spelling and punctuation just as a native French speaker might make mistakes in English.

Fourth, these forums and email and chat rooms aren't really the domain of official, grammatically correct language anyway because we're often trying to add an element of casualness or chattiness to our language.
 
lmfao....you guys are trolling a troll!! Seems the shoe is on the other foot. :p I'm laughing too hard to delete his link or close the thread...carry on, lol. :p (for the moment)
 
EveWasFramed said:
lmfao....you guys are trolling a trol!! Seems the shoe is on the other foot. :p I'm laughing too hard to delete his link or close the thread...carry on, lol. :p (for the moment)

Sometimes it's fun to feed the trolls.

FeedMe.jpg
 
Well Mr Pastor, as expected, your efforts are having even less effect than throwing out leaflets or standing on the street corner shouting. While undoubtedly you feel like you are doing good work, both the effort and effect of pasting talks into forums is rather minimal and impersonal. While i am not suggesting that you actually hang out on the forum to get to know the people before you try to convert them, i do question the effectiveness of your actions here and your commitment to it. We see spammers all the time who take the same actions you have, in an attempt to make a buck. Your method here is putting you pretty much in the same boat as them. I also have to agree with Sophia that you seem to have chosen a pretty weird topic. While it may mean something to you, it seems pretty irrelevant to your purpose, though i should admit that i only took long enough to make sure that you weren't trying to raise money, and didn't really bother to read it.
 
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