Stop Talking to Yourself

[jzinsky]

Are you seriously telling me that trying to silence a voice that has, before now, driven me to points of insanity/misery/anger that I've ended up playing games like "how many times can I cross roads without looking before I get taken out" or "will that branch take my weight" is ludicrous?

Got any other suggestions?

I am encouraging you to silence that voice the internal dialogue. What I said was ludicrous was the lengths people will go to distract themselves from the voice music being one example of that.

Ok I'm with you now

 

[Focused_Intent]

As much as I don't buy into what you're talking about I gotta give you credit for the consistency of your posts, the good intentions of what you're sharing, and being the better person despite some of us (me included) being somewhat mocking. Or jacka**es.

Like I said, I don't buy in but I admire your style.

+1

Thank you.

On the contrary, shrooms make you imagine things that aren't there

Even though this is slightly off topic I will say that for starters they don't make you imagine things. To imagine something is to form a mental picture of it in your mind. The mushrooms allow you to experience energy that is there, but not normally perceived by your senses. It is impossible to experience something that is not there. If it's not there how could you experience it?

Your brain has the tedious job of interpreting sensory information it receives and using that information to create the reality you experience. If you are suddenly bombarded with new information (receiving new frequencies) because you took mushrooms your brain doesn't know what to do with it. So it uses it's existing inventory of all the things you currently know to create something for you to experience because that's its job. So you might see a purple bald eagle with a blonde toupee eating a Rice Krispies snack.

Children are accustomed to experiencing new energy and they are constantly learning how to interpret the incoming information about the world from the adults around them. However when people reach a certain age their arrogant ego thinks it has seen it all and knows it all. This is when somebody's view point becomes fixed. The goal is to realize that the view point can be changed and new things can be perceived. Creating inner silence through meditation helps loosen this view point because without your inner dialogue constantly telling you how the world is that allows you to experience different things your internal dialogue would normally tell you is impossible or irrational.

A voice tells you, "Your fat, your fat, your fat." So you begin to act like a fat person and you gain weight. If the voice stopped you could act differently thus be a different person.

Or imagine there is a voice constantly telling you, "You can't do that, you can't do that, you can't do that, you can't do that." That is what you would begin to believe. If one day the voice stopped then your beliefs could change and that would allow you to experience new things because what you believe you will manifest. This can be proven with the placebo effect.

Allow me to give you an example of how the internal dialogue creates your reality. A mother loses her only child and is unable to cope with the loss. She convinces herself (through internal talk) that her child is not dead, but just away some where. She may even look for the child and ask you to help her find the child. If you tell her, "I'm sorry, but your baby is dead" the mother may say, "No that's not true they're at a summer camp" or any irrational lie she can think of to keep the reality that her child is still alive still going. You could make the argument that she is delusional and that may be true, but nevertheless in the subjective reality she is experiencing her baby is still alive and well to her.

 

[Badjedidude]

If it's not there how could you experience it?

I think you seriously underestimate (or simply don't understand) the power of imagination. It's entirely possible to feel as though you've experienced something... even if it's not there. And if you perceive that you've experienced something... then it doesn't really matter to you whether it was actually there or not. Because you believe you felt it, regardless of the truth of its existence. So to you, for all intents and purposes, it does exist. The power of belief and self-delusion in the human mind is quite fascinating.

Even though this is slightly off topic I will say that for starters they don't make you imagine things. To imagine something is to form a mental picture of it in your mind. The mushrooms allow you to experience energy that is there, but not normally perceived by your senses.

Do you have proof of your claims? That mushrooms allow your brain to tap into some sort of hidden energy that exists but can't otherwise be perceived?

I don't think you do.

I think the more reasonable, provable claim is that mushrooms DO chemically alter your brainwaves or your perceptive processes and tap into certain parts of the brain, resulting in dream-like, imaginative experiences driven by your own brain.

 

[LeaningIntoTheMuse]

It's only when you start answering yourself, that you have problems.

 

[Focused_Intent]

So to you, for all intents and purposes, it does exist.

That is precisely what I am saying. If you experience something then it exists and it's not a hallucination. In fact I am saying that there is no such thing as a hallucination and that consensus perception does not make something more real. The reason I asked the question how can you experience something that is not there was to provoke thought. You can't experience something that is not there so if you have an experience then you are experiencing something real.

