World has gone to sh-t

[lonelydoc]

I know it sounds like a broken record, and it can certainly depress people more, but it's true. I mean, what will it take for you people to admit it?

We have rapidly overpopulated the planet and are drawing down the earth's finite supply of resources so that a few amazingly wealthy old people can get even wealthier. We are depleting the oil, wiping out entire species, polluting the air, warming and acidifying the oceans, and patting ourselves on the back for a job well done.

We work, work, our entire lives to pay taxes to corrupt governments that distribute money to themselves and to wasteful projects for big corporations. We work, work, to pay inflated rent and mortgage on overpriced homes, all so the banks can make even more money. And when the banks go bust, they are bailed out with more printed money, which creates even more inflation that we must work harder to overcome. The debts always increase, they are never paid back.

We get old, tired, broken before we even get to enjoy life, and then face medical bills that are designed to bankrupt us and our children, so they can face the same life of drudgery that we do.

All of this is labeled "progress"

If you complain about any of this, you have a few options:
1) *removed* - mod edit - that is not allowed here
2) go to prison

I'm afraid that we screwed up and screwed up big time. I place no hope in humanity, none at all.

Does anybody see any hope in their lives, or for humanity?

 

[VanillaCreme]

Perhaps it will be better one day. But I honestly don't see it happening in my lifetime.

 

[HoodedMonk]

Greed and selfishness are the root of all evil, imo.

 

[Tiina63]

I pretty much agree with you. Am glad I am getting older as I wouldn't want to be at the start of my adult life in this day and age with the way things are going.

 

[Minus]

You may leave here for four days in space
But when you return it's the same old place
The pounding of the drums, the pride and disgrace
You can bury your dead but don't leave a trace
Hate your next door neighbor but don't forget to say grace

 

[Despicable Me]

I know it sounds like a broken record, and it can certainly depress people more, but it's true. I mean, what will it take for you people to admit it?

I think you should look back and get to know your history.
When was the past any better?

We have rapidly overpopulated the planet

No we haven't. There is no truth to this statement. We have not reached any form of overpopulation and there is still plenty of food, water, and room for everyone, if things were divided fairly.

and are drawing down the earth's finite supply of resources so that a few amazingly wealthy old people can get even wealthier.

That's Capitalism for ya. There are alternatives, but I bet even you don't even want to accept them. Do ya? So doesn't that make you part of the problem, too?
Or maybe you do accept the alternative. So what are you going to do about that? Just rant on the internet about it?

We are depleting the oil

I think you mean "we are depleting oil at an alarming and unmaintainable rate". Using oil itself is not necessarily a problem, if it were maintainable.

wiping out entire species

To be fair, this hasn't quite happened so much as in the past. Humanity has been much better about protecting species than previously in history.

polluting the air

That's fair.

warming and acidifying the oceans

That's fair, too.

and patting ourselves on the back for a job well done.

Who's doing that? You? Your neighbors? Your friends? Your city?
I'm not, I can tell you that. I'm not part of this "We" you claim.

We work, work, our entire lives to pay taxes to corrupt governments that distribute money to themselves and to wasteful projects for big corporations. We work, work, to pay inflated rent and mortgage on overpriced homes, all so the banks can make even more money. And when the banks go bust, they are bailed out with more printed money, which creates even more inflation that we must work harder to overcome. The debts always increase, they are never paid back.

And again, that's Capitalism for you.
Can you tell me something, please? What are the alternatives called?
Do you even know them? Do you even want to know them?

Sorry to test you, but I want to see how much you actually know about this problem or if you're just ranting.

We get old, tired, broken before we even get to enjoy life, and then face medical bills that are designed to bankrupt us and our children, so they can face the same life of drudgery that we do.

Just to point this out, but you're speaking of the US, mainly, as practically every other modern country in the world has Universal Healthcare. And even in the US, around the age of retirement people do get some medical benefits. They have to lead you with that dangling carrot, after all.
And, of course, the US does not compose the entire "World" you were previously speaking of. So you're going a little off-topic.

All of this is labeled "progress"

By whom?
Again, not me!

If you complain about any of this, you have a few options:
1) *removed* - mod edit - that is not allowed here
2) go to prison

I'm not sure what the mod edited there, I think I know but not entirely sure, but these are obviously not all of the options anyway.

And what makes 'going to prison' an option for people who complain about this stuff? I don't see the connection there, at least not directly.

I'm afraid that we screwed up and screwed up big time. I place no hope in humanity, none at all.

"We", "We", "We"... I know you're talking about humanity in general, but you constantly use this term as if we're all doing this all the time. As if we all actively participate and want and desire this to happen.

Does anybody see any hope in their lives, or for humanity?

