Some insightful notes on eugenics

[there is no hope]

https://cfrankdavis.wordpress.com/2011/03/05/a-modest-eugenic-proposal/

https://cfrankdavis.wordpress.com/2011/09/01/anti-eugenics/

Of all places, coming from a smokers' rights activist, but he has done a very good job of dissecting the core of the eugenist argument and why it is inherently a horrible, evil ideology, with a fair bit of humor thrown in. Fun for the whole family.

 

[there is no hope]

bump.

 

[lonelydoc]

I'm not a eugenecist, but I do believe our industrial civilization is keeping many diseased, criminal, elderly, dependent people going for a long time.

It's going to break, and life will become tough again.

 

[Sci-Fi]

I'm not a eugenecist, but I do believe our industrial civilization is keeping many diseased, criminal, elderly, dependent people going for a long time.

It's going to break, and life will become tough again.

You've been warned about making remarks like that.

 

[there is no hope]

I'm not a eugenecist, but I do believe our industrial civilization is keeping many diseased, criminal, elderly, dependent people going for a long time.

It's going to break, and life will become tough again.

Life isn't always this hyper-Darwinian struggle of the fittest, though. Historical civilizations had invalids, often ignored by history, and survival in history often has no rhyme or reason. Science doesn't like to say that honeysuckle happens and scientists often want to rationalize everything, but reality has shown that honeysuckle really does happen.

Of course, the reality is that there is no good reason why anyone has to die, far from it. There is enough food, enough resources to go around, if it were distributed practically. That someone with privilege and status believes that poor people who don't work don't deserve food or a life is their own value system, the fact is the resources are there, often in sight of the homeless man who is despised by society.

 

[lonelydoc]

I'm not a eugenecist, but I do believe our industrial civilization is keeping many diseased, criminal, elderly, dependent people going for a long time.

It's going to break, and life will become tough again.

You've been warned about making remarks like that.

Warn me all you want, you either respect the freedom of speech and different opinions or you don't.

Interesting isn't it, in today's world the people who most claim to be tolerant and loving and "multicultural" and kumbaya and "everything is awesome" are the most willing to act like Nazis when it comes to suppressing dissent.

---

I'm not a eugenecist, but I do believe our industrial civilization is keeping many diseased, criminal, elderly, dependent people going for a long time.

It's going to break, and life will become tough again.

Life isn't always this hyper-Darwinian struggle of the fittest, though. Historical civilizations had invalids, often ignored by history, and survival in history often has no rhyme or reason. Science doesn't like to say that honeysuckle happens and scientists often want to rationalize everything, but reality has shown that honeysuckle really does happen.

Of course, the reality is that there is no good reason why anyone has to die, far from it. There is enough food, enough resources to go around, if it were distributed practically. That someone with privilege and status believes that poor people who don't work don't deserve food or a life is their own value system, the fact is the resources are there, often in sight of the homeless man who is despised by society.

Hate to break it to you, but the mortality rate of every single one of us is 100%.

If you want to try to change that, be my guest, see how far you go.

 

[HoodedMonk]

I'm not a eugenecist, but I do believe our industrial civilization is keeping many diseased, criminal, elderly, dependent people going for a long time.

It's going to break, and life will become tough again.

You've been warned about making remarks like that.

Warn me all you want, you either respect the freedom of speech and different opinions or you don't.

Interesting isn't it, in today's world the people who most claim to be tolerant and loving and "multicultural" and kumbaya and "everything is awesome" are the most willing to act like Nazis when it comes to suppressing dissent.

Really. REALLY? Evoke "freedom of speech" to push others down?

Try another argument. That one's been used and abused by bigots everywhere that don't care about other people's feelings or the rights of others.

"Freedom of religion" to push others down and discrimination.

"Freedom of speech" to be downright rude and mean to others.

Whatever dude. Go cry tears because you can't make others feel like crap.

 

[there is no hope]

Hate to break it to you, but the mortality rate of every single one of us is 100%.

If you want to try to change that, be my guest, see how far you go.

If you are incapable of understanding why your argument is flawed, then there is nothing more to say.

I'll wait for you to figure it out on your own.

 

[kamya]

So he makes up an argument supporting eugenics and then comes up with reasons on why that argument is bad?

 

[Sci-Fi]

I'm not a eugenecist, but I do believe our industrial civilization is keeping many diseased, criminal, elderly, dependent people going for a long time.

It's going to break, and life will become tough again.

You've been warned about making remarks like that.

Warn me all you want, you either respect the freedom of speech and different opinions or you don't.

Interesting isn't it, in today's world the people who most claim to be tolerant and loving and "multicultural" and kumbaya and "everything is awesome" are the most willing to act like Nazis when it comes to suppressing dissent.

