Anyone ever try therapy?

[Equinox]

A few things:

1. You clearly have your own experience of therapy not working (probably because you didn't want to go, and thus didn't cooperate with your therapist, or maybe you were unlucky and got a therapist that wasn't good), and that's okay. However, your experience is your own, and a LOT of other people's experience is quite different. You talk about absolute truths and relative truths, but it seems to me that you fail to see the relative truths in your own words - which I find kind of ironic. So YOUR truth is the absolute one, while everybody else's are relative? That conclusion doesn't strike you as a bit odd, arrogant, or megalomaniac, even?

2. I could tell you with some level of detail what a therapist could do about social anxiety disorder (and Soul could probably tell you even more). Your naive answer to "tell her to just go outside" tell me that you have little to no experience or knowledge regarding therapy, which really renders most of your theories rather questionable, at best. The fact that you think therapists only "talk randomly about any given subject" clearly shows that you don't know what you're talking about. Perhaps that one therapist you once visited did that, but this is not what they usually do. Not only has therapy helped ME; I also have several friends with various mental issues who's received help from therapy. You can't accuse others of "not going deeper", when you don't seem to do this, yourself. You just say that "mental problems aren't real", but you don't explain where this statement is coming from, other than "that is not the way the mind works", and I have no reason to believe that you know anything about this. The fact is that nobody actually KNOWS how the mind does or does not work. It's our most complicated organ, and scientists are still working on it. They do, however, know a few things of how the brain usually responds to various things, which is what therapy is about.

3. It seems to me that you've pretty much made up your mind based on what this Lipton dude is saying. Since you're apparently very interested in "going deeper", might I suggest reading theories and research by other people as well, before worshipping this guy's theories?

4. Not all mental disorders are chronic states. Who told you that they are?

5. "Psychology" as a term is very wide. I have no doubt there are people, especially in the marketing business, who will use this to make more money, e.g. by making consumers believe they need to buy something in order to be happy. This isn't psychology's fault, however, it's the people who abuse it. Psychology can be a powerful tool, for those who know it. I don't see how this relates to whether or not therapy might help people with mental problems, though.

6. I'd appreciate it if you didn't go making wild assumptions about how I choose to examine the world, the truths I find, and to what extent I am willing to go deeper. You don't know me or my experiences, and stating assumptions like that is just rude. In its very nature, such assumptions also go against your own cause regarding "not going deeper" and "only examine the surface", as that is exactly what you're doing when you judge others like this. It's difficult to take anything you say seriously when you end your post with arrogant and empty assumpations about my character.

 

[Thrasymachus]

That is not just my experience, therapy does not work because it doesn't work(except by accident). It has incorrect metholodogies, it is based on the assumption that only dealing with the conscious mind can have an effect. If you actually sought out Bruce Lipton's expertise, you would have learned that the medical and biological fields generally don't take into account the new implications from relativity and quantum mechanics, instead they are stuck in the obsolete deterministic, Newtonian worldview.

There is nothing therapists can do to help someone with agoraphobia other than to tell them to go outside, because they ignore the pre-eminent role of the unconscious mind. They think spending years dealing with the conscious level can make a difference. As long as they ignore the much more powerful unconscious mind, they are even worse than witch doctors.

If you don't want people to think you are examining shallowly, don't give reason for that conclusion by going deeper. For example if therapists don't do so much random talking how did soul_in_isolation identify her therapist as friend like entity? I felt the same, that my therapist was some kind of colder friend you make appointments to see.

 

[Equinox]

Uhm. Yeah. Sooo ... your conclusion is that a person can only perceive someone as a friend like entity if they only do random talking. And therapy doesn't work because "it doesn't work". And apparently there are a helluva lot of people out there who "accidentally" feel better when seeing a therapist. Okay then. I think I'm done with this nonsense.

