Case said:
Furthermore, in pick-up culture, women are ranked by a 1 to 10 scale. A pick-up artist (PUA) would never ever "neg" any woman below an 8. Negging is only used for the type of woman who has men falling over her and can essentially pick and choose whomever she wants.
The reason this is supposed to work, according to PUA lore, is for the same reason that a billionaire male might seek out a dominatrix. Since the male is always in power situations, actually being a "sub" and ordered around by a dominatrix is often sexually stimulating for the super-powerful. Therefore, if a woman who has every man begging her for sex, the guy who actually disses her and does not act like the others and demands that she give the man respect, automatically shows himself to be different than all the other men she sees, theoretically making her more interested.
It makes sense, but does it actually work though? I remember I was talking to extremely attractive, intelligent women who presumably were always in the power situation and were aware of it. They had sufficient looks that they could have almost anyone they want. I on the other hand felt like I wasn't on their level of power.
One thing that I've seen a lot of is to make sure you disagree with a woman you like, when it is appropriate to do so. To call them out when you differ on something or when they are wrong. I've heard it said that women don't like a "yes" man, and I think I've definitely made that mistake. It was easy to be agreeable with them because we had things in common and because I was willing to overlook the things I disagreed with them about, in favor of the stuff that I liked about them. Calling them out didn't seem worth it.
This makes sense, since it shows that I have a spine and will stick up for myself and my values and not slavishly grovel to these women because nobody likes a groveler. I don't think it's quite the same as "negging", but perhaps it's in the same vein, like asserting yourself and your worth and refusing to compromise yourself and mindlessly going along with whatever she says because she's good-looking.
Hauntyoueveryday said:
TheSkafish: That was a very good post. Really couldn't have said it better myself. I don't think that most people that get into pick up get into it to have a lot of casual sex at first. But companies like RSD basically tell you this: do not try to get a girlfriend, get abundance by having sex with a lot of women, creating a rotation, having multiple girlfriends, not getting attached to one girlfriend, and stuff like that. So with that being pounded into your head that you have to do this and it can happen your mind naturally goes that way. My mind certainly did. I never quite got a rotation. But I was able to have casual sex here or there. It's never quite what you think it is. I remember one month I slept with just about a new girl every week. It was fun for one day. But I didn't feel better about myself. And there are a ton of cocky ******** in pick up that confuse that with confidence. Thing is cockiness has nothing to do with confidence.
I was re watching American Pie two last week. I really wish that I had paid more attention to it when I watched it just starting high school. Michelle said a few good things to Jim when helping him. One thing was that you have to able to go with the flow in any situation in the bedroom. So true. Self doubt kills attraction.
At the end of day taking action is better than taking no action. I have a cousin who hasn't had sex in seven years. He doesn't leave his house at all and never approaches. Would you rather try pick up or be like him?
At the end of the day a good place to start with attracting women is self confidence, being able to be comfortable in any situation, being fun, being positive, being your ideal self, being on your purpose, being in the present moment, reading in between the lines, good body language, good eye contact, good vocal tonality, not putting her on a pedestal, and not giving a honeysuckle what she says. That's why the bad boy is so attractive. Unlike the nice guy he is free to do all of that. A lot of bad boys do not have anything going on for them but still get laid. I am not advocating that kind of life because there is more to life than getting laid. But just being a nice guy and having a good job is simply not enough.
Thank you. But given a choice between pick-up or go on single for the rest of my life, I'd rather do neither. I was never really interested in sleeping with a lot of women and having no feelings about it. I just want one special woman to share life with.
I can definitely see how self-doubt in the bedroom would be a problem, but when I was talking about self-doubt though, I was saying it more in general. I meant self-doubt about anything, what job you want to do, what hobbies you want, who you want to be. As a guy, having self-doubt or self-pity just doesn't make us look good. Women don't seem to care much for men who are in an identity crisis. For me because I got along with those women so well I forgot that they were women I was trying to
impress, not a therapist to tell all my problems to. Oversharing is a big problem when you are trying to get to know someone. It's like a job interview or an audition. You just don't want to do anything at all that could possibly make you look bad.
But I also agree that being a nice guy and having a good job are not enough. Still I'm not sure what I can do about that though. Growing up I never really had anything to rebel against. My life was pretty good. Rebellion seemed dumb to me and not worth the risk. There isn't an element of danger about me. I can deliver good conversation, common interests, and affection but I've had a hard time when it comes to cheap thrills. This is trouble because while I wanted to be with these interesting, exciting girls, I was not on their level yet. I was just a guy with a business education who isn't good at any hobbies and who doesn't know what he wants to be and spends a lot of time surfing the Internet. So, I have to find another way to be interesting and exciting. I believe it's possible, but I'm not sure yet how I can do it.
A lot of those things you said that a guy needs to do in order to project self-confidence and attraction seem to be physical though. But the only women I've been interested in dating, I've met on the Internet. How do you think I could I convey attractiveness online? I mean, people have gotten into relationships with people they met on the Internet, so there's got to be some way.
Xpendable said:
I think that's the biggest misconception about free will. The lack of free will doesn't mean you don't make your own choices; you do it consciously and in autopilot. What we argue is that all our choices come from somewhere. Every rationalization, thought and decision come from previous experiences, the environment and genetic predisposition. Doesn't matter how unpredictable you think your choices are, you're restrained by all those factors.
I don't know how much of it I'd give to genetic predisposition, but I'd agree with the idea that every choice we make comes from previous experiences and our environment. I still wouldn't say you're restrained though, just influenced. It might be hard but you could always consider choosing to go against what you think you know.
Hauntyoueveryday said:
Like Skafish said, mating is a skill. Not every guy can properly step to a woman. And if you can't do that as a man than you are messed.
Well, not necessarily. I think not being a natural with women starts you at a disadvantage, but I still think the skill can be learned.
