Some insightful notes on eugenics

[lifestream]

To any mods who may be reading this, is there a way that threads about eugenics can be immediately closed or moved to the debate section of the forum? They seem to devolve into arguments quite rapidly.

 

[TheRealCallie]

You don't have to like what I say. I don't really care if you do or not.

It is ironic you'd say this, because the same applies to me and everyone else here. So if you do not like what I have to say then why is anyone to care? Why is anyone to care about anything either of us say, for that matter?

The truth is what matters here, not what is said or isn't said.

I don't recall saying no one else could say what they wanted. What I said is that Lowlander is not at fault here and neither is anyone "like him." Considering the OP doesn't even know what Lowlander is "like," it's entirely bullshit to blame him for something like this and yes, I will stand up for people in this kind of situation, regardless of who the person is. It's one thing to not like something that someone says and it's a different thing to accuse someone they don't even know of ruining their life.

I'm entitled to my opinion and I said it.

I always love this excuse. It's always the excuse of someone who knows they are wrong and does not want to admit it. They start calling their beliefs and statements "opinions" and then act as if there is some sort of fundamental entitlement to stating these horrible things and hurting other people. As if anyone ever gave you that right.
I've seen this enough times to know that it is complete nonsense. No one has ever entitled you to state things that aren't true. In fact, that is THE fundamental premise of wrong-doing. What we call 'lies'. Recognize it.

Yeah, I guess you really do love that excuse, since you've used it yourself. I'm not admitting I'm wrong about anything and I won't because I'm not. He unfairly blamed "people like" lowlander because he doesn't want to admit to himself that he's the one that made his life miserable, and that's true for anyone, not just him.
You don't think it's just as hurtful to blame someone else, A COMPLETE STRANGER for their own problems? You don't think it's just as hurtful to attack someone that stood up for someone else?
But yeah, you might want to look at the original post before you go spouting off about posting something that is untrue, because that's exactly what the OP is doing in this very thread. He is trying to pass off his OPINION as the truth and attacking anyone who disagrees with him.

I'm not looking to coddle people and I never will do that. Take what you like and leave the rest, m'kay?

And I'm not looking to coddle you or anyone else either. The difference is I have the facts and you're just laying down blame and accusing people for being a victim.

You really don't get it, do you?
Well, I didn't like anything you had to say, and I won't "leave the rest". Because harmful statements are harmful, and I don't sit by and idly watch as people do harm to others. It's something that I've had to learn not to tolerate, even slightly.

So I will not leave the rest. If you want to argue, then explain your statements. How can you blame him for his circumstances? And how can you blame a complete stranger? Recognize your hypocrisy.
Maybe you don't like what he says, but that doesn't entitle you to any right to suggest he is to blame for everything that happens to him. As I said before, wrong is wrong. If you say you own up to your mistakes, then do what is right here and own up to this one.

I'm not looking to offend you, but do realize what sort of harm you're doing. Blaming someone for blaming someone isn't right, and it's even worse when your blame is for things not even relevant to the act.

I don't want to be cruel here, but what you're doing is very much like the people who blame rape victims for "wanting it", when the person being accused is someone they trust. The situation is obviously very different, but the reasoning is exactly the same - and it is horrific. There is absolutely no logic to it whatsoever. This is something you NEED to recognize.

Oh, you have the facts do you? Oh please, do tell me these wonderful "facts" that entitle you to pass judgment on me.
You don't have to tolerate what you don't want to, but I sure as hell don't either and I won't allow other people to blame others for things that are NOT their fault and never were.
I already explained my stance on "blame," so I'm not likely to repeat myself. Yes, something we agree on, wrong is wrong and it's most definitely not right to blame someone because they don't agree with what you say. Yeah, that is WRONG. I won't own up to the mistakes YOU think I've made in your "righteous" mission to make yourself look like a saint.

I won't even bother to acknowledge that last paragraph, other than to say I can't even begin to tell you how hilarious I find it that you said that to me. It's not me that NEEDS to recognize.