 

[oopsiedoop]

I went to therapy to get help with my problems and I've never gotten any -- close to ten times! Maybe things are different in Norway. I wouldn't be surprised. Here they do just have you talk randomly, and even in that they say the stupidest things, if they say anything at all. And I don't mean Freudian stupid things -- I mean like, "that was an unfortunate incident" and "it's a loss" (about my devastation over a couple of relationships), or "if you're not willing to ask questions..." (about my social anxiety in class), or the guy who gave me cookies when I cried, or the guy who thought a birthday card an ex-boyfriend sent which said "You're not getting better, you're getting bitter" was funny, or the guy who sat there literally saying nothing at all for nine months, or the guy who mocked everything I said..I could go on, THIS is therapeutic. And this is all they said! They weren't the beginnings of some talk about how to deal with it, it was the extent of their responses.

And the theories written about are no better. What is "exposure therapy"? A fancy name for "just do it". And what does cognitive therapy come down to? "Tell them they're wrong".

I agree that if anyone feels better, it could be called by accident in the sense that it's not any kind of method, but the accident whereby you find someone who's actually perceptive, or that just talking to someone is a help because people who go to therapists do so because they don't have anyone else who will listen.

 

[Equinox]

I'm sorry to hear you've had such negative experiences with your therapists. As with all professions, not all who works in it, should be doing so. There are bad therapists out there, but that doesn't mean therapy itself is pointless. There are also bad doctors, but that doesn't mean medicine doesn't work.

You ask about what exposure therapy and cognitive therapy is. I haven't experienced exposure therapy yet, so I can't say anything about that, but cognitive therapy is about learning techniques to control the way you think, to control your mind, basically; it enables meta thinking. E.g. when I get stuck in a "I hate myself, I'm so stupid and ugly" rant, there are techniques I can use to help me snap out of it, and these come from my therapist. It's far from easy, it takes hard work, and therapy isn't a "treatment" in the way medicine and surgery is a treatment for physical problems. Rather, therapy can provide you with the tools and techniques you need to cope with your issues. I'm currently working on my ability to shift focus, so that when I get lost in my negative thoughts, I'll stand a better chance to realize what's happening and to move my thoughts away from it. Makes sense, no?

I agree that if anyone feels better, it could be called by accident in the sense that it's not any kind of method, but the accident whereby you find someone who's actually perceptive, or that just talking to someone is a help because people who go to therapists do so because they don't have anyone else who will listen.

I disagree with this. I do have friends who will gladly listen to me rant about my problems. I, too, am more than happy to listen to other friends rant about theirs. None of us, however, know enough about the human mind and its thought process to offer guidance as to how to deal with this stuff. Sure, we give each other advice and support, and sometimes that is enough. However, it only makes me feel better during those moments, and when I'm alone again, my issues return - unless I know how to keep them at bay. This is what therapy enables me to do.

I also believe that if therapy didn't actually do any good for the majority of its patients, we wouldn't be spending time and money on it. Healthcare might be a corporate business thing in the US, but in Norway it's not, so we have no reason to spend resources on something that didn't work. There will always be exceptions, and therapy/psychology is far from near perfection, but it's a science and a constant work in process. Just 100 years ago, treatment to people with mental problems was to lock them in cells and basically expose them to torture. We've come a long way since then, and I think, as we discover more about our neurons and hormones, therapy will become more potent in the future.

 

[oopsiedoop]

You will occasionally get a bad doctor. That's not the case with mental health therapists. Regarding particular methods and schools, yours sounds good, she teaches you things that work, as long as it's not "think about something else". I mean, that wouldn't work for me. First of all, that's not anything common sense wouldn't make you try on your own, but more importantly, the thing that's bothering me is the thing I need addressed. So, regarding what you said about your issues returning, that's exactly how it is with the professionals I've encountered, because they don't address them -- at all. I maintain that the reason people spend the time and money is because they don't have anyone else. Yours does more than your friends do, but any friend I've ever had has done more for me than any therapist I've seen. In fact, it has been no different than if I'd talked to someone in a bar. Anyone can tell you "snap out of it", and most will. What's actually worked, if it does, is they listened to the problem, so you get the sense of social support, and then if all else fails maybe came up with the conclusion there's nothing you can really do about it so you might as well accept it, and if your situation is such that you can, you'll feel better. But woe to you if you need real help.

