Can you solve these paradoxes?

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XehanortXIII

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I want to have a relationship, but nobody I like wants a relationship with me
I created standards of my own, but apparently I don't meet the standards of anybody
I upheld my standards, but some people tell me to lower them
I become as flexible as I can, yet nobody can be flexible for me
I'm constantly being asked to consider settling, yet nobody can settle for me
Women want me to make the first move at all times, none of them would ever approach me

I want to be wanted sexually, but nobody wants to be wanted by me
Appearance shouldn't matter to me, they say, but it matters when it comes to the subject of dating me
I should be supportive towards abused women, but being an abused man I shouldn't expect support or empathy
Gender roles are toxic and should be ignored, but I'm supposed to be "the man" and always do everything to "earn" love
Nobody owes me shit, yet I'm in eternal debt for existing or wanting love
Being nice doesn't get me anything, being an asshole doesn't either
Being me is unacceptable, being someone else is too
I am supposed to "love myself so others love me", but the people telling me this were usually loved by someone else who taught them how to love themselves. I had nobody to teach me.

Love is the most painful thing I've ever felt, and yet if I don't feel it towards someone and back at me, I don't see the point in existing.

How did it come to this?
 

TheSkaFish

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I want to have a relationship, but nobody I like wants a relationship with me
I created standards of my own, but apparently I don't meet the standards of anybody
I upheld my standards, but some people tell me to lower them
I become as flexible as I can, yet nobody can be flexible for me
I'm constantly being asked to consider settling, yet nobody can settle for me
Women want me to make the first move at all times, none of them would ever approach me

I want to be wanted sexually, but nobody wants to be wanted by me
Appearance shouldn't matter to me, they say, but it matters when it comes to the subject of dating me
I should be supportive towards abused women, but being an abused man I shouldn't expect support or empathy
Gender roles are toxic and should be ignored, but I'm supposed to be "the man" and always do everything to "earn" love
Nobody owes me shit, yet I'm in eternal debt for existing or wanting love
Being nice doesn't get me anything, being an asshole doesn't either
Being me is unacceptable, being someone else is too
I am supposed to "love myself so others love me", but the people telling me this were usually loved by someone else who taught them how to love themselves. I had nobody to teach me.

Love is the most painful thing I've ever felt, and yet if I don't feel it towards someone and back at me, I don't see the point in existing.

How did it come to this?

At some point, I've felt all these things too, I've asked myself all these questions. I hate that it is this way. Another one is that as a guy, you're supposed to be confident and proud, otherwise you won't be able to get anyone to feel the right feelings about you. But you're also supposed to only be confident and proud if you're one of the "superior" guys. Otherwise you're supposed to just resign yourself to "accepting" your place and "accepting" that your life isn't going to be any good, because that's all you were dealt. That, along with the whole "entitlement" argument just for wanting what most people seem to take for granted as a normal life, and for what some guys get in spite of, or even in some cases for, being obnoxious assholes that aren't even good at anything or pleasant people, are things I've especially hated.

The only thing that I've seen consistently is, guys seem to be valued for how much they can succeed/produce/achieve.

I don't like, agree with, or respect that it is this way, I think people should be able to do whatever they want with their own lives as long as it doesn't hurt anyone, and be free to make their lives about whatever they want it to be about, instead of having your life purpose dictated to you, and that purpose is competition. I think that if you want to just like things, you should be free to do so. Sure, try for more if you want to, but only if you want to. I don't think people should HAVE to be competitive or productive or any of that smug condescending holier-than-thou shit. But at the same time, there doesn't seem to be any alternative, at least none that I can think of. The only guys that I've seen get anywhere with women, that aren't actually succeeding/producing/achieving, are bullshit artists. But I think if you're asking these kinds of questions, it means that being a bullshit artist isn't the answer for you. It isn't for me, either. If you don't naturally think that way, being a bullshit artist is a lot of work. It's a lot of work to NOT be "you", to essentially play a character and be in-character at all times, or act in ways that you don't really think or believe. And at the end of the day, all you'd get out of it is being an insincere person.

