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LostintheBardo

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Enpatsu No Shakugan said:
LostintheBardo said:
Enpatsu No Shakugan said:
LostintheBardo said:
All drugs should be legalized in my opinion or at least decriminalized. Whether you like it or not, the war on drugs approach has never succeeded anywhere.


Enpatsu No Shakugan said:
No. I know it's harmless and has some effects, but I just don't care for it. I remember being annoyed when this was only being being rallied for by obvious stoners, and they were hamming up "effects" and all that. I just wanted to say, "Come on, you just want to get high, stop bullshitting."

So, no.

That is a really stupid reason to be against legalization of something just because you "don't care for it." People shouldn't have to fear ending up with a criminal record (or sent to prison in a minority of cases) just for something that is far less harmful than Alcohol. Also, legalization isn't proven to cause a jump in consumption.

You do also realize that those "stoners" you are talking about can usually get high regardless right?



I don't have strong preferences either way, but why would I ever want to cater to people I don't like and give them what they want?



Um, maybe in recognition of the fact that those people in the very least probably don't deserve to be criminalized on such a basis? For what it's worth, I'm not much a fan of anime, I certainly don't think the people who do like it should have to watch it in secret to avoid legal prosecution of any kind.


I'd like to add that Cannabis has helped me to come out of a really self-destructive phase of my life and that I think I would have ruined my entire 20s (I've just turned 28) if I hadn't got into it. I'm in a much healthier mindset nowadays and am focused on what matters in life. Just another perspective to consider.




Nice strawman.

Why do you care so much about my opinion anyway? Just disagree and move on. Or did you want this entire topic to just be an echo-chamber for you?

And wow, so because you needed to use drugs to ease your life, that makes it viable and okay for everyone else? Such a sound and riveting argument.
Good for you. It doesn't apply to me. And in fact, I'd recommend just about any other solution to digging oneself out of that predicament than what you chose. What other treatments did you try, by chance, or even consider? You seem to put way too much faith in that this solution was literally the only one that could've possibly worked.
I doubt that, nor do I find it a sound argument for your pro-stance whatsoever.




Reading comprehension apparently isn't your strength because I made it clear that I mentioned my personal example  as another perspective, I did not say I was using it as an argument for or against legalization.

Maybe I care to respond because I'm sick of the stupid comments that always get thrown around in debates like this and yours were a particularly sad example of that. And someone whose main argument against legalization is that they "don't care for it" doesn't really have any credibility to define what is or isn't a compelling argument on anything for that matter.

"You seem to put way too much faith in that this solution was literally the only one that could've possibly worked."

You really should think more carefully about what a strawman is before you accuse anyone else of making use of one because this is a perfect example of one from your end. Nowhere did I say that it was the only solution, just the one that happened to work at the time. And I wasn't "trying" any other treatment at the time because I did not realize the predicament I was actually in until I was forced to confront it from said usage. Could have there been other options? I don't know and I don't see why it matters at this point. And what I'm referring to had nothing to do with "Cannabis easing my life" (again, amazing how much you assume about something you know nothing about) but how it made me confront a lot of aspects about myself that I didn't like. This was actually one of the most challenging experiences of my life, far from making it easy.

It's interesting to note that you say you'd recommend just about any solution above the one I chose and yet you do not give a reason as to why you would. What for instance would make you think it's a worse alternative to a large number of pharmaceuticals, many of which can have quite serious side effects? I suspect the reason for your vagueness is that you don't actually have anything specific about what it is you think is apparently so harmful about Cannabis. I would never say it's harmless or that it should be smoked everyday but the way you write makes it sound like your argument is more based on prejudice than anything else. It's funny how people who have never got into it seem to be the most arrogant about it.

I'm perfectly fine with it if you don't find my personal experience as a compelling reason for legalization as I've already given plenty of those in my preceding comments, none of which you've refuted. Portugal's decriminalization policy towards all drugs also speaks for itself, they used to have the highest overdose rates of any country in the EU and now they have the lowest.
 

TheRealCallie

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^^Yes, opiate addiction is completely out of control. And gee, that shit is legal. Quite honestly, I think it will be legalized fully and everywhere as soon as the government figures out how to tax the hell out of it and put a bunch of nasty chemicals in it like they did with cigarettes.
 

