Lack of respect between the sexes

[Tealeaf]

Does this seem to be lacking to anyone else? Between the women who accept favors from men they're not interested in despite knowing that it's a display of romantic intention and the men who talk about how vaginas, despite the same thing never happening to your belly button, mouth, nostrils, ears, or anus, become "used up" and "loose" simply through use...

Ask any of these people if they'd be okay with someone treating their mother, father, brother, sister, niece, or nephew this way and they'll say no. When it comes to dating, though, the human aspect can happily be removed and all that's left is the object ready to have value extracted from it.

 

[Limlim]

I dunno, some days I take a honeysuckle so huge that my anus feels pretty used up and loose.

Then there was this one time when I was a toddler and I shoved a packing peanut up my nose.

 

[Edward W]

Then there was this one time when I was a toddler and I shoved a packing peanut up my nose.

Yeah right, 'Toddler', I bet this was last week!

 

[Disaffected]

[video=youtube]

 

[johnny196775]

I don't get it.

 

[Ymir]

Jokes aside, I've noticed that too. Don't get me started with the whole "loose vagina" myth T_T. I do know a chick that cheats on her boyfriend and only speaks ill of him, but goes out with him because he pays everything...

Let's have some respect, please.

 

[TheRealCallie]

I think people do what they can get away with. Some people are ******* (both male and female) and say whatever they want and that's their prerogative to do so. People don't have to treat you with respect, if you don't like it, don't allow it to happen. If someone is rude, just say good bye and walk away.
Personally, those people you are talking about are helpful, in a way, because they show you who they really are. If they were respectful to start out, you'd get further in before realizing what they're really like.

People talk honeysuckle...it's a fact of life. Only thing you can do about it is choose how you allow it to affect your mental state.

 

[Tealeaf]

Well, this thread was a disaster. Sorry for wanting to bring up the topic of human interaction and some of the things that are damaging it. Maybe I should have complained about nice guys and online dating for the 647th time, and then we could have had a serious discussion.

 

[raincloud]

Wait, so women aren't allowed to accept favors from someone unless they plan to have sex with them? Oh, okay. I forgot that's all we were good for.

 

[PieBeNice]

Wait, so women aren't allowed to accept favors from someone unless they plan to have sex with them? Oh, okay. I forgot that's all we were good for.

Trolling by not reading his post. I like this. More please.

 

[raincloud]

Wait, so women aren't allowed to accept favors from someone unless they plan to have sex with them? Oh, okay. I forgot that's all we were good for.

Trolling by not reading his post. I like this. More please.

Gee, I'm sorry, I totally read "Does this seem to be lacking to anyone else? Between the women who accept favors from men they're not interested in despite knowing that it's a display of romantic intention and the men who talk about how vaginas, despite the same thing never happening to your belly button, mouth, nostrils, ears, or anus, become "used up" and "loose" simply through use..."

I cut and paste -- is that not what it says?

So, basically women should A) read minds to fully understand what favors are out of kindness and what favors are for getting into one's pants and B) not accept favors unless they want to put out. And somehow that is equal to bashing of genitalia? I know this post was written by a woman, but I have no time for internalized misogyny. I'm not trolling, though yes, I was being sarcastic. There seems to be a lot of this "WOMEN ARE SO MEAN BY NOT HAVING THE SEX" mentality on this board (and lots of other message boards and among straight men in general). I apologize if I came off as harsh, but every time I come to this site I see a new post about that.

Like, if some guy is offering favors in return for sexual favors, then that sounds like his own problem and that's not equivalent to shaming sexuality and body parts? Perhaps it was just a bad equivalence or bad juxtaposition, but NOPE. No time for that here.

 

[Sci-Fi]

Well, this thread was a disaster. Sorry for wanting to bring up the topic of human interaction and some of the things that are damaging it. Maybe I should have complained about nice guys and online dating for the 647th time, and then we could have had a serious discussion.

Have you actually read those threads? Most of the time they are far from it and usually end up in a twisted disaster too.

On topic though, Raincloud I still don't think you quite get what Tealeaf wrote.

Between the women who accept favors from men they're not interested in despite knowing that it's a display of romantic intention

Tealeaf isn't saying that women take favours as a romantic interest but the ones who do, knowing it is. But on that topic being a guy and having many female friends, whenever I did something nice for them because we were friends, and it's just something I do, I had ALL of them think I was doing it because I was interested in them. Not once, no joke and these are just MY friends, ever took it as a friend doing something nice for them just because we're friends but because I have a penis and it must mean I am doing it because I want to hook up with them. See part of the problem is that when someone from the opposite sex does something nice it's many times (not always) taken as romantic interest.