It's so frustrating to watch these guys that aren't even good at anything, just bullshit their way into relationships by acting stronger and better than they really are by having a macho attitude, cockiness, smooth talk, teasing, and things like that, to cover up a lack of skill, success, and substance. Most people like that seem so fake and corny to me, and their whole personalities are horseshit, not to mention cliche and boring. But they trick people into thinking that they are where the party is. I guess all I can do about that is to remember that being a bullshit artist won't work for me, so I should try not to think about it.

Anyway, it seems like you have to have something you're good at. You have to have a strength it seems, to get people to take you seriously in this world, and take an interest in you. Then, you can have something about you that people find interesting/exciting/entertaining, and you also have your audience, your people that also like that thing or even do it themselves.

Also people seem to respect people that are good at things, and getting someone to respect you seems to be a big part of attraction. It seems to be more powerful, to do more to make you "you", to be good at something, rather than to just like things or be a fan of things, just being a consumer, because the things we think and do are closer to who we really are, than the things we like. We aren't really the things we like. For example with me, I like Star Wars, but there isn't a lot of "me" in that, it's an expression of George Lucas, not of me. It's a bigger part of who he is, than it is of who I am. It's OK to like it, but to get someone to like me I need to have more "me" to like, and to have more "me", I need to have something that I do and come up with, not just liking things that other people do and come up with. You need to get someone interested in YOU, your mind, your story and character - not just the things you LIKE, because lots of other people like that same thing so it doesn't do enough for your uniqueness.

And knowing that you're good at something, gives you confidence that you have at least one thing that you're good at, and that you have something to talk about and to show for yourself. Doing something on a regular, ongoing basis, replenishes your conversation material and keeps you fresh.

It's easier said than done though. I'm talking to myself here, as much as I'm talking to you or anyone else. I wish I'd realized this earlier, but I didn't want to believe that life was still this competitive, I didn't want to believe that people with asshole personalities and worldviews were right (and I still don't), and I didn't want to believe that shallow superficial shit like what you had to offer was more important than your character. And also, thinking and feeling that I wasn't born with enough natural ability to be good at anything, has been something I've struggled with all my life. I still struggle with it to this day.

So I guess that's what I'd say. Try to get good at something, if you can, and hopefully the right person will notice.
That's all I can think of for now.
 
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CenotaphGirl

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I want to have a relationship, but nobody I like wants a relationship with me
I created standards of my own, but apparently I don't meet the standards of anybody
I upheld my standards, but some people tell me to lower them
I become as flexible as I can, yet nobody can be flexible for me
I'm constantly being asked to consider settling, yet nobody can settle for me
Women want me to make the first move at all times, none of them would ever approach me

I want to be wanted sexually, but nobody wants to be wanted by me
Appearance shouldn't matter to me, they say, but it matters when it comes to the subject of dating me
I should be supportive towards abused women, but being an abused man I shouldn't expect support or empathy
Gender roles are toxic and should be ignored, but I'm supposed to be "the man" and always do everything to "earn" love
Nobody owes me shit, yet I'm in eternal debt for existing or wanting love
Being nice doesn't get me anything, being an asshole doesn't either
Being me is unacceptable, being someone else is too
I am supposed to "love myself so others love me", but the people telling me this were usually loved by someone else who taught them how to love themselves. I had nobody to teach me.

Love is the most painful thing I've ever felt, and yet if I don't feel it towards someone and back at me, I don't see the point in existing.

How did it come to this?

Truthfully, being honest… My opinions on this would get me banned 😅 so im gonna shut up… butttt good luck anyway 😇
 

CenotaphGirl

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Why would they get you banned?
Because I just cant side with what society is trying to “force” me to side with 🙃I have strong opinions but they are my honest opinions 😇 I have researched deeply into incels, men, the dating market… I just feel like truthfully the real reason why men are so unhappy today is because… of “unspeakable reason”…
 

Tfranklinyo

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Because I just cant side with what society is trying to “force” me to side with 🙃I have strong opinions but they are my honest opinions 😇 I have researched deeply into incels, men, the dating market… I just feel like truthfully the real reason why men are so unhappy today is because… of “unspeakable reason”…
Would you DM me or message me somewhere else you feel you won't get banned? I'm honestly really curious, but understand if you'd still rather not.
 