 

[there is no hope]

Thank you Despicable Me.

I don't want to argue my point, people who believe in eugenics can't be negotiated with ever.

All I will say is - I am very much living in this situation now, and finding my life thrown into imminent ruin, thanks to malicious social workers who were assisted by someone whose intentions were to inflict harm on my family for her personal reasons. They're happy to ruin someone on the whim of another's malicious intent.

The person who intends harm on my family believes in eugenic principles, and has stated so repeatedly. That her own son is suffering in school, because she is an incompetent mother, is apparently lost on her - but she's all too happy to twist the knife in my throat. I believe he is in for the same fate as me, but I know there will be no help for him, especially not from an incompetent mother and drunken father. All for eugenics.

 

[Despicable Me]

Third, this is clearly a matter of opinions. You can't expect to bash all people who think differently and call them liars because they don't believe in your point of view.

Facts are facts and not to be confused with opinions, as you are doing. If your "point of view" does not translate over to those facts then you are wrong, regardless.
So please do not dismiss everything as mere "opinion". There is a fundamental and obvious difference between fact and opinion and it's obvious when one is used over the other in a statement.

Some example:
"I like pie" is a fact.
"Pie tastes good" is an opinion, not everyone thinks pie tastes good.
"You are to blame" is a statement given as a fact, and true only depending on the situation.
"I think you are to blame" is an opinion because it acknowledges your own thoughts and therefore your own ability to error.

I'm not arguing to dismiss anyone's opinions here. I was arguing to prove a point about getting your facts right and not mistaking your opinions and thoughts as facts.
I'm saying nothing different than HoodedMonk did earlier. You cannot use the excuse of 'Freedom of Speech' to justify your hate and desire "to make others feel like crap". There is no such freedom, there is always a price to pay for those kind of things.

 

[TheRealCallie]

I'm not arguing to dismiss anyone's opinions here. I was arguing to prove a point about getting your facts right and not mistaking your opinions and thoughts as facts.

There's a disclaimer in my siggy for a reason, perhaps you should try reading it.

 

[Despicable Me]

I'm not arguing to dismiss anyone's opinions here. I was arguing to prove a point about getting your facts right and not mistaking your opinions and thoughts as facts.

There's a disclaimer in my siggy for a reason, perhaps you should try reading it.

Disclaimers do not excuse you from being rude, malicious, and hurtful.
If you don't know this already then allow me to be the one to teach you.

 

[TheRealCallie]

I'm not arguing to dismiss anyone's opinions here. I was arguing to prove a point about getting your facts right and not mistaking your opinions and thoughts as facts.

There's a disclaimer in my siggy for a reason, perhaps you should try reading it.

Disclaimers do not excuse you from being rude, malicious, and hurtful.
If you don't know this already then allow me to be the one to teach you.

Yeah, because it's ME that's in this thread insulting people. Lol

The point of my siggy is that what I write are not FACTS, as you are so hell bent on making them, they are MY OPINIONS. Seriously, what the fresia, dude?

 

[Lowlander]

I am away for a mere two to three hours, I come back to this. What is wrong here?. People blaming others for no reason... OPINIONS people. Respect them. Instead of bashing anyone at the first opportunity, can't we just get along and be civilized? Instead of finding decent talk, I find blatant insults and shallow assumptions people make about someone else. This forum is supposed to be an outlet for people yes, but a helpful one, not a harmful one. We're here to help one another, not to insult. I also happen to notice it's mostly the same people who go sprouting about nonsense about others. People also should learn to read disclaimers and at least pretend to have a bit more intelligence.

Stop.
Doing.
That.

It's not fun.

 

[Despicable Me]

Yeah, because it's ME that's in this thread insulting people. Lol

The point of my siggy is that what I write are not FACTS, as you are so hell bent on making them, they are MY OPINIONS. Seriously, what the fresia, dude?