Chief broom

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One of the reasons I moved to the highlands is that I had a drug dealer move in next door to me...it was hell. The guy sold cannabis mainly with speed/coke when the opportunity arose. I was in constant war with them as they had a ****off attitude nothing like the easy going smokers of yesteryear- they would block my car so I couldn't get out and when I told someone to move it would often result in abuse/threats and the like. It escalated to my car and motorcycle tyres getting knifed and a ramping up of intimidation- I gave up in the end and got the hell out.
I can only answer the legalisation question from a personal viewpoint as how it could possibly effect me in the future- not from a human rights kind of way. In my younger days everyone I knew smoked including myself and ive tried everything on the chemical menu. I do understand the forward looking approach in regard to opiates and seems the way to go but would I want to see cannabis legalised....nope. Ive been through hell and it would be a nightmare if I found a cottage to live in and the croft next door started up a cannabis operation...I feel that that police turn a blind eye to most smokers when theres no hassle being caused so it wont prevent users having a joint. If a group of users are causing grief in there neighbourhood they have legal leverage to come down on them. Im all for live and let live and never imagined I would be on the anti side but having gone through what I did I never want to again.
 

LostintheBardo

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Chief broom said:
One of the reasons I moved to the highlands is that I had a drug dealer move in next door to me...it was hell. The guy sold cannabis mainly with speed/coke when the opportunity arose. I was in constant war with them as they had a ****off attitude nothing like the easy going smokers of yesteryear- they would block my car so I couldn't get out and when I told someone to move it would often result in abuse/threats and the like. It escalated to my car and motorcycle tyres getting knifed and a ramping up of intimidation- I gave up in the end and got the hell out.
I can only answer the legalisation question from a personal viewpoint as how it could possibly effect me in the future- not from a human rights kind of way. In my younger days everyone I knew smoked including myself and ive tried everything on the chemical menu. I do understand the forward looking approach in regard to opiates and seems the way to go but would I want to see cannabis legalised....nope. Ive been through hell and it would be a nightmare if I found a cottage to live in and the croft next door started up a cannabis operation...I feel that that police turn a blind eye to most smokers when theres no hassle being caused so it wont prevent users having a joint. If a group of users are causing grief in there neighbourhood they have legal leverage to come down on them. Im all for live and let live and never imagined I would be on the anti side but having gone through what I did I never want to again.

Wouldn't logic dictate that legalization would mean that people would probably be buying from regulated companies and not people like the guy you had to deal with? I mean a big benefit of legalization vs decriminalization is it takes the supply away from people like that and I'm guessing that there would be legislation to prevent people selling in residential zones. So legalization might have actually prevented you going through what you did.

Also, would it make you feel better if you knew that legalization probably wouldn't lead to an increase in problematic usage?

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...izing-marijuana-increase-its-use-probably-not
 

IncolaVacui

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There's a social stigma about smoking and buying from a dealer these days that pretty much every smoker I know doesn't want to have to deal with rather they're introverted or extroverted. Nobody wants to hang out with the people they're buying from usually. Most of the time, they kind of just want to have a business transaction: You give me the marijuana, I give you the money and go home.

Now on the rare occasion, there ARE some weed dealers that you might want to smoke with and hang out with while high, but that's kind of a case-by-case sort of a thing and most people I know that smoke (which is a lot of fucking people...I used to work in the wholesale "tobacco" industry...I know a thing or two about a thing or two on the subject) typically don't want to deal with that.

If they legalized it, that would clear the air of that concern and decriminalize it and most people would just buy from dispensaries instead and the amount of people that sold weed on the streets would drop, and the amount of people that got arrested for crimes relating to weed would be reduced.

As for marijuana being a gateway drug?
Okay yes, it is a gateway drug.

HOWEVER, if you're not a fucking idiot, you don't get wrapped up in "hard drugs" like cocaine, meth, heroin, opiates, and the like.

Anybody can put the ganja down and walk away from it for a bit. It costs you physically NOTHING to stop smoking so much and stop smoking for a while.
But if you cold turkey cut "hard drugs" there's actually a high probable chance that it will literally kill you.

So:
Is marijuana addictive?

Physically? No.
Psychologically? Yes, it can be. It isn't always, but it definitely can be.