Do you have proof of your claims? That mushrooms allow your brain to tap into some sort of hidden energy that exists but can't otherwise be perceived?

I don't think you do.

I think the more reasonable, provable claim is that mushrooms DO chemically alter your brainwaves or your perceptive processes and tap into certain parts of the brain, resulting in dream-like, imaginative experiences driven by your own brain.

Everything is energy and energy is everywhere in many different forms. As I said earlier humans are only perceiving a small fraction of what is actually there.

 

[Badjedidude]

Everything is energy and energy is everywhere in many different forms. As I said earlier humans are only perceiving a small fraction of what is actually there.

Yeah, I understand that.

But it doesn't prove that mushrooms are somehow tapping into unperceived energies.

I still don't quite see how you make the leap from:

Humans only perceive a certain amount of energies.

To:

Mushrooms allow humans to perceive the previously unperceived energies.

You still have to show somehow that mushrooms are some sort of catalyst or agent that taps into unperceived energies, as opposed to simply changing a brain's chemistry to the point where the brain experiences a minor malfunction such as hallucination or imagination.

 

[WildernessWildChild]

Why are the voices in my head making me think of Fonzie and sharks when I see this thread now???

 

[Focused_Intent]

Mushrooms open your doors of perception this is why they are considered a power plant and many shamans believe mushrooms allow you to see into the spiritual world. For you to be able to experience something it must have energy otherwise you wouldn't be able to experience it. It is not my belief that a chemical reaction can cause that type of an experience. But I also don't agree with science that consciousness originates from the brain. The brain is the creation of consciousness and science is slowly beginning to figure this out.

 

[Badjedidude]

Mushrooms open your doors of perception this is why they are considered a power plant and many shamans believe mushrooms allow you to see into the spiritual world. It is not my belief that a chemical reaction can cause that type of an experience. But I also don't agree with science that consciousness originates from the brain. The brain is the creation of consciousness and science is slowly beginning to figure this out.

No, mushrooms alter your perception. Again, you're bringing spirituality and mystical energies into this with no proof to back it up.

And I don't care if you don't believe that mushrooms cause chemical alterations in the human body that can change the brain... it's proven science. It's a fact; it's not something that's up for interpretation or personal opinion.

Here's a really basic explanation of how psychedelic mushrooms affect the brain:

http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/mush.html

For you to be able to experience something it must have energy otherwise you wouldn't be able to experience it.

I thought we'd already covered this.

It is entirely possible to feel that you've experienced something that objectively doesn't exist or have energy. Or to experience something and misinterpret it as something else.

 

[running with pain]

It's only when you start answering yourself, that you have problems.

i have yet to get that far into insanity

 

[Focused_Intent]

No, mushrooms alter your perception. Again, you're bringing spirituality and mystical energies into this with no proof to back it up.

And I don't care if you don't believe that mushrooms cause chemical alterations in the human body that can change the brain... it's proven science. It's a fact; it's not something that's up for interpretation or personal opinion.

Here's a really basic explanation of how psychedelic mushrooms affect the brain:

Yes I know all this, I know what people believe about brain chemistry. If you choose to believe that all the emotions you feel and everything you experience is chemical reactions taking place in the brain then so be it. We can simply agree to disagree because it is all opinion. I only want to encourage people to create inner silence through meditation. And if you do believe that everything is chemical reactions then you could then conclude that meditation causes the pineal gland to release DMT through EM vibrations causing people to experience hallucinations and feelings of joy. All of it being a part of the imagination of the person. And what that would also mean is that the entire reality you are experiencing is the result of more than 100,000 chemical reactions that go on in your brain every second. I couldn't possible think of a more morose left brained (logical instead of intuition) conclusion.

It is entirely possible to feel that you've experienced something that objectively doesn't exist or have energy. Or to experience something and misinterpret it as something else.

When you imagine something you are giving it your attention. The act of paying attention to something gives it your energy.

 

[Badjedidude]

Yes I know all this, I know what people believe about brain chemistry. If you choose to believe that all the emotions you feel and everything you experience is chemical reactions taking place in the brain then so be it. We can simply agree to disagree because it is all opinion. I only want to encourage people to create inner silence through meditation. And if you do believe that everything is chemical reactions then you could then conclude that meditation causes the pineal gland to release DMT through EM vibrations causing people to experience hallucinations and feelings of joy. All of it being a part of the imagination of the person. And what that would also mean is that the entire reality you are experiencing is the result of more than 100,000 chemical reactions that go on in your brain every second. I couldn't possible think of a more morose left brained (logical instead of intuition) conclusion.

