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4No1

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When a guy asks for your phone number, do women understand that this means they are interested in them romantically, or is there alot of guys out there who ask for your phone number because they want to be friends, so you cant be sure?
Depends on a situation. If he's a stranger from a street, I'd be just very suprised but I don't think you ask a stranger's number to be friends. But I would ask what for )
If we know each other for a while, I wouldn't think it means something special.
 

CenotaphGirl

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When a guy asks for your phone number, do women understand that this means they are interested in them romantically, or is there alot of guys out there who ask for your phone number because they want to be friends, so you cant be sure?
I will say it depends on environments, sometimes at work and at college its hard to tell, but if its at the club... then... lol However, sometimes guys have wanted to be my friend actually, and was just too scared to ask for my besties number directly or something.
 

TheRealCallie

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When a guy asks for your phone number, do women understand that this means they are interested in them romantically, or is there alot of guys out there who ask for your phone number because they want to be friends, so you cant be sure?

Yep, it entirely depends on the situation. Also, women can't read minds any better than men can (meaning neither gender can), so it's always a good idea to be clear up front.
 

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I asked for a women's work phone number at a business meeting one time. I figured it was less intrusive. But, she seem shocked and asked why with an almost angry look on her face. I thought it was obvious because we were flirting with each other most of the day. But, I played it off by saying I wanted to talk to her boss about her and then laughed. She didn't give me her number and she stopped flirting. I wasn't sure what to think so that was the end of that.
 

CenotaphGirl

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I asked for a women's work phone number at a business meeting one time. I figured it was less intrusive. But, she seem shocked and asked why with an almost angry look on her face. I thought it was obvious because we were flirting with each other most of the day. But, I played it off by saying I wanted to talk to her boss about her and then laughed. She didn't give me her number and she stopped flirting. I wasn't sure what to think so that was the end of that.
We've been married 5 mins and you're cheating on me already? lol

But yeah some women do like having a playful light flirt but, can kinda get shocked when a guy actually pulls her up on it and makes his move.
 

Sunless Sky

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I want to ask a question to the women that was probably asked before on this thread.

Is it the size of the boat or the motion of the ocean?

Please answer based on your personal experiences.
 

ewomack

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But yeah some women do like having a playful light flirt but, can kinda get shocked when a guy actually pulls her up on it and makes his move.
A lot of guys are looking desperately for ANY sign and many are quick to take flirting the wrong way. They shouldn't read in to flirting, that's their issue, but it's also prudent to consider that any seemingly "innocent" flirting can come with big risks. Be careful with that stuff.
 

CenotaphGirl

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A lot of guys are looking desperately for ANY sign and many are quick to take flirting the wrong way. They shouldn't read in to flirting, that's their issue, but it's also prudent to consider that any seemingly "innocent" flirting can come with big risks. Be careful with that stuff.
Yeah there's a thick line between being playful and leading someone on I think, however, that line is easily blurred by people who like to over step the line, feelings or sometimes others social or mental challenges. I waved at a guy nearly every morning, said good morning and thought nothing of it, he became a little obsessed with me and my mum was like.. "how could you do that, wave to a man every morning, you're not a kid anymore... he'll think you like him!!" I was so shocked, like wahhh?? from a wave??... but she wasn't wrong, thats what happened.

Baby! It's not what it looks like. Ha! Ha! She means nothing to me. Trust me baby. Ha! ha!

I'm sure you'll be hearing that sometime during your life if you haven't already. ;)
Oh... yeah.. that should be my ringtone at this point 🙃 😅
 

TheSkaFish

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I think the problem with men interpreting everything as flirting, and being desperate, is that men are kinda forced into depending on hope when it comes to getting a relationship. Men aren't really the choosers most of the time. You basically just have to hope, wish, pray (if that's your thing) that someone chooses you. And the longer that doesn't happen, the more it seems like it never will, and the harder it is to act like everything's fine, and to keep from sinking into despair.

But at the same time, you can't show despair even if that's what you feel, because that's weakness and we all know that weakness is a turnoff in men. So you have to be fake, have to pretend everything is A-OK when it's far from it.

And I think that's also hard for guys because it's like, on the one hand, guys are supposed to be aggressive doers, going out and making stuff happen. But in this situation, you can't really do that. You have to just passively hope to be chosen, that however you randomly turned out to be, is good enough to hit someone's emotions hard enough for enough for a response.

According to Merriam-Webster:

desperate

1: very sad and upset because of having little or no hope : feeling or showing despair


This is usually where someone will wheel out ye olde tired, condescending "sElF-iMpRoVeMeNt" advice.

But if that's so effective, and if you could just choose to be better, why doesn't everyone do it? It's like rich people telling poor people, "just stop being poor". Well golly gee, why didn't I think of that?

Is it even possible for a person to self-improve meaningfully enough for it to make any significant difference in the outcome? Or does it depend on having the right genetics to be born with talent, and if you don't have it, you're done, you were as good as you're ever going to be at birth and if it's not good enough, then that's it, the game is over before it begins?