I do, but I'm not someone who sees things the way others do.
That's why I'm curious, how do you really see all of this? Do you really not see any solutions?

 

[HoodedMonk]

You may leave here for four days in space
But when you return it's the same old place
The pounding of the drums, the pride and disgrace
You can bury your dead but don't leave a trace
Hate your next door neighbor but don't forget to say grace

Where is that from?

 

[lonelyfairy]

I agree with you. I don't have anything to add.

 

[LonelySutton]

I know it sounds like a broken record, and it can certainly depress people more, but it's true. I mean, what will it take for you people to admit it?

Oh I admit it freely.

which creates even more inflation that we must work harder to overcome. The debts always increase, they are never paid back.

Sing it.

All I am hoping for is that I die before the house of cards falls in. I am currently debating quitting my job, though I just got a new great boss. All of what you said is true but I take a train to work and it just flat up doesn't work anymore. I have NO option anymore. All the parking has gone away due to useless construction. Every day my train is late and every day I have to give my leave time to make up for it. Absolutely NO one in government gives a crud at all and so I will continue to be at the whims of this -- for this pleasure I pay and obscene amount of money per month and get no service. The actual cost between parking and the transport and the leave that I have to submit for them being grossly late.. it is 400 or so a month just for transportation.

Then there is never a day that the train is not packed to the brim like India. And no one cares. NO ONE.

I continue to hold on hoping against hope something will change for the better but I continue to know in my heart that at this point.... things are so bad I seriously think Jail MIGHT actually be something you want.

Think about it... you get health care... you get to stay away from toxins such as air pollution / other pollutions... you get to sit around most of the day and exercise / grow your mind.

I take some comfort in the fact that there seems to be an entire generation that has opted out, and is working at things like Uber and Lyft and also living in mini houses and finding ways to spend little money and live off the land / plants.

 

[SofiasMami]

Of course the world has gone to honeysuckle. Who would deny it here? This is A Lonely Life not A Happy Life with Unicorns that Fart Rainbows and Glitter.
Most of the problems you describe are endemic to the US. I've thought about going abroad again since I know the rest of the world isn't the same as the US.
Although humans are greedy, impulsive and violent everywhere, not just in the US.
Whenever I start thinking the world has gone to honeysuckle, I remind myself how lucky I have it. I live in a house with running water, electricity and a toilet. I make a good salary and never have to think twice about seeing a doctor or dentist. My daughter goes to a good school. I can walk freely outside and my kid can play outside in the neighborhood without worrying about a mortar shell or a sniper ending us. I've never been forced to walk miles to a refugee camp.
I heard a saying once I think by a famous person who led a pretty shitty life - it's better to light a candle than curse the darkness.
Yeah, the world has gone to the dump but I'm not in that rabbit hole at the moment because I'm not depressed.
Just wondering, have you ever been checked for depression, doc?

-Teresa

 

[mickey]

You appear to be talking about the _human_ world as opposed to the larger world hosted by our planet, which contains a million times more living things than the entire human population. It's not wise to overestimate the impact that our own world has on that larger world, because in practice the impact is negligible. If nature bounced back from an asteroid impact and multiple ice ages, it can bounce back from human depredation. Humans might not be around to enjoy the bounceback, but I don't consider that totally a bad thing.

There's also the fact that any one person has limited ambit even within the human world. People are opting out because we're realizing that the human world is now too populous for anyone or any group to change wholesale, so we're focusing on making our own lives better and improving the lot of those closest to us. That is the 21st-century way and I think it's a good way. You might want to embrace it.

 

[Despicable Me]

we're focusing on making our own lives better and improving the lot of those closest to us. That is the 21st-century way and I think it's a good way. You might want to embrace it.

And how is that any different than what people already do now?
If you're only caring about yourselves and those closest to you, isn't that exactly the same thing everyone else does that you're condemning them for?

Basically sounds just like giving everyone else in the world a big old 'Screw you', resigning to the default 'because I just don't care anymore', or 'because trying is too hard', statement.

 

[mickey]

we're focusing on making our own lives better and improving the lot of those closest to us. That is the 21st-century way and I think it's a good way. You might want to embrace it.

And how is that any different than what people already do now?
If you're only caring about yourselves and those closest to you, isn't that exactly the same thing everyone else does that you're condemning them for?

Basically sounds just like giving everyone else in the world a big old 'Screw you', resigning to the default 'because I just don't care anymore', or 'because trying is too hard', statement.

It's not a matter of "screw you." If someone asks for help, you can still try to help them to the extent you're able. What I'm arguing against is a juvenile I-wanna-change-the-world attitude. With 8 billion people the world is too big to be changed deliberately by any one person or manageably-sized group. It sucks, but we have to accept that the time for dead heroes is past, and we are all bit players now, even those with the highest public profiles.