No, we can't "agree to disagree."

It's not opinion that chemical reactions and changes in the brain alter or cause emotions. It's fact. That's how brains work. That's how thought itself works; our neurons fire and interact with one another, electricity shoots through our brains and we have physical reactions with things like serotonin, epinephrine, dopamine, etc. For example, a spike in serotonin in the human brain can make a person depressed and suicidal, along with the other physical effects it has on the body.

Obviously we're not going to get anywhere if you can't even understand basic science.

It has nothing to do with what you or I "believe." It's scientific fact.

When you imagine something you are giving it your attention. The act of paying attention to something gives it your energy.

Are you implying that one can think something into existence? Or that there's some sort of transfer of energy to something when a person imagines that something?

If that's what you're talking about...

...feel free to offer any proof whatsoever.

Actually, please don't.

I think I'm done here.

 

[perfanoff]

The brain creates the thought process and emotions but these do not and cannot explain consciousness.

The soul is a funny thing, there is no physical explanation for it, furthermore science has explained that basically a human is and can be an automaton (and has DESCRIBED to a large part how it works) _YET_ I can be dead certain that my consciousness exists. Because it IS there. It's a much more direct, irrefutable evidence than physics is. Or reality.

 

[Badjedidude]

The brain creates the thought process and emotions but these do not and cannot explain consciousness.

Why not?

The soul is a funny thing, there is no physical explanation for it

Who says a specific construct like a soul even exists?

I don't know why people have such a hard time believing that consciousness is simply a result of humans having the most advanced brains on the planet. I see no proof for a soul. I see no proof to assume that consciousness stems from anything other than physical processes. It's quite a leap to assume that there's some separate aspect of us that exists beyond the physical. Why is such a leap even necessary? Because you feel it must be so? That's just not good enough of a reason for me to believe in a soul. Or religion, for that matter.

What's so horrible about the thought that we're just physical beings, our consciousness the result of physical phenomenon? Does that invalidate our existence?

I don't think so.

 

[9006]

I don't know why people have such a hard time believing that consciousness is simply a result of humans having the most advanced brains on the planet. I see no proof for a soul. I see no proof to assume that consciousness stems from anything other than physical processes. It's quite a leap to assume that there's some separate aspect of us that exists beyond the physical. Why is such a leap even necessary? Because you feel it must be so? That's just not good enough of a reason for me to believe in a soul. Or religion, for that matter.

I think some people have an open mind and think that there's a chance that not everything can be explained by man-made constructs.

 

[Badjedidude]

I think some people have an open mind and think that there's a chance that not everything can be explained by man-made constructs.

Having an open mind =/= believing wild claims without evidence.

Maybe I just value provable truths too much.

 

[Focused_Intent]

Are you implying that one can think something into existence?

Yes, absolutely! Thought is the creative force. This is where the idea of a Golem from Jewish folklore came from. (also a poltergeist)

 

[Badjedidude]

Yes, absolutely! Thought is the creative force. This is where the idea of a Golem from Jewish folklore came from. (also a poltergeist)

Wow.

I really am done here.

 

[9006]

Having an open mind =/= believing wild claims without evidence.

Maybe I just value provable truths too much.

Right, but one persons wild claims is another persons logic, weather they're crazy or not

EDIT: Example above!

 

[Badjedidude]

Right, but one persons wild claims is another persons logic, weather they're crazy or not

Yeah... except that's not how logic works.

If logic is a subjective thing open to interpretation and personal belief, then it isn't valid logic.

I don't care if a guy makes wild claims about his ability to fly if he jumps off a building. Once he jumps, he might think he can fly, and he can call that "truth" all he wants... but he can't fly. No matter how hard he wishes to fly, he's just not going to. Because that's not how the universe works. There is an objective reality that isn't open to interpretation and opinion. He's going to hit the ground and most likely die.

In the same vein, a person can call their wild claims, "logic" all they want. But that doesn't make it logic or true.

If this makes me "closed-minded," then so be it.