There is a HUGE difference between freedom of speech and the hate you go around spewing all of the time. Let's see if you get the picture this time with a longer vacation for the forum.

 

[there is no hope]

http://localfamilylawattorneys.com/...d-by-uk-child-protective-services-negligence/

more eugenics links.

"proof".

 

[Lowlander]

And how exactly is this eugenics? Do you know how many disabled people there are in the world? Do you scream eugenics every time an accident happens? I myself have worked with people who have all sorts of disabilities, and tragic accidents and outrageous things do happen. But that has nothing to do with eugenics. If that were the case, I'd have to scream eugenics a lot. Furthermore, if you want proof, go to a proper website.

 

[there is no hope]

Yes, because it is eugenics to deliberately neglect someone who can be easily treated and have it be standard operating procedure.

People like you are why my life turned into this nightmare, and people like you are why my life is going to be over very soon.

No hope.

 

[TheRealCallie]

You have no hope because you won't allow yourself to give yourself any. That's on YOU! Stop blaming other people for your life being as it is and start taking responsibility for yourself!

Also, yeah, people are shitty sometimes, people neglect children sometimes, but that does NOT mean it is eugenics. There is nothing showing that CPS had anything to do with or caused that child's death. I didn't bother to watch your **** video either, I looked at reputable sources. Get over yourself. That is NOT proof.....

 

[Despicable Me]

You have no hope because you won't allow yourself to give yourself any. That's on YOU! Stop blaming other people for your life being as it is and start taking responsibility for yourself!

What a horrible thing to say to someone here on this forum.
Do you even consider what you're saying before you say it, Callie? Do you always blame people for everything that happens to them, even when it really is out of their control? How do YOU know what is his fault and what is not? Do you know him personally?
I am really disgusted by your attitude here, Callie.

Having been through things that were completely and utterly out of my control from an early age. Having seen people hurt and people die due to things they could have never prevented.... I just don't understand how you can say things like this. You just lay blame on someone, not even knowing their circumstances? You don't know how much you can hurt people by trying to lay blame on them like that. You really don't understand what kind of harm you're doing. Do you even know the sorts of things that go on in this world?

 

[TheRealCallie]

You have no hope because you won't allow yourself to give yourself any. That's on YOU! Stop blaming other people for your life being as it is and start taking responsibility for yourself!

What a horrible thing to say to someone here on this forum.
Do you even consider what you're saying before you say it, Callie? Do you always blame people for everything that happens to them, even when it really is out of their control? How do YOU know what is his fault and what is not? Do you know him personally?
I am really disgusted by your attitude here, Callie.

Having been through things that were completely and utterly out of my control from an early age. Having seen people hurt and people die due to things they could have never prevented.... I just don't understand how you can say things like this. You just lay blame on someone, not even knowing their circumstances? You don't know how much you can hurt people by trying to lay blame on them like that. You really don't understand what kind of harm you're doing.

Oh, so it's perfectly okay to blame someone else, someone that you don't even KNOW, for what is wrong with your own life? Um, no. THAT is disgusting. Me calling him on it is not disgusting, it's the truth.

Many horrible things happen to people on a daily basis, but you know what, it's up to each person how they choose to deal with it. It's on each person if they choose to let it destroy your life. You can just as easily turn it around and move on from it and not allow it to "ruin" your life.
It's on each individual person to decide if they are going to let events and things that happen dictate the path of their life.

I'm sorry but no, it's NOT okay to blame others, ESPECIALLY in a situation such as this, when it is clearly not a complete strangers fault. So yes, it's time to take responsibility for your own actions and thoughts, in this situation. There is no way that this is Lowlander's (or people like him) fault.
And no, I don't blame other people for being raped or attacked or anything like that, but it IS on them to choose what path their journey will follow after the fact.
How you choose to live your life is ENTIRELY on you. It doesn't matter what has happened to you in your life. YOU choose where you go in life, not others.

 

[Despicable Me]

Many horrible things happen to people on a daily basis, but you know what, it's up to each person how they choose to deal with it. It's on each person if they choose to let it destroy your life. You can just as easily turn it around and move on from it and not allow it to "ruin" your life.
It's on each individual person to decide if they are going to let events and things that happen dictate the path of their life.

That's a very naive point of view. I can only assume the only way you can say this is by having never actually been in such a position yourself.

Do you even understand that in some people's cases things really do destroy lives? That it can even be an ongoing process? That there are sometimes when there is simply just nothing that can be done? Just look around you right now. Look at the world for what it really is. There are so many examples and things which obviously prove you wrong. I've lived through some of them myself. I know others who have lived through even worse. If you can't see these things... then there is really no point in arguing with you. Wrong is wrong and nothing you can say now will ever make you right on this issue.