Yep, the old 'act innocent' routine. Quite familiar with that one, too.

Let me remind you then of what you've said, since you carelessly seem to forget:

You have no hope because you won't allow yourself to give yourself any. That's on YOU! Stop blaming other people for your life being as it is and start taking responsibility for yourself!

Here you clearly accuse him of causing his own problems - ignoring the obvious fact you know nothing about him or his problems.

You can call this an "opinion" all you want. But you state it as if it is a fact, because let's face it... That's how you mean it. That's how you think.
This 'disclaimer' of yours, your little innocent act, is nothing more than a means you use to say whatever you want without having to feel guilty about it later. A way of pretending to be innocent when you're really just being mean.

Now stop that act. I don't think it's fooling anyone.

Anyway, I'm done here. You can say you own up to your mistakes but saying something and actually practicing it are two very different things.

 

[there is no hope]

This isn't about opinions, this is about things that actually happened or are happening now, and an interpretation of why those things are happening. At least, that's my part and my intention.

 

[Wayfarer]

This isn't about opinions, this is about things that actually happened or are happening now, and an interpretation of why those things are happening. At least, that's my part and my intention.

With the only difference being that things that actually happened are facts, while interpretations are opinions. Just wanted to point out this. No offense meant.

 

[Lowlander]

It's funny how Despicable Me thinks they know Callie better than Callie. How does that work?



Also: Interpretations leave space for opinions and debate. But this is more insulting than anything else.

 

[Despicable Me]

It's funny how Despicable Me thinks they know Callie better than Callie. How does that work?

I could say the same thing about you thinking you know me better than I know myself. But really, what point do comments like that really make besides just being disrespectful?

You can quit it now, by the way. Yeah, we get it, your Callie's best-bud. No one cares.

 

[there is no hope]

This isn't about opinions, this is about things that actually happened or are happening now, and an interpretation of why those things are happening. At least, that's my part and my intention.

With the only difference being that things that actually happened are facts, while interpretations are opinions. Just wanted to point out this. No offense meant.

1. Of course offense is meant. So there's a fairly obvious lie from the start, one that in my OPINION (hur hur) is deliberately intended to form an argument appealing to brute power more than anything else. If you can prove the intention was not offensive then that's on you, but regardless of the intention, it is offensive. You just invalidated my argument on the basis that I am subhuman and retarded in your judgement, more than anything else.

2. You don't challenge an opinion by lambasting the person saying it, calling him invalid, shaming him. Those are essentially emotional arguments, and making the claim that someone has a false opinion (which is of course illogical).

3. This sort of thinking leads to the conclusion that judgements are personal and arbitrary. Essentially, any critical thinking process is replaced by doublethink, and reality becomes whatever someone wants it to be.

4. In the end, some people clearly believe that their opinions are more factual than mine, and that argument is essentially rooted in eugenic reasoning - I am invalid and lesser than them, and therefore they can decide my life. It is nothing more than a power trip.

5. This process, in thought and deed, is a large reason for the state of the present world.

6. Eugenics has failed in the mission most people believe it has. People are not significantly healthier (as far as genetically inherited conditions) than they were 100 years ago, and the health improvements are due to discoveries in anti-biotics, agriculture, wider distribution of food and resources, and a limited effort to re-distribute wealth with the conscious aim of preventing starvation (however much those programs are attached to ulterior motives, they are at least in theory intended to prevent the kind of mass famines that were common throughout history). Eugenists have had considerable control over who is allowed to reproduce and shown remarkable favoritism towards the eugenically correct in social ranking, but their immediate offspring are hardly super-men. This, of course, they blame on the existence of poor people and the eugenically invalid, as if their existence caused the Best and Brightest to suffer. Apparently the so-called supermen need protection from the lowest of the low, so they create prisons and institute widespread terror to make sure the underclass never forget their place.

