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ardour

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Your posts often include naive wishes that "the government" do something to fix problems. Government is nothing but a gang of thugs, a racket. They extort from the productive, keep a large slice for themselves and distribute the rest to the unworthy.
Libertarian foolery full of contradictions. Advocating both slavery and a laissez faire capitalist idea of freedom.

What are corporate "slave owners" doing in that case if not extorting labour out of the disadvantaged and the poor of the developing world, interactions that is anything but "free."

Government and unions are the reason you enjoy reasonable working conditions in the west, and, if you're outside the US, universal healthcare, tertiary education.

Edit: now your arguing for eugenics. Why is that not surprising.
 
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Diogenes

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Libertarian foolery full of contradictions. Advocating both slavery and a laissez faire capitalist idea of freedom.

What are corporate "slave owners" doing in that case if not extorting labour out of the disadvantaged and the poor of the developing world, interactions that is anything but "free."

Government and unions are the reason you enjoy reasonable working conditions in the west, and, if you're outside the US, universal healthcare, tertiary education.

Edit: now your arguing for eugenics. Why is that not surprising.

I'd say you're confused, but you're just dishonest. I never advocated for slavery, I only pointed out that it is, factually, the basis for what we call the benefits of civilization. I did not say it was inevitable or without alternative.

I don't need a label to observe the common sense fact that governments that extort are no better than gang thugs. Taxes are theft, and unnecessary.

Governments and unions produce no benefits, they are simply parasites.

I am also not "arguing" for eugenics. I'm simply pointing out facts and asking questions.
However, for the record, why would you oppose humanity choosing to evolve? Why would you favor the brutal alternatives: war, famine, poverty, pollution and disease?
 

ardour

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I'd say you're confused, but you're just dishonest. I never advocated for slavery, I only pointed out that it is, factually, the basis for what we call the benefits of civilization. I did not say it was inevitable or without alternative.

I don't need a label to observe the common sense fact that governments that extort are no better than gang thugs. Taxes are theft, and unnecessary.

Governments and unions produce no benefits, they are simply parasites.

I am also not "arguing" for eugenics. I'm simply pointing out facts and asking questions.
However, for the record, why would you oppose humanity choosing to evolve? Why would you favor the brutal alternatives: war, famine, poverty, pollution and disease?
Didn't you just make a case for arranged marriage elsewhere. Wouldn't that give low status men access to women which they shouldn't have in a truly competitive environment where men kill each other off? Or would this be high status pairings, i.e. eugenics, which would have to be mandated by the state.

Perhaps we should hand society over to likes of Elon, who just bought an $11 billion dollar company for 44 billion, fired most of the engineers and broke his own product.
 
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Diogenes

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Didn't you just make a case for arranged marriage elsewhere. Wouldn't that give low status men access to women which they shouldn't have in a truly competitive environment where men kill each other off? Or would this be high status pairings, i.e. eugenics, which would have to be mandated by the state.

Perhaps we should hand society over to likes of Elon, who just bought an $11 billion dollar company for 44 billion, fired most of the engineers and broke his own product.

Your logic is flawed. What family leader would agree to give his daughter to a low status man?

Since current relationship modes are largely a disaster, what do you propose? Or are you just a snide with nothing constructive to offer?

What is wrong with trying to improve the human race? Why would you want people to remain flawed

Is it because weak people will believe that if they accept your slave collar, you'll steal form the rich and give them goodies, as if they were children or animals?

Do you oppose freedom? Do you oppose private property?
Anyone is free not to invest in Musk or to work for him.
A job is the property of an employer. Unless there is a contract otherwise, no one is "owed" a job. If Musk makes errors, someone else can and will take his place when he fails. So what?
 

ardour

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Your logic is flawed. What family leader would agree to give his daughter to a low status man?

Since current relationship modes are largely a disaster, what do you propose? Or are you just a snide with nothing constructive to offer?

What is wrong with trying to improve the human race? Why would you want people to remain flawed

Is it because weak people will believe that if they accept your slave collar, you'll steal form the rich and give them goodies, as if they were children or animals?