So you have to just try a bunch of things, throw a bunch of things at the wall and hope something sticks. It's like trying to guess the combination on a lock - in this case, the lock of emotions. And in the middle of all this, what about what's really "you"? Maybe you feel like "you" doesn't work, so you have to keep reinventing and rebranding your whole character over and over. It's mentally and emotionally tiresome to keep having to rearrange and reinvent yourself over and over wondering when it's going to be enough, and you can get to really living instead of having to struggle to guess the "right" answers for how to be.

It's hard to go forward in any direction in life, to go ahead living, when you constantly don't know what the hell kind of person to be, what to be interested in, how to think, how to act, how to talk, what to believe, what to do and go for in life, that will make you into someone that another person can be interested in and attracted to.

It's like, I like to joke about going to the gym, buying a sports car, and being maximally stereotypical cornball '80s macho man. But if it were that simple, every lonely guy would have done that ages ago.

My point is that, hope is a shitty strategy. But in this situation it's kind of the strategy you're forced into by default. There's only so much you can do on your end, especially if you're not a very masculine guy or a very witty guy - not that those things are mutually exclusive but still. It seems like if you are a man but you're not macho, witty, or gifted, good luck getting someone to like you. If you don't have those things, what is there for a woman to find attractive to about you?

I just don't think you can fault guys entirely for being desperate, because that's kind of the position nature puts you in. I mean, you can fault people for being violent out of desperation, but you can fault anyone for aggressive violence. But I don't think you can really fault a guy for getting his hopes up for being chosen. When you're not chosen, life's kinda shitty. Booze, weed, video games, travel, TV and movies and other distractions only do so much for you, when you feel like you're inherently not good enough for a normal life, not even true luxury. And you wonder if you'll ever figure it out, or if you just don't have it in you.
 
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^ So, in the olden days everything seemed to workout just fine. Guy saw woman. Guy drag woman to spot. Guy do woman good. Woman like attention. Woman make baby. Species continues. It good for both. I think I finally found what got us into this power struggle, sensative caring guy crap in the first place. This kind of crap:

iu
 

TheSkaFish

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Not exactly. I'm not saying go back to caveman times. I just feel like times were better not that long ago, when people gave you time for emotions to develop, instead of wanting them right away. Hell, I've changed my mind (for the better) about some women over time myself. But now it's like you have to be really cool, or really funny right away, so you can make someone feel enough. If you're just a normal guy, it feels like you'll be written off as boring/incompatible/no chemistry, because you won't be able to say or do anything to make someone feel strong enough emotions, fast enough.

But getting good at things takes time - if you can do it at all, which I don't know if I can. And being funny, I don't know - not everyone feels inclined to be "the funny man", or feels like they can be funny reliably.

Plus being interesting/good at things and being funny is hard when you have to work a normal job, which can be draining. Hard to have an "I love life, everything's going great" attitude, when work gets you down.

(shrugs) I don't know. Maybe I'm just worrying myself in circles again. Sorry for being a downer. I've felt "off" lately.
 
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CenotaphGirl

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This is usually where someone will wheel out ye olde tired, condescending "sElF-iMpRoVeMeNt" advice.

So my opinion about self improvement is this... now dont kill me as it's just an opinion. If a man is not falling into any of the categories below, then sure, he should ignore all advice to self improve for dating as he's probably got something unfixable wrong with him... But these are the areas that make a man particularly undesirable in mine and most of the girls I know (age range is 19-31) opinions...

1. Still living at home with parents / can't drive
2. Obesity / Overweight / hates exercise / won't eat healthy portioned meals
3. Personal hygiene could use a more consistent routine
4. Not seeking help for mental health issues
5. Porn addictions (usually can tell as they get very graphic what you are trying to have a little flirt)
6. Poor income (expects me to provide for him)
7. Dating gurus!!! crappy advice.... (this ones mine lol)
8. Wants someone to date them out of pity...
9. Denies any genuine interest as "too good to be true"
10. Creepy... Thinks the same approach works for every guy, it wont.
11. Can't speak to girls he finds attractive
12. Thinks every girl "gives it up" on the first date
13. Jealous and over protective (a little jealousy can be attractive but not too much)
14. Wants to re live high school teen days at 30+ (there is no time machine... I want a "man" if I go with older).
15. Cries a lot... (now this is toxic, but I'm being honest, I don't want a man that cries more than I do)

Now this is just my and all my friends opinions, I could say things a little more controversial but I will skip them out as I don't wanna seem like I'm trolling or to hurt anyones feelings. The list is what can be changed, I didn't put anything that cannot be changed (I don't think)...
 

orangecat

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This is usually where someone will wheel out ye olde tired, condescending "sElF-iMpRoVeMeNt" advice.
*sarcasm* oh, but it's easy, don't you see?! Don't be yourself!! Just be Keanu Reeves and say this to all the ladies...:p
breathtaking-youre-breathtaking.gif

It's like, I like to joke about going to the gym, buying a sports car, and being maximally stereotypical cornball '80s macho man. But if it were that simple, every lonely guy would have done that ages ago.
I think the Tom Selleck/Magnum PI/ John Rambo/ Zardu Hasselfrau look is no longer in vogue. :ROFLMAO:
Pretty sure the gals now like BTS, K-pop stuff. Also quite a few ladies I know like the men from that Chinese costume drama "The Untamed"
If you're just a normal guy, it feels like you'll be written off as boring/incompatible/no chemistry, because you won't be able to say or do anything to make someone feel strong enough emotions, fast enough.
so far nothing about your posts here suggest you are all that, if that is what you are worrying about. I can say I enjoy reading your posts, you articulate yourself very well and you're thoughtful plus funny too. But yeah, you are maybe being a bit too hard on yourself by overthinking.
 