7. It is my belief (and really hard to argue against) that the eugenic ideology is inherently destructive, and will always be so, no matter how much it is re-packaged and sold to the public - or more accurately, force-fed through repeated propaganda to the public, not so much so that people believe in eugenics but in order to rob them of any sense of the world around them, and that there could be a world where eugenics was truly dead, ridiculed as the horrible idea that it is.

8. Even if one subscribes to the less-obvious aims of the eugenic movement - that is, fashioning the populace into soldiers, laborers, enforcers, in order to control society - there is enough evidence to suggest that the way they are controlling populations has failed to produce a functioning society. Eugenics was intended for a world where massive national armies would bleed themselves dry in a world war, which is exactly what happened in the last decade and very well could have happened on a large scale many times. Such a war is unlikely to occur again - not that way, and not through those means. Eugenics has left humanity intellectually and spiritually retarded, chasing after ghosts and believing in the worst kind of magical thinking.

9. Eugenics is thus insane and illogical, and the inmates are running the asylum.

Not so much a reasoned argument, but I numbered everything at least. That should count for something, right?

 

[Lowlander]

So .. are you going to bash at me now? Good luck. This is completely getting off-topic, I don't even know why I'm wasting my energy replying to you or some other people in here to begin with. Quitting is indeed a good advice in this case, I thank you for that. I'd advice you to quit this topic as well though, before you insult more people.

I'm Callie's best-bud, you say? I find the level of hypocrisy astounding. You assume I'm her best-bud but you really don't know anything about me. So, you're trying to point a finger at me .. while all you have to do is look at yourself to begin with.

Have a nice day!

---

I wonder why this thread isn't closed already, to be honest.

 

[there is no hope]

*shrugs* I'm fine with closing this thread, but maybe you and Callie should re-consider how you speak on a day-to-day basis, before demanding others bend to your will.

 

[Despicable Me]

Quitting is indeed a good advice in this case, I thank you for that. I'd advice you to quit this topic as well though, before you insult more people.

I haven't come here to insult anyone. Anyone who finds the truth to be insulting should probably re-evaluate their perspective on life.

But indeed, we should all quit now. Only reason I keep coming back is due to your own statements trying to throw me, alone, under the bus. I really don't like that sort of backhanded talk, quite honestly. If the mods find me to blame for everything, so be it, but that is not for you to decide. It takes quite a bit of nerve to act so innocent while simultaneously insulting someone. So if you don't mind, if you want to insult me just do it directly. No more silly games. I can respect people's opinions more when they say what they mean, rather than trying to beat around the bush.

 

[Wayfarer]

1. Of course offense is meant. So there's a fairly obvious lie from the start, one that in my OPINION (hur hur) is deliberately intended to form an argument appealing to brute power more than anything else. If you can prove the intention was not offensive then that's on you, but regardless of the intention, it is offensive. You just invalidated my argument on the basis that I am subhuman and retarded in your judgement, more than anything else.

First off, when I say I don't mean it, I don't mean it. Second I was not attacking your opinion. It was actually meant as an answer to Despicable Me, which was saying I can't differentiate between opinions and facts. I guess I should have specified it, my bad.

3. This sort of thinking leads to the conclusion that judgements are personal and arbitrary. Essentially, any critical thinking process is replaced by doublethink, and reality becomes whatever someone wants it to be.

hmm I suggest you look up the definition of judgment first. I also could easily throw these words back at you, but I won't. Read the whole post first.

4. In the end, some people clearly believe that their opinions are more factual than mine, and that argument is essentially rooted in eugenic reasoning - I am invalid and lesser than them, and therefore they can decide my life. It is nothing more than a power trip.

Whoever said this?

It might surprise you (given that you think I am so against your opinion) that I am against eugenics, seen as a means to privilege some people over others. I believe everyone has a right to live and bear offspring, if they so desire.

8. Even if one subscribes to the less-obvious aims of the eugenic movement - that is, fashioning the populace into soldiers, laborers, enforcers, in order to control society

uhm some evidence backing this claim?