Uppers, opiates, and barbiturates never interested me. I never even gave most of them a chance, because of the risk involved relating to addiction and also because I was born with a heart condition so stimulants have a decent chance of accidentally giving me a heart attack (I've had a heart attack before from something totally unrelated to drugs. It was ruled out as an anomaly medically, and I've recovered, but holy fucking shit did that hurt like a motherfucker).

Psychedelics however, I did like.
I honestly did LSD before I ever smoked weed.
I'm 30. My longest relationship was 8 years long, and we broke up when I was 24.
She was once wildly creative, similarly to how I am, she was both an opera singer (mezzo-soprano in range) and a painter of abstract art...
Acid was initially her idea, and I kind of only ran with it because I was young, dumb, and in love.
But what I found on my acid trip was kind of a spiritual awakening that sort of centered much of my chaos and trauma as a person.

Again, all things under moderation here, I mean you can't go buck wild and just be out and about in public, high as Hell and tripping balls, that's kind of not the point or proper historical usage of psychoactives. I have a very...Native American, kind of almost tribal-esque style, Shamanistic approach to marijuana and psychedelics...

It's something I take very seriously and that I find to be a very personal experience and as such, I kind of am much more inclined to fall into myself, rather than to be within the consorts of other people.

I went through my time period of trying to mingle the two worlds together but...I discovered that I really don't like being in that kind of a state and around other people. My psychedelic trips, I will only ever talk to people I am completely comfortable with while I'm tripping or only people who I trust won't hit me with more info or feeling than I can handle. I do this as a harm reduction technique and practice because when you're on psychedelics: Whatever you experience, you are not going to ever forget experiencing, or at least, specifically if you're on an LSD trip.

I'm definitely way more thinky than feely. I've only ever had one or two bad acid trips, but all three times I've tried shrooms I ended up crying and panicking and trying to contact friends to calm me down. Sssooo, I don't really touch those anymore, at least not without someone to trip sit me. I don't like being emotionally vulnerable, that honestly scares me more than the idea of actually dying a violent and agonizing death.

Marijuana though? Mellows me out. Similarly to how LSD did. Because I did LSD first, I always approach smoking marijuana from that same standpoint. I don't really consider it a vice, even though it can sneak its way into being a vice that I later have to pry myself out of (I'm actually pretty good about doing that)...Has anybody here ever seen the movie Immortal Beloved??

Immortal Beloved is roughly based on the life of Ludwig Van Beethoven who is, my favorite classical composer.  I first saw this movie when I was about 9 years old. It's part of what made me fall in love with music and made me want to pursue music. The ending scene is the premiere of Beethoven's 9th Symphony, which he composed over the later years of his life whilst going deaf.  Historically, it was one of his last performances as his career and reputation had been going quite down until then. Reportedly to historical accuracy: Beethoven's 9th Symphony (of which from "Ode To Joy" came from)
 was the first musical piece in Symphony form that utilized a choir and round. Until then, that had never been done before. By the time of the premier, Beethoven was completely deaf as both the composer and the conductor of the piece. He actually had to be tapped on the shoulder and turned around to see the standing ovation of the entire theater of which he performed it in.

I have watched the dramatized movie of Immortal Beloved while stoned and that ending scene, because of what I know about the composers life and the way that it's artistically portrayed in that movie, is one of the most beautiful things that I have ever seen in film. Rather high or sober.

But while when I watched this, I was taken aback to my childhood, to aspects of my personal life that made me like the film and drew me to pursue music in the first place. Because of marijuana and because of that film I was able to sort or relive an earlier artistic inspiration that gives me drive as an artist.
 

Chief broom

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Hi LostintheBardo I would prefer people got into meditation rather than smoking so asking me in what way it finds it way to the end user I find difficult to compute. As I mentioned previously im only interested in how it might effect me if legalised and theres no way of knowing [for sure] what would happen ie small dealers being put out of business etc
I feel that that those that want to smoke can at present with little risk- not a problem. Ive experienced the plus side of cannabis use but its not without problems, my brother was a heavy user and became psychotic and ended up in hospital. He attempted suicide and after a brief stay in a psychiatric ward he disappeared and I never saw him again. This probably happened because of the modern super strength variety he was using/cultivating- imho these cultivars aren't good.
 