On Tealeaf's topic, I have to agree I've heard many of male friends make comments about wrecking that vagina or how loose it is after they were done with it. Well, vagina isn't the word they use but out of respect for the women here I won't say what they said. That's just the way some guys talk with other guys, or women they are comfortable around. There does seem to be a lack of respect between the sexes but I think some of it has to do with mixed messages one of the two parties perceives.

 

[painter's radio]

I think it was just worded in a way that could be easily misinterpreted, and what was meant was "people should not take advantage of others". For example if a woman is deliberatly stringing a guy along, knowing full well he has romantic feelings for her, and milking it to get what she can from it.

At least I hope that's what was meant by it. Perhaps I'm being naive.

Whatever was meant by it, I'm not sure why Tealeaf got so grumpy in their last reply. It's not as if this area of relations is any less discussed than online dating and nice guys. To me it just looks like another Misogyny/nice guy/genders thread. Why the focus on gender anyway?

 

[PieBeNice]

Wait, so women aren't allowed to accept favors from someone unless they plan to have sex with them? Oh, okay. I forgot that's all we were good for.

Trolling by not reading his post. I like this. More please.

Gee, I'm sorry, I totally read "Does this seem to be lacking to anyone else? Between the women who accept favors from men they're not interested in despite knowing that it's a display of romantic intention and the men who talk about how vaginas, despite the same thing never happening to your belly button, mouth, nostrils, ears, or anus, become "used up" and "loose" simply through use..."

I cut and paste -- is that not what it says?

So, basically women should A) read minds to fully understand what favors are out of kindness and what favors are for getting into one's pants and B) not accept favors unless they want to put out. And somehow that is equal to bashing of genitalia? I know this post was written by a woman, but I have no time for internalized misogyny. I'm not trolling, though yes, I was being sarcastic. There seems to be a lot of this "WOMEN ARE SO MEAN BY NOT HAVING THE SEX" mentality on this board (and lots of other message boards and among straight men in general). I apologize if I came off as harsh, but every time I come to this site I see a new post about that.

Like, if some guy is offering favors in return for sexual favors, then that sounds like his own problem and that's not equivalent to shaming sexuality and body parts? Perhaps it was just a bad equivalence or bad juxtaposition, but NOPE. No time for that here.

A. is the correct answer. And I think you read my post wrong I said it was good. More trolling please.

 

[Tealeaf]

I think it was just worded in a way that could be easily misinterpreted, and what was meant was "people should not take advantage of others". For example if a woman is deliberatly stringing a guy along, knowing full well he has romantic feelings for her, and milking it to get what she can from it.

At least I hope that's what was meant by it. Perhaps I'm being naive.

Thank God! You'd think the terms "despite knowing" and "display of romantic intention" would tip people off that it's not about trading sex for favors or accepting favors period.

Whatever was meant by it, I'm not sure why Tealeaf got so grumpy in their last reply. It's not as if this area of relations is any less discussed than online dating and nice guys. To me it just looks like another Misogyny/nice guy/genders thread. Why the focus on gender anyway?

Because we can have almost 30 pages of self-indulgent bitching and moaning about nice guys and online dating and have that be a regular thing, but a thread about a fundamental lack of respect in how men and women are looking at each other when it comes to dating, as shown by the way they talk about each other's bodies or the excuses they make for leading each other on, is pretty much just trolled, misread, and goofed off on from the start.

How does "don't take advantage of others" fall under the misogyny or nice guys category, anyway? Do you consider it misogynistic to expect grown women to turn down favors or gifts from a man they know is interested and is trying to win her affection when she's not interested herself?

 

[painter's radio]

whenever I did something nice for them because we were friends, and it's just something I do, I had ALL of them think I was doing it because I was interested in them. Not once, no joke and these are just MY friends, ever took it as a friend doing something nice for them just because we're friends but because I have a penis and it must mean I am doing it because I want to hook up with them.

Wow that's really sad. Can I ask how you know they thought this? Like, did they say "Thanks for that but I'm not interested in you in that way" or something?

I really don't think I could be friends with such a person. Someone who can't think for themselves and differentiate between the two. Really people shouldn't flatter themselves so much.