TropicalStarfish

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What you are referring to as, 'paradoxes,' are not, in fact, paradoxes at all. They are what are known as, 'double binds.'

Life is full of double binds, or double standards. These are situations where you are damned if you do and you are damned if you don't.

Life is full of things that are unfair.
---------
Although, there can be a sort of comfort in saying, 'woe is me,' 'woe to me, the great sufferer of these most outrageous misfortunes,' 'woe to me, the victim of these most outrageous injustices,' it does nothing to solve them. Instead, you become like the homeless person, who feels entitled to those who are kind enough to give them some spare change, and becomes outraged by those who refuse an act of charity.

When you live life that way, you offend those who would show you compassion, and you make yourself a bigger target for those who would not.

In my experience, those that are in great despair, and wounded, are very likely to succumb to that kind of thinking. It probably manifests itself in many different ways; but, I'm speaking strictly to the kind of way in which it creeps into a mind, fogged up, with despair.

The best I've been able to figure out, when one finds themselves in such a situation, is to seek solitude. For me, that is paradoxical, because when one is in great despair, great loneliness, and in need of companionship, the first instinct is a desire to reach out and connect or hope some one else connects with you. Perhaps one does not need to go live alone in the woods for 15 years, to come out of the other side, renewed; but, perhaps...

...Perhaps one should take very special care to cultivate contemplative and observant stillness, studious, and active solitude, so as to both best exploit the benefits solitude can offer, as well as learn to make the most of, to savor, the limited social interactions one would seek to improve.

That's the best I can think of, anyway, on that matter.
---------
So, you have listed no paradoxes here! That's the good news. The bad news is, there are double-binds in life. Some experience a lot of them, some not so much. And it is unfair. The good-news is, however, according to at least to a few philosophical traditions; we can change our perspective.

We must change the things we can, and come to accept that which we can not change. And the tough part is figuring out which is which.

...that's the best I can offer.
---------
Culturally speaking, culture gives us mixed messages up the wazoo, and has been doing so for some time. In example: party hard and fuck education and authority, but make sure to show up to work on time and go to college to get a better job. Or: you are beautiful just the way you are, but you aren't beautiful unless you look this way, act this way, and buy this stuff.

As far as THAT stuff goes, we all need to get a bit angry and try to change those things; but, I suspect, because we are human and like to lie to ourselves (denial), we'd just find new ways of sending ourselves mixed messages, after abolishing the old ones.

And I think the only solution to THAT problem, is for us, as individuals, and as a collective, is to 'know ourselves, at least a bit better...'

Some folks are quite adept at hearing mixed messages. These are the types that will party on the weekends in college, then get good marks and land a high paying job in 5 years time. These are the types that will not obsess over their looks; but, still manage to maintain swagger or an attractive appeal.

I'm not one of those folks. I just hear bullshit, and get uselessly frustrated by it, mostly...
 
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CenotaphGirl

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😭 Telling me I don't want to know only makes me want to know more. 😁
Lool you’ll be really disappointed anyway its no clever reason its just stating the obvious but that seems to also be against the law these days 🙃


What you are referring to as, 'paradoxes,' are not, in fact, paradoxes at all. They are what are known as, 'double binds.'

Life is full of double binds, or double standards. These are situations where you are damned if you do and you are damned if you don't.

Life is full of things that are unfair.

Although, there can be a sort of comfort in saying, 'woe is me,' 'woe to me, the great sufferer of these most outrageous misfortunes,' 'woe to me, the victim of these most outrageous injustices,' it does nothing to solve them. Instead, you become like the homeless person, who feels entitled to those who are kind enough to give them some spare change, and becomes outraged by those who refuse an act of charity.

When you live life that way, you offend those who would show you compassion, and you make yourself a bigger target for those who would not.

In my experience, those that are in great despair, and wounded, are very likely to succumb to that kind of thinking. It probably manifests itself in many different ways; but, I'm speaking strictly to the kind of way in which it creeps into a mind, fogged up, with despair.