 

[Despicable Me]

It's not a matter of "screw you." If someone asks for help, you can still try to help them to the extent you're able. What I'm arguing against is a juvenile I-wanna-change-the-world attitude. With 8 billion people the world is too big to be changed deliberately by any one person or manageably-sized group. It sucks, but we have to accept that the time for dead heroes is past, and we are all bit players now, even those with the highest public profiles.

But that's exactly what I'm hearing. A big "Screw you!" to everyone else.
Yeah, you can help some people, but you're really just helping people you personally care about in the end. Everyone else in the world is still screwed.
This is exactly the same ideology that has been followed for millennia. There is nothing new or "21st Century" about this. What exactly do you think you're changing here?

You call it "juvenile" to want to change the world, but is it really? Maybe it's an unrealistic goal to want to do it, but does that really make it childish to try, and to attempt it?
So many people said it was pretty childish and juvenile to believe that mankind could ever travel around the world, or to fly, or to reach the moon but you know what? We did it anyway. Because dreams can become reality when you try hard enough.
You think that is juvenile? I could not possibly disagree with you more. If you think this is childish then go right ahead and think that. Guess I'm always going to be a kid at heart.

 

[SofiasMami]

You appear to be talking about the _human_ world as opposed to the larger world hosted by our planet, which contains a million times more living things than the entire human population. It's not wise to overestimate the impact that our own world has on that larger world, because in practice the impact is negligible. If nature bounced back from an asteroid impact and multiple ice ages, it can bounce back from human depredation. Humans might not be around to enjoy the bounceback, but I don't consider that totally a bad thing.

There's also the fact that any one person has limited ambit even within the human world. People are opting out because we're realizing that the human world is now too populous for anyone or any group to change wholesale, so we're focusing on making our own lives better and improving the lot of those closest to us. That is the 21st-century way and I think it's a good way. You might want to embrace it.

I agree. Yes, humanity has gone to pot but there's nothing wrong with helping ourselves and those closest to us. Most people do that anyway.


P.S. I call straw man, Despicable Me. Try to come up with a more persuasive argument.

-Teresa

 

[Despicable Me]

P.S. I call straw man, Despicable Me. Try to come up with a more persuasive argument.

There was no straw man in that argument. The user explicitly stated that it was 'juvenile' to think you could change the world.
If anything your statement calling my argument a straw man was the actual straw man.

You're just stating this because you agree with mickey and don't want to admit that what I said is completely true.

Try again.

 

[user 115627]

But that's exactly what I'm hearing. A big "Screw you!" to everyone else.
Yeah, you can help some people, but you're really just helping people you personally care about in the end. Everyone else in the world is still screwed.
This is exactly the same ideology that has been followed for millennia. There is nothing new or "21st Century" about this. What exactly do you think you're changing here?

If everyone would just help another handful of people it would actually make a lot of difference. And you don't need to be close to someone or know them personally to help them out. Everyday you can just contribute your one percent that matters, by your own conditions.

You call it "juvenile" to want to change the world, but is it really? Maybe it's an unrealistic goal to want to do it, but does that really make it childish to try, and to attempt it?
So many people said it was pretty childish and juvenile to believe that mankind could ever travel around the world, or to fly, or to reach the moon but you know what? We did it anyway. Because dreams can become reality when you try hard enough.
You think that is juvenile? I could not possibly disagree with you more. If you think this is childish then go right ahead and think that. Guess I'm always going to be a kid at heart.

...do you practice what you preach?

 

[Despicable Me]

If everyone would just help another handful of people it would actually make a lot of difference. And you don't need to be close to someone or know them personally to help them out. Everyday you can just contribute your one percent that matters, by your own conditions.

But like I said... This is what is already going on!
It's not changing anything. It's not doing anything different. It's certainly not going to change the world.

And what stops these people from only helping people like themselves, the people 'they care about' (even if they don't know them personally)? What stops them from being racist, bigoted, ignorant, etc.? If everyone is just focused on just their own little world, helping those around them, this is the natural outcome.

Some of you guys might THINK this sounds like it's different than the way the world works now but it's really not at all. It's giving up and just becoming like everyone else. I've seen how this works in reality, and it always turns out that way. People get too preoccupied with their own little worlds to understand the bigger issues and try to actually do something about it.

It's an outright lie that there are no heroes anymore. Anyone can be a hero if they want to be and if they try their best.
It's completely untrue that you can't change the world by yourself, because people have done it before.
It's ridiculously false to believe that you can't change larger groups in the world just because they don't want to change, because with enough passion and enough courage you can create your own movement and overwhelm those people. You can create change. It only takes the courage to constantly push forward.

You don't do it alone, you do it by convincing others that they should not be alone.