Do you oppose freedom? Do you oppose private property?
Anyone is free not to invest in Musk or to work for him.
A job is the property of an employer. Unless there is a contract otherwise, no one is "owed" a job. If Musk makes errors, someone else can and will take his place when he fails. So what?
Isn't it obvious there aren't enough high status men to go around...so polygamy?

The belief that billionaires earn their wealth through hard work involves an almost clownish level of credulity. Take off the ideological blinkers, travel to Europe, even Canada, Australia, any social democracy with high standards of living.
 
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TheSkaFish

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Nature doesn't care whether you "believe in it" or not. Evolution is a fact, and the fact is, nature intends there to be very few males, for males to compete and literally kill each other off for the privilege of breeding the mass of females.

Every benefit you enjoy in life, including the device you are reading this on, is the result of cut throat competition. Men may not realize they are inventing or working in order to kill off other man and gain access to all the pussy, but that is the essential reality of ambition, and it benefits humanity as a whole. Suffering of males is the basis of everything good in life.

Not liking something doesn't make it untrue.

A strong case can be made that civilization itself, and all of it's benefits, would be impossible without some form of slavery, even up to today, with "wage slaves", factories in China and Amazon warehouses. The Athenians who invented the concept of democracy based their economy on slave labor. Whether harsh or not, the net effect is progress, material wealth, the leisure and capital to build infrastructure and conduct research.

Your posts often include naive wishes that "the government" do something to fix problems. Government is nothing but a gang of thugs, a racket. They extort from the productive, keep a large slice for themselves and distribute the rest to the unworthy.

Well, as The Dude once said, "that's like, your opinion, man".
I disagree with pretty much everything in this post.
I'm not interested in competing, killing off all the other men, and having a harem of women.
I'm interested in exploring, experiencing, enjoying, living and letting live, and having a normal romantic relationship with one woman.

Nature without the rule of law, intelligent thought, or compassion, is uncivilized - it's savagery.
The kind of world that you say nature intends for us live in, is a miserable hellscape of brutality and despair.
The purpose of things like the rule of law, intelligent thought, and compassion, is to offset nature, to counteract it, to give us a buffer zone against it, a more livable alternative where we're more free to choose what we want our lives to be about, and more free to be happy and actually enjoy life before it's over - to make life about enjoying it instead of merely surviving.
Otherwise you just have dumb luck and "might makes right".
I don't think the suffering of anyone is the basis of anything good.
I'd say that if people are still suffering, then things aren't that good yet.

You might think my wishes are naive, but I think it's naive to say that the best or only way for humans to act has already been discovered, and it's just the default way that we were - that the way we are, can't be improved from the way we started. Of course the elites would have people believe that nothing better is possible - they have a vested interest in making sure the people are convinced that we can't do any better than this, to the point that they don't even consider that there might be other possibilities. If people can't even imagine something better, or believe that something better is impossible or nonsense, they won't think to demand a better way. And that's exactly how the elites want it.

It's not just that I don't believe in nature, or that I don't like it - it's that I think we have the capacity to choose to do better, and because we can, we should. The way we were was just the starting point, not the destination. Every time we get further away from the cold brutality and dumb luck of survival of the fittest, the safer, warmer, and happier society as a whole becomes. On the other hand, look at the strongman dictatorships of the world, failed states, or the ghettos of the First World - the kinds of places where there's no compassion, and human life has no inherent value - that's what a pure survival of the fittest environment looks like, and I for one don't want us to regress to that. If it makes me "soft" to believe that life isn't, shouldn't, and doesn't have to be some kind of "tough guy" competition, then so be it, because I feel like the reason I (or most people for that matter) have had any pleasant experiences in life at all is because the modern world has allowed us to live a "soft" life. I feel like nature is, at most, a suggestion. It's not a command, a law, a deity, or the final word. It might try to command us, but we don't have to obey. We're sentient beings, we can choose to act on base instinct or choose a higher road. Either way, we're in control, we're not unthinking or unfeeling machines. We can decide what our nature is for ourselves. Nature can suggest, but as sentient beings we can choose something more civilized and compassionate - something more humane.

Also I know it's possible for us to do better than this, because we've done it in the not-too-distant past, and we can do it again.
 
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