 

[Thrasymachus]

This is the amazing type of method you defend: "learning techniques to control the way you think, to control your mind, basically; it enables meta thinking?" That type of technique is almost totally useless. When you are caught up in an adverse moment, it is the least likely time you will remember or be inclined to do meta-thinking. Further consciously trying to make a change is almost wholly ineffective, because the weak conscious mind will always be overpowered by the ultra-powerful subconscious. If it was effective, everyone in the world would be an amazing, fulfilled, self-actualized person through conscious effort, which is not the case. Instead you find more often broken shells of human beings. What one has to do is aim for effecting unconscious changes while you are in a more calm state.

The fact that mental health in USA vs Europe uses a different economic model does not change the efficacy of the respective psychological interventions. Infact our universities are the source of most these ineffective techniques. Despite what European pseudo-socialists say, your society is still paying the cost for mental health from state taxes. As to: "Just 100 years ago, treatment to people with mental problems was to lock them in cells and basically expose them to torture." Social control in all areas has evolved in the same vein. A century ago people would be publicly executed with much public fanfare, the police everywhere beat the snot out of the proletariat, teachers used to make corporal punishment on unruly students, parents used to administer regular beatings, etc. The elite does not need such drastic measures, because they have found more effective, non-violent means in marketing, school, mental health, and by creating an economic situation where you have to sell your labor to survive, etc. It is much easier to shape the public's mind and not need force, rather than to allow them more mental latitudes and need to use the iron rod frequently as a consequence.

It is beyond laughable to state that if mental health was not beneficial to society it would not be sought out or paid for! You have alot to learn about how the world works. I cannot be your nanny on this, you have alot of searching to do, but probably if you wanted that search, you would have already started it. But alas you haven't...

 

[Equinox]

It's laughable to imagine that a government wouldn't want to spend money on something that didn't help people? Alrighty then. If you say so, sir.

Thank goodness I could receive this amazing eye opener from such an expert on the human mind. I assume you've studied this field for a couple of decades, at least, since you know how everything works. You're a professor in psychology, naturally - perhaps with expertise on the subconscious? You should totally start writing books and get on TV or whatever, and tell the rest of the world of your astounding, absolute truth. Wow! I'm pretty sure all those people who's received a lot of help through therapy will be particularly interested when you tell them "Therapy hasn't helped you; you just think that it has, but you're wrong. Your experience is meaningless, because I know The Truth™".

 

[18yr old female]

Lol what do u mean? All that talk was mindbogglin 4 me haha break it down.
I had therapy, honeysuckle loads, it never worked either. I thought it was funny that all these doctors thought I was nuts but im not I just didnt like them so I didnt take it seriously they all chat honeysuckle.

 

[IgnoredOne]

I find your posturing of intelligence fascinating, Thras; for someone of your clearly superior and vast intellect, perhaps you should be acting on it in a measure that will bring out the great evils of the world. Living from your mother's place on a fedex salary is no way to bring about change for the better in the world, and I mean this with absolute honesty. If you think that you have such intellect and awareness that we lack, then employ it and use it to your advantage. Actions reveal truth, not words, something I'm sure you agree with as well.

Also, 18 yr old: I had a hammer and there was a nail I needed to drive into the wall. However, I thought the hammer was useless and I didn't like it, so I just stared at it. Appropriately enough, the nail did not go into the wall either. Hammers are clearly useless and fake tools.

 

[LoneHistoric]

I would love to try therapy, but I've never be able to afford it due to loans and everything else (which will be an issue for a long time...)...And for all those who took it for granted or didn't take it seriously: who was paying the psychiatrist/psychologist? Thanks for wasting resources when others are working their butts off with terrible mental instability for crap money and cannot afford the help they need. Appreciate it.

