Freedom of speech and offending people

[bleed_the_freak]

I am a precious snowflake and should be protected from offence at all costs, even the loss of freedom of speech for others.

*cough*

the argument in a nutshell is "cetain types of   speech should be outlawwed because it re-enforces a culture of violence and discrimination against LGBT/minorities, etc."

You don't need to quote me to make an argument. I said nothing about LGBT or minority rights, and I didn't direct my comment at you.

Maybe thoughtlessly quoting others makes them feel threatened by violence and discrimination too?

EDIT: For all you know, I could be a gay black woman. Don't wear your assumptions so obviously.

 

[SofiasMami]

Nobody - no matter what "side" they're on - is entitled to be protected from hearing blowback or criticism of their opinions. If you need to run to your safe space with a blankie when you hear criticism or opposing views, that tells me what you said wasn't intellectually substantive to begin with.

 

[ardour]

I am a precious snowflake and should be protected from offence at all costs, even the loss of freedom of speech for others.

*cough*

the argument in a nutshell is "cetain types of   speech should be outlawwed because it re-enforces a culture of violence and discrimination against LGBT/minorities, etc."

You don't need to quote me to make an argument. I said nothing about LGBT or minority rights, and I didn't direct my comment at you.

Maybe thoughtlessly quoting others makes them feel threatened by violence and discrimination too?

EDIT: For all you know, I could be a gay black woman. Don't wear your assumptions so obviously.

Er.... Calm down.  It was obvious that I was summarizing the reasoning often used by progressives without implying that I agreed with it.

It's relevant to your post because you assumed it was based entirely on personal offence taken, hurt feels, etc.. While that's probably a big part of it, the main thrust of their argument is that it  censorship "protects the vulnerable". (I'd only agree in relation to speech that directly incites violence, which is already illegal)

 

[bleed_the_freak]

I'm so triggered that my safe space (this thread) has been violated by others forcing their views on me.

lol

No worries, Ardour

 

[VanillaCreme]

Nobody - no matter what "side" they're on - is entitled to be protected from hearing blowback or criticism of their opinions. If you need to run to your safe space with a blankie when you hear criticism or opposing views, that tells me what you said wasn't intellectually substantive to begin with.

If only some folks actually took in this advice. I go with what my favorite comedian, Nick Di Paolo, says. "No one has the right to not be offended."

 

[user 139760]

LOL I personally love an opinion different from mine. It's the only way to think straight. I can argue my point till the cows crow (or some other cute cultural expression to that effect) but I find that when two opposite views clash, the coolest option is probably somewhere down the middle.
That being said, offending people in my case is usually hard. I learned how to present an argument an a question to someone that not only challenges his views, but give him a chance to explain it. I can also usually see where someone comes from. For example, I'm pretty far from right-leaning conservative people. Yet I have no trouble in seeing their line of thinking and why. I don't agree, but I respect their opinion and their right to it.
I think it's all about respect. Seems to me the web has taught people to feel validated instead of just respecting someone, or treating them like real people.
Which we all are, being our screens. That should be a strenght in fact, this diversity of all of us.

 

[TheSkaFish]

I think freedom of speech is a complex issue for which there's no easy answer. On the one hand, total freedom of speech gives you no limit to what you can say, and it's a pretty forward mindset. Unfortunately, it's not that simple because while freedom of speech allows for difference of opinion and expressing our true selves, it also gives a platform to hateful, negative people to push their agenda.

I also feel like while you might not be able to force anyone to respect you, there is such a thing as common courtesy and they are different. Respect, I feel, is admiration - I respect David Gilmour's ability to play guitar. I admire it. However, common courtesy is just being decent to the people you meet. Not going out of your way to start problems with people. Causing as little pain as possible. Just being kind. I do feel like common decency has been taking a hit lately on all sides. This is where I disagree with those who say that people need to stop being whiners, etc. For example, there are certain words I don't like, I don't appreciate being called them because it angers me intensely. I don't think it's asking too much of a person to say, hey, we might not agree but could you not say that, because it really angers me, for whatever reason. I do believe that words can cause emotional damage, and that if someone says hey don't call me that, it upsets me, they mean it. It's asking not for respect, not admiration, but for common courtesy. I feel that whether or not something is offensive, or whether something is criticism or an insult, is up to the recipient, especially if someone repeatedly says don't say that, I find it offensive. I feel like too many people point to freedom of speech just to excuse that they go out of their way to start problems. Just because someone has that freedom, doesn't mean they should abuse it.

But that's hard to enforce because it comes back to freedom of speech - how much is too much, and if one person gets it why can't everyone, and so on. It's not easy. But I think a little common courtesy goes a long way. It's mature to not let yourself be affected by things people say that we don't like, but I think it's even more mature to realize that even though we have freedom of speech, there are some things that we just shouldn't say because it's neither nice nor necessary. In the past, niceness might have been a luxury in a harsh, unforgiving world. But I think as the world gets safer and we become more understanding, I think we can afford to be nicer, so we should. There are some things I feel the government should censor, like hate speech or things that are clearly intended to incite violence. But mostly, I think we should have freedom of speech, with the idea that we should know enough about right or wrong to censor ourselves.