 

[Alonewith2cats]

I think it's important to know your value as a human being and choose to only associate with people who are on your same level, those who treat ALL human beings like human beings which means with respect regardless of who is male or female. If I heard a guy talking about women's body parts that way, I wouldn't have any interest in speaking to him. I'd stay away.

 

[Tealeaf]

Tealeaf isn't saying that women take favours as a romantic interest but the ones who do, knowing it is. But on that topic being a guy and having many female friends, whenever I did something nice for them because we were friends, and it's just something I do, I had ALL of them think I was doing it because I was interested in them. Not once, no joke and these are just MY friends, ever took it as a friend doing something nice for them just because we're friends but because I have a penis and it must mean I am doing it because I want to hook up with them. See part of the problem is that when someone from the opposite sex does something nice it's many times (not always) taken as romantic interest.

On Tealeaf's topic, I have to agree I've heard many of male friends make comments about wrecking that vagina or how loose it is after they were done with it. Well, vagina isn't the word they use but out of respect for the women here I won't say what they said. That's just the way some guys talk with other guys, or women they are comfortable around. There does seem to be a lack of respect between the sexes but I think some of it has to do with mixed messages one of the two parties perceives.

I don't think it's all talk of which women men want to have sex with that suggests a lack of respect, or even the words themselves. It's the views someone would have to hold - consciously or otherwise - on womens' bodies and sexuality to be talking about how vaginas become used up and of less value through sex in the first place. There's talking about who you want to have sex with and why, and then there's talking about people as if they can be depleted and as if sex between men and women depletes women of value (see: the loose vagina the more she has sex).

It's like people can't just stop at saying they don't want someone with a radically different approach to sex if that's what bothers them about being with a woman who's had many sexual partners. No idea what's up with people who have a lot of sex themselves and still think like that.

 

[raincloud]

If you are offering "favors" to get romantic/sexual attention in return, then you are a horrible person. Full stop. If you whine about it on the internet or unironically discuss the "friend zone" then you are a horrible person.

My reading comprehension skills are top-notch and I DID read the part about the "despite knowing that it's a display of romantic intention." How would that happen exactly? What is this hypothetical situation you envision where the woman KNOWS what the guy is thinking? Is he upfront? I'm imagining that a fellow just approaches a lady and says "I would like to take you out to dinner so that I can have sex with you later" and then she just takes the dinner and leaves. Frankly he deserves it. Are they going on a date and she decides she's not interested, and then she's "disrespectful" if he paid for dinner? People aren't vending machines where sex and love pour out after you put "favors" in. I read everything fine, it was perfectly clear. Where have I heard this line of reasoning before? Oh right, high school dudebros and adult misogynists.

The only thing I misinterpreted was the accusation that I'm a troll. Which I'm not.

It's a sad world that you live in and I feel sorry for you! But I admire your apparent mind-reading capabilities.

Also, Sci-Fi, I'm not defending your friends in this instance, but given what I've seen with all the "nice guys" on this message board (and Nice Guy defenders like the OP), a lot of ladies are wary of friendly behavior because apparently it means that angry dudes will whine about us on the internet for not having sex with them. Or, murder us. Whatever.

 

[painter's radio]

Because we can have almost 30 pages of self-indulgent bitching and moaning about nice guys and online dating and have that be a regular thing, but a thread about a fundamental lack of respect in how men and women are looking at each other when it comes to dating, as shown by the way they talk about each other's bodies or the excuses they make for leading each other on, is pretty much just trolled, misread, and goofed off on from the start.

How does "don't take advantage of others" fall under the misogyny or nice guys category, anyway? Do you consider it misogynistic to expect grown women to turn down favors or gifts from a man they know is interested and is trying to win her affection when she's not interested herself?

I suppose it depends what the favour/gift is. Each scenario could be different. If these favours or gifts are small things that people should be generally doing for each other anyway (holding doors open, offering a helping hand when someone is struggling blah blah) then it's fine to accept them, regardless of the other person's feelings/intentions. Small gifts too I guess. But there will come a point where I think it's this woman's responsibility to say "no, that's enough". In a perfect world she wouldn't have to but some people don't know when to stop.

I think of the guy in this scenario as a "nice guy". Maybe he is doing her favours and buying her things to win her over romantically, but not for the sole purpose of getting laid. That was my interpretation of it anyway.
I just think this topic was too closely related to it, and wouldn't be surprised if in the end it evolved to be about these things.