 

[oopsiedoop]

Well, you know that's another thing. Law firms will do things pro bono. But no shrink even devotes one hour to that.

 

[18yr old female]

to the lonehistoric;
lol are you a therpist then? cause u sound like you are full of it aswel.
I know you are posh n all that but your talkin like your actin out star wars or somethin. Wierdos

 

[IgnoredOne]

Star Wars is a posh setting.

Would you like some more tea, Darth Sideous? That scurrious Jedi has discombobulated us greatly, most greatly!

 

[LoneHistoric]

to the lonehistoric;
lol are you a therpist then? cause u sound like you are full of it aswel.
I know you are posh n all that but your talkin like your actin out star wars or somethin. Wierdos

If I offended you, too bad. But you are right, I am a weirdo. Just a little ticked off that so many people take a lent ear for granted, no matter the cost. And if by posh you mean I am wealthy, then you're wrong there. I don't know what star wars has to do with anything.... I am more of a star trek guy myself anyway. Engage.

 

[Equinox]

She's just another troll.

Star Wars is awesome.

/ignore

 

[SophiaGrace]

Star Wars is a posh setting.

Would you like some more tea, Darth Sideous? That scurrious Jedi has discombobulated us greatly, most greatly!

LOL <3

 

[Skorian]

Maybe therapy is helpful for some..

...but all I've ever seen from it is years of sessions with people never getting any better. Perhaps I've only witnessed very ignorant psychologists at work or something.

But I've never actually seen someone "get better" or figure their life out through therapy.

*shrug*

Ya, that is what I have seen as well. Some people claim it helps them and changed them, but from what I have seen people are the same. The only thing that is different is they believe they have been helped. I think magical imaginary fixes are sort of ..... Screwy.

If these fixes were cheap, fine, but they rope people out of alot of money per hour. It is pretty worthless to have an imaginary friend that dumps you the second you stop paying. It would be cheaper to walk up to a stranger and offer to pay them x dollars an hour to listen.

I personally think a vast number of people who go into mental health have some major loose screws. They can be very good at playing head games and pointing the finger at everyone, but themselves.

To have someone barge into your life without having any stakes in your life. Granted you invite them in, but they are still total outsiders. For there to be no consequences to them for what they say, but then you pay the price for listening to them if they are wrong. You could say some of them live through their customers, while not uncommonly deep down many seem to have a resentment for the people that listen to them. I don't think all are bad people, but many are weirdo's. What good is being told what I want to hear? It seems like that is a great part of what many do. Or they say things that are so obvious that it is absurd. Some are really really nice. But they often have no real perspective on peoples lives since they have no real part of situations. Instead they sit on their ass in a small room and meddle in the world. It is like they are living with a bag over their head.

Some people though need someone to think for them...... So they replace their problem relationships with a therapist.... Only the therapist isn't really there for them at all and doesn't really care unless paid. It is weird.

 

[LoneHistoric]

Maybe therapy is helpful for some..

...but all I've ever seen from it is years of sessions with people never getting any better. Perhaps I've only witnessed very ignorant psychologists at work or something.

But I've never actually seen someone "get better" or figure their life out through therapy.

*shrug*

Ya, that is what I have seen as well. Some people claim it helps them and changed them, but from what I have seen people are the same. The only thing that is different is they believe they have been helped. I think magical imaginary fixes are sort of ..... Screwy.

If these fixes were cheap, fine, but they rope people out of alot of money per hour. It is pretty worthless to have an imaginary friend that dumps you the second you stop paying. It would be cheaper to walk up to a stranger and offer to pay them x dollars an hour to listen.

I personally think a vast number of people who go into mental health have some major loose screws. They can be very good at playing head games and pointing the finger at everyone, but themselves.

To have someone barge into your life without having any stakes in your life. Granted you invite them in, but they are