 

[DarkSelene]

Freedom of speech should be part of civil liberties, and it's slowly becoming legislated hell in a lot of countries around the west - look at Canada in the spotlight with their social justice tribunals and their volatile laws that are totally open for judicial interpretation... it's dangerous to put power in the hands of people that want reparations for their emotions.

 

[ardour]

 There are some things I feel the government should censor, like hate speech or things that are clearly intended to incite violence.  But mostly, I think we should have freedom of speech, with the idea that we should know enough about right or wrong to censor ourselves.

Common courtesy in everyday situations is something everyone should consider, however it is given voluntarily. The problem arises in trying to define the boundaries of hate speech beyond  instances of inciting criminal acts.
For example, religious conservatives condemning relationships outside of heterosexual marriage as sinful would be considered hate speech by many supporting those laws. This would obviously interfere with  freedom of expression and freedom of religion. "You don't have the freedom to make demeaning, hateful comments about entire groups" etc. is a statement I often hear.

 

[Paraiyar]

I am a precious snowflake and should be protected from offence at all costs, even the loss of freedom of speech for others.

*cough*

the argument in a nutshell is "cetain types of   speech should be outlawwed because it re-enforces a culture of violence and discrimination against LGBT/minorities, etc."

You don't need to quote me to make an argument. I said nothing about LGBT or minority rights, and I didn't direct my comment at you.

Maybe thoughtlessly quoting others makes them feel threatened by violence and discrimination too?

EDIT: For all you know, I could be a gay black woman. Don't wear your assumptions so obviously.

Hugh Mungus what? Hugh Mungus what?

 

[VanillaCreme]

Freedom of speech should be part of civil liberties, and it's slowly becoming legislated hell in a lot of countries around the west - look at Canada in the spotlight with their social justice tribunals and their volatile laws that are totally open for judicial interpretation... it's dangerous to put power in the hands of people that want reparations for their emotions.

I couldn't agree more.

 

[Wayfarer]

Thank you all for participating. Some comments really opened up points of view I had not been thinking about much.

 

[user 139760]

Did you just assume the government's gender?

Well, considering how dirty, lying, cheating, underhanded, money-grubbing and backstabbing all governements are, I think it's safe to say it's probably a man.
If it were a woman, it would at least play mommy with us more often instead of trying to steal all our money ;-)

 

[Earth2Astral]

Misogyny offends me,Racism offends me,homophobia offends me, in fact, any attitude that indicates that one group of people is better than another for whatever reason(usually exclusive thus invalid)and deserve to be treated differently,THIS OFFENDS ME ! Small minded near sighted idiots who slaughter th most majestic of creatures,our whales and dolphins THEY OFFEND!!! And are thus not welcome at my table. Equal rights for all people,irrespective of race or creed, or colour or sex, and more respect to the animal kingdom and this ball we live on as parasites. We can be consciously parasitic at the leadt

 

[Jently]

Misogyny offends me,Racism offends me,homophobia offends me, in fact, any attitude that indicates that one group of people is better than another for whatever reason(usually exclusive thus invalid)and deserve to be treated differently,THIS OFFENDS ME ! Small minded near sighted idiots who slaughter th most majestic of creatures,our whales and dolphins THEY OFFEND!!! And are thus not welcome at my table. Equal rights for all people,irrespective of race or creed, or colour or sex, and more respect to the animal kingdom and this ball we live on as parasites. We can be consciously parasitic at the leadt

Does that include people that eat the billions of animals bred to sate their choice to be carnivores I wonder?

 

[VanillaCreme]

Misogyny offends me,Racism offends me,homophobia offends me, in fact, any attitude that indicates that one group of people is better than another for whatever reason(usually exclusive thus invalid)and deserve to be treated differently,THIS OFFENDS ME ! Small minded near sighted idiots who slaughter th most majestic of creatures,our whales and dolphins THEY OFFEND!!! And are thus not welcome at my table. Equal rights for all people,irrespective of race or creed, or colour or sex, and more respect to the animal kingdom and this ball we live on as parasites. We can be consciously parasitic at the leadt

The thing about it is, people have the right to be racist and homophobic and whatnot. A lot of folks aren't because morals and all, and it's senseless to hate someone for anything like that when you could just leave them alone. But morals aside and people thinking it's wrong aside, people do have that choice. It doesn't matter if someone thinks it's wrong to be prejudice. None of us have the right to tell someone how to be.

 

[Drew]

The thing about it is, people have the right to be racist and homophobic and whatnot...But morals aside and people thinking it's wrong aside, people do have that choice. It doesn't matter if someone thinks it's wrong to be prejudice. None of us have the right to tell someone how to be.

Well said VC. I am a firm believer in free speech, even if I hate what is being said. (To me, flag burning is probably the worst thing someone can do and as much as I hate that act and would love to "punch them in the face", but it is their right and I won't touch them, no matter how much I would want to.)