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ardour

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So my opinion about self improvement is this... now dont kill me as it's just an opinion. If a man is not falling into any of the categories below, then sure, he should ignore all advice to self improve for dating as he's probably got something unfixable wrong with him... But these are the areas that make a man particularly undesirable in mine and most of the girls I know (age range is 19-31) opinions...

1. Still living at home with parents / can't drive
2. Obesity / Overweight / hates exercise / won't eat healthy portioned meals
3. Personal hygiene could use a more consistent routine
4. Not seeking help for mental health issues
5. Porn addictions (usually can tell as they get very graphic what you are trying to have a little flirt)
6. Poor income (expects me to provide for him)
7. Dating gurus!!! crappy advice.... (this ones mine lol)
8. Wants someone to date them out of pity...
9. Denies any genuine interest as "too good to be true"
10. Creepy... Thinks the same approach works for every guy, it wont.
11. Can't speak to girls he finds attractive
12. Thinks every girl "gives it up" on the first date
13. Jealous and over protective (a little jealousy can be attractive but not too much)
14. Wants to re live high school teen days at 30+ (there is no time machine... I want a "man" if I go with older).
15. Cries a lot... (now this is toxic, but I'm being honest, I don't want a man that cries more than I do)

Now this is just my and all my friends opinions, I could say things a little more controversial but I will skip them out as I don't wanna seem like I'm trolling or to hurt anyones feelings. The list is what can be changed, I didn't put anything that cannot be changed (I don't think)...

I don't think you want a man who ever cries. It sounds typical of Female Dating Strategy posters; mix in a some reasonable sounding criteria and that which implies a desire for stoic provider type. Your first sentence is extremely arrogant and I get the impression you have never needed to ask a member of the opposite sex out before, put yourself up for judgement and dealt with rejections.
 
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TheRealCallie

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This is usually where someone will wheel out ye olde tired, condescending "sElF-iMpRoVeMeNt" advice
Self improvement should not be used specifically to get a date. It's more for you, to feel better about yourself. Every single person on this planet needs self improvement. If they say they don't, they are an egotistical liar.

Obviously my situation is different, I've had dates, I've been married and I could get a date again if I wanted one...BUT, there was a long time period where I felt I was worthless, where I didn't think I was good enough and would never be able to get another guy.
Now this is where some will come in and say my experience doesn't count because I have had dates and couldn't possibly understand. You're wrong, I know full well what it's like to feel worthless and not good enough. I worked my ass off doing "self improvement" and learned to like myself. Learned that I am good enough and that if someone doesn't want me, then they don't deserve me. That is what self improvement is truly for. To make yourself understand that even if you are alone, you are okay, you can still have a good life and good experiences.
 

CenotaphGirl

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I don't think you want a man who ever cries. It sounds typical of Female Dating Strategy posters; mix in a some reasonable sounding criteria and that which implies a desire for stoic provider type. Your first sentence is extremely arrogant and I get the impression you have never needed to ask a member of the opposite sex out before, put yourself up for judgement and dealt with rejections.

Apologies if you are offended, truthfully, I tried soo hard to make it as inoffensive as possible whilst still being honest about what I think... I was trying to agree with the notion that self improvement won't work for everyone in terms of dating, some people have things that cant be "fixed or changed", I think a lot of men on here particularly have persuaded me on that, like there's some sort of permanent traits they can never have. If that is true, then sure its not worth listening to "improve yourself", but if a man is ticking the boxes with record numbers, there might be hope to turn things around. I like that you said some of it is reasonable though, would love to know which ones were and which ones weren't.

I think as a woman a lot of what I understand about "being a man" is what I observed from my father, he was the stoic provider type, so hints of that is what I look for, as that is my idea of what a man who wants to be with me, should be like. Everyone has preferences... at least I think they do. I don't think every man should be like that though. I have read that there are some ladies who will appreciate a man that cries a lot and is in touch with his emotions, but I don't know them personally.
 

TheRealCallie

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Very few of the things you listed can't be changed. It's like with anyone, male or female, they have to have a reason to want to change those things. No one is going to change anything unless they finally realize they need to, unless they want to. In addition to that, some of the things you listed, even if they are "doing" the things, it doesn't mean they necessarily want to actually change, they may just be going through the motions because they think they should. Like seeking help for mental illness. You can see a therapist all you want, but if you aren't open for it to actually work, it won't do a damn thing to help.
Personally, very few of the things you listed would make me disregard a guy and say they are not dating material.
 

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