Cleanairfilter

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Yes, it should be legal in order that it should be regulated. One thing I am sure of is that cannabis is not good for developing brains. I started smoking cannabis when I was much too young and it damaged my mental health. The reason I smoked cannabis at that age is because it was easier to get hold of than alcohol. Although I suppose if you did manage to stop children from getting hold of cannabis they might just start taking acid instead...
 

TheRealCallie

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Cleanairfilter said:
Yes, it should be legal in order that it should be regulated. One thing I am sure of is that cannabis is not good for developing brains. I started smoking cannabis when I was much too young and it damaged my mental health. The reason I smoked cannabis at that age is because it was easier to get hold of than alcohol. Although I suppose if you did manage to stop children from getting hold of cannabis they might just start taking acid instead...

I was smoking weed at 14 and drinking by age 13 and my mental health is fine, so I'm not sure that's a good argument.  There is a lot of health professionals that claim it damages brain cells and I suppose if you smoke a shit ton it might be true, but I think it's just a scare tactic.  Just my opinion, of course.
 

Cleanairfilter

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Fair enough. I think some of us are just predisposed towards mental health problems and cannabis is the thing that pushes us over the edge.
 

Danielle

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Its legal in my State, and think it should be legal everywhere. Less of a chance of buying some shady stuff off a street dealer... also, no one has ever died from weed, and it doesn't have the addictive qualities that booze or hard drugs do. Just treat it the way you would alcohol and everything will be fine, I think.
 
J

Joturbo

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Makes you wonder why it was banned in the 1920's.Hope it's medicinal usage is legalised at least in the UK.But as someone whose never touched drugs except alcohol,I'm still a bit concerned about driving after my Christmas lunch with a car full of people after having smoked a splith.How does it effect your reactions ...is it simalar to a glass of wine or a beer
..I need educating before I smoke my first one🤔

Also like I'm 13 stone ,does it have the same effect as someone 8 stone smoking it.When my boy hits university and he's offered a splith or say a can of beer which is quicker to get high on , which one is consumed quicker .

Why do I have problems with legalization

who knows!!

And like I'm sitting in a room drinking a beer or smoking a splith with my grandkid , not that I've done it , but which one will affect said kid more

I'm interested in the answers

And why now have they released the news that the actor Tony Booth smoked it in no.10 Downing street

The fact is I've seen how it messed up my daughter's life at 15 and those of her friends and that as a parent concerns me.
I
 

TheRealCallie

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As for using it for medicinal purposes, they can extract the THC so it doesn't get your high. You can also looking into CBD oil, which has the same benefits.
 

TheSkaFish

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I know old thread is old, and I haven't actually smoked weed in a long time - 10 years, in fact. But I'm pro-legalization. I feel like it is harmless enough, and as long as it doesn't affect anyone outside the individual deciding to use it, it is their choice.

I don't feel the same way about hard drugs, like coke, meth, or heroin. I feel like those cause deeper, more dangerous societal problems. But weed is not, and should not, be considered in the same category. I've always felt it was more like alcohol than hard drugs.


Some of these anti-weed arguments though, are just straight-up dumb. They aren't even real, logical reasons based on fact, but rather they're just irrational personal biases.

"Even though it's relatively harmless, weed should be illegal FOR EVERYONE, just because I personally don't like it."

Or, you could, you know - just keep on not smoking it yourself, and let other people do what they want as long as it doesn't negatively affect you, and mind your own damn business and not try to restrict people's personal freedoms for your own selfish nonsense.

"I don't have strong preferences either way, but why would I ever want to cater to people I don't like and give them what they want?"

In other words:

"I don't really care, it has nothing to do with me, I don't have or care to have an informed opinion - I just want the law to fuck over people I don't like."

What an enlightened, mature, reasonable, intelligent point of view.

Democracy isn't about what or who you personally like or don't like, and it certainly isn't about preventing people you don't like from getting what they want, just out of childishness, pettiness, and spite. It's about ensuring fair and just treatment for all citizens, keeping enough rule of law to have reliable order but giving people enough personal freedom to live their own lives the way they see fit, as long as it doesn't impose on anyone else's freedoms.


It goes to show that just because you use old-timey phrases and take a pedantic tone, doesn't mean you're actually saying anything intellectual.
 
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sunflowergirl1306

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They always say that pot is good for people to smoke,especially people that have cancer and other health problems,my mom's boyfriend's father had cancer,he was in the hospital and it really helped him a lot,before he died.
 

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