The best I've been able to figure out, when one finds themselves in such a situation, is to seek solitude. For me, that is paradoxical, because when one is in great despair, great loneliness, and in need of companionship, the first instinct is a desire to reach out and connect or hope some one else connects with you. Perhaps one does not need to go live alone in the woods for 15 years, to come out of the other side, renewed; but, perhaps...

...Perhaps one should take very special care to cultivate contemplative and observant stillness, studious, and active solitude, so as to both best exploit the benefits solitude can offer, as well as learn to make the most of, to savor, the limited social interactions one would seek to improve.

That's the best I can think of, anyway.

So, you have listed no paradoxes here! That's the good news. The bad news is, there are double-binds in life. Some experience a lot of them, some not so much. And it is unfair. The good-news is, however, is, according at least to a few philosophical traditions, we can change our perspective.

We must change the things we can, and come to accept that which we can not change. And the tough part is figuring out which is which.

...that's the best I can offer.

Culturally speaking, culture gives us mixed messages up the wazoo, and has been doing so for some time. In example: party hard and fuck education and authority, but make sure to show up to work on time and go to college to get a better job. Or: you are beautiful just the way you are, but you aren't beautiful unless you look this way, act this way, and buy this stuff.

As far as THAT stuff goes, we all need to get a bit angry and try to change those things; but, I suspect, because we are human and like to lie to ourselves (denial), we'd just find new ways of sending ourselves mixed messages, after abolishing the old ones.

And I think the only solution to THAT problem, is for us, as individuals, and as a collective, to 'know ourselves better...'
You are wise star fish! That homeless analogy was very thought provoking.
 

ardour

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What you are referring to as, 'paradoxes,' are not, in fact, paradoxes at all. They are what are known as, 'double binds.'

Life is full of double binds, or double standards. These are situations where you are damned if you do and you are damned if you don't.
They're just double standards.

It makes sense when you realize the breakdown of traditionalism really only relates to restrictions previously placed upon women. None of this post-gender utopia stuff was meant to apply to straight cismales. Their gender role remains the same as it always has been.
 
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CenotaphGirl

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They're just double standards.

It makes sense when you realize the breakdown of traditionalism really only relates to restrictions previously placed upon women. None of this post-gender utopia stuff was meant to apply to straight cismales. Their gender role remains the same as it always has been.
Can’t agree more… and when I say things like this im “trolling” 🤯😅 okay okay I admit you word it nicer than I can… The main issue is honestly I dont think a lot of “straight cisfemales” are getting what they want either but prehaps im saying too much already 🙊 i’ll pacify myself justtt incase because I cant touch on this topic and lie like some other women can… 🙃
 

TropicalStarfish

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They're just double standards.

It makes sense when you realize the breakdown of traditionalism really only relates to restrictions previously placed upon women. None of this post-gender utopia stuff was meant to apply to straight cismales. Their gender role remains the same as it always has been.
An example of a double standard, is when some one wants you to pay for their meal, and then thank them for the privilege.

An example of a double bind is when you want companionship, but can't find any and become resentful; and because you can't find any, your resentment and despair hinder you further, as to possible opportunities for companionship.

An example of a paradox is whether or not things are deterministic or if there is free will. (I think...)

And an example of a non-sequitur is parrots singing.

Anywho...
 
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ardour

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An example of a double standard, is when some one wants you to pay for their meal, and then thank them for the privilege.

An example of a double bind is when you want companionship, but can't find any and become resentful; and because you can't find any, your resentment and despair hinder you further, as to possible opportunities for companionship.

An example of a paradox is whether or not things are deterministic or if there is free will. (I think...)

And an example of a non-sequitur is parrots singing.

Anywho...

Thanks for clearing that up.
 

TropicalStarfish

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Thanks for clearing that up.
I'm sure you already understood; but, it's not just double standards. Double binds can be harrowingly torturous.

I also don't see any reason to conflate gender studies with simply being painfully alone, dejected, and having an outlook of despair when one looks out at the horizon from the hill of a life half lived. I at least would prefer to watch paint dry, myself, given a choice between the two...

I apologize if I offended you; but, I do believe there are double binds present in the OP's situation.

I know I deal with them, at least.

Take care..
 
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