Maybe there is no hope is throwing around blame to people he sees imitating things which have hurt him in the past, possibly too much blame... But how does that give you any right to blame him for being a victim of circumstances? It's ridiculous, harmful, and very ignorant. Please don't go around blaming others just because you feel blamed. There is irony in that.

 

[TheRealCallie]

Don't assume anything about me, dear. You would be surprised what I've been through in my life.

It gives me every right to stand up for people being blamed for things they are in NO WAY responsible for. I'm sorry, but I will NOT sit by and watch someone blame complete strangers for what they are going through, because it's not their fault, not in any way. Also, I don't recall blaming anyone for anything I felt blamed for. So yeah, keep trying there, honey.

I own up to my mistakes, every single one of them and I do NOT pass blame to others for things I go through, because first, it's wrong and second, it does NOTHING. You don't have to like what I say. I don't really care if you do or not. I'm entitled to my opinion and I said it. I'm not looking to coddle people and I never will do that. Take what you like and leave the rest, m'kay?

Many horrible things happen to people on a daily basis, but you know what, it's up to each person how they choose to deal with it. It's on each person if they choose to let it destroy your life. You can just as easily turn it around and move on from it and not allow it to "ruin" your life.
It's on each individual person to decide if they are going to let events and things that happen dictate the path of their life.

That's a very naive point of view. I can only assume the only way you can say this is by having never actually been in such a position yourself.

Do you even understand that in some people's cases things really do destroy lives? That it can even be an ongoing process? That there are sometimes when there is simply just nothing that can be done? Just look around you right now. Look at the world for what it really is. There are so many examples and things which obviously prove you wrong. I've lived through some of them myself. I know others who have lived through even worse. If you can't see these things... then there is really no point in arguing with you. Wrong is wrong and nothing you can say now will ever make you right on this issue.

Maybe there is no hope is throwing around blame to people he sees imitating things which have hurt him in the past, possibly too much blame... But how does that give you any right to blame him for being a victim of circumstances? It's ridiculous, harmful, and very ignorant. Please don't go around blaming others just because you feel blamed. There is irony in that.

 

[Despicable Me]

You don't have to like what I say. I don't really care if you do or not.

It is ironic you'd say this, because the same applies to me and everyone else here. So if you do not like what I have to say then why is anyone to care? Why is anyone to care about anything either of us say, for that matter?

The truth is what matters here, not what is said or isn't said.

I'm entitled to my opinion and I said it.

I always love this excuse. It's always the excuse of someone who knows they are wrong and does not want to admit it. They start calling their beliefs and statements "opinions" and then act as if there is some sort of fundamental entitlement to stating these horrible things and hurting other people. As if anyone ever gave you that right.
I've seen this enough times to know that it is complete nonsense. No one has ever entitled you to state things that aren't true. In fact, that is THE fundamental premise of wrong-doing. What we call 'lies'. Recognize it.

I'm not looking to coddle people and I never will do that. Take what you like and leave the rest, m'kay?

And I'm not looking to coddle you or anyone else either. The difference is I have the facts and you're just laying down blame and accusing people for being a victim.

You really don't get it, do you?
Well, I didn't like anything you had to say, and I won't "leave the rest". Because harmful statements are harmful, and I don't sit by and idly watch as people do harm to others. It's something that I've had to learn not to tolerate, even slightly.

So I will not leave the rest. If you want to argue, then explain your statements. How can you blame him for his circumstances? And how can you blame a complete stranger? Recognize your hypocrisy.
Maybe you don't like what he says, but that doesn't entitle you to any right to suggest he is to blame for everything that happens to him. As I said before, wrong is wrong. If you say you own up to your mistakes, then do what is right here and own up to this one.

I'm not looking to offend you, but do realize what sort of harm you're doing. Blaming someone for blaming someone isn't right, and it's even worse when your blame is for things not even relevant to the act.

I don't want to be cruel here, but what you're doing is very much like the people who blame rape victims for "wanting it", when the person being accused is someone they trust. The situation is obviously very different, but the reasoning is exactly the same - and it is horrific. There is absolutely no logic to it whatsoever. This is something you NEED to recognize.

 

[Wayfarer]

Guys, please. I believe we all are civilized people and are capable to have a proper conversation.

Freedom of speech exists, but this doesn't mean you can insult people. You can easily say what you think without offending anyone.

Third, this is clearly a matter of opinions. You can't expect to bash all people who think differently and call them liars because they don't believe in your point of view. A conclusion is naturally reached after everyone expresses their point of view and lists (valid) evidence. After that is done, everyone is free to keep their point of view, or to change it. This is freedom.