Convincing yourself that these falsehoods are true is the root of the problem. It's also why I won't stand for it.
Everyone wants to just resign from the fight because, in reality, they don't really want the world to change. They want it stay the way it is because they like having the advantage they have of being able to make that decision. Because they're actually in the position to decide.

Your "one percent" isn't enough. It's just an excuse for everyone else to pick up that 99% that you're not doing.

...do you practice what you preach?

What does that even mean, in this context?

Do I tell people it's juvenile that they want to change the world? Of course not.
Do I always stand up for what is right and argue that others should, too? What else do you see me doing here?
Do I actually CHANGE the world? That's asking too much of me. I am one person who is looking for others to help me create change. I haven't gotten there yet, but I'm trying.
You can't expect more than that, it would be like saying people who believed NASA could put someone on the moon should have all walked on the moon themselves.

I will get there someday. I won't let anything stop me.

So you tell me if I do or not.

 

[mickey]

Since things are getting nasty here I'm going to unsubscribe from the thread. My parting thought is that people get too exercised about clusters of pixels on the internet. At no time in human history has the sticks-and-stones principle been more important than in the internet age. I learned that the hard way, by having to figure it out for myself, and hope others don't need to do the same.

 

[user 115627]

But like I said... This is what is already going on!
It's not changing anything. It's not doing anything different. It's certainly not going to change the world.

And what stops these people from only helping people like themselves, the people 'they care about' (even if they don't know them personally)? What stops them from being racist, bigoted, ignorant, etc.? If everyone is just focused on just their own little world, helping those around them, this is the natural outcome.

Some of you guys might THINK this sounds like it's different than the way the world works now but it's really not at all. It's giving up and just becoming like everyone else. I've seen how this works in reality, and it always turns out that way. People get too preoccupied with their own little worlds to understand the bigger issues and try to actually do something about it.

It's an outright lie that there are no heroes anymore. Anyone can be a hero if they want to be and if they try their best.
It's completely untrue that you can't change the world by yourself, because people have done it before.
It's ridiculously false to believe that you can't change larger groups in the world just because they don't want to change, because with enough passion and enough courage you can create your own movement and overwhelm those people. You can create change. It only takes the courage to constantly push forward.

You don't do it alone, you do it by convincing others that they should not be alone.

Convincing yourself that these falsehoods are true is the root of the problem. It's also why I won't stand for it.
Everyone wants to just resign from the fight because, in reality, they don't really want the world to change. They want it stay the way it is because they like having the advantage they have of being able to make that decision. Because they're actually in the position to decide.

Your "one percent" isn't enough. It's just an excuse for everyone else to pick up that 99% that you're not doing.

So you say. And once again you seem to believe you can force others into acceptance and tolerance by telling them all the things that are wrong with them. Nothing stops these people from helping only themselves, but you aren't stopping them either with that kinda talk.

If you want to change people for the better, show them something inspiring right before their eyes. By not being racist, bigoted or ignorant. It's the snowball principle. Sometimes it's just about showing there's still decency in this world. A stranger's little act of kindness and impartiality can go a long way.

I believe you become a hero by not trying to become one, but by merely doing the right thing day after day. Being marked a hero does most people no good in the long run anyway. Once people start idealizing you, they stop doing anything by themselves because they think you are not as good and capable as you are. They might still listen to you, but they don't understand you anymore because they can't approach you as equal.

I just wonder how that "overwhelming" looks to you. The more I listen, the more it sounds like the famous "We have to cleanse the earth with fire first" approach. And I don't like that very much as I pointed out before.

What does that even mean, in this context?

Do I tell people it's juvenile that they want to change the world? Of course not.
Do I always stand up for what is right and argue that others should, too? What else do you see me doing here?
Do I actually CHANGE the world? That's asking too much of me. I am one person who is looking for others to help me create change. I haven't gotten there yet, but I'm trying.
You can't expect more than that, it would be like saying people who believed NASA could put someone on the moon should have all walked on the moon themselves.

I will get there someday. I won't let anything stop me.

So you tell me if I do or not.

So as long as you conserve your idealistic mindset without actually doing anything beyond arguing what is right and what needs to be done by your own standards, your one percent is better than everything else's.

I'm sorry, but we got enough of your likes already. People talking about big ideas and plans, aiming so high up the ladder that they think they can look down on everyone who starts making a change at the bottom - with actual deeds and not only with words. But these are the people that actually change the world by starting small and working their way up while you'll still stand at the bottom preaching.

And I remember very well how you didn't even want to share your "ideas" how you'd go on about changing the world if you were actually in charge, because they were so very despicable by common standards...but I forgot that you are oppressed, isn't that right? So no, I don't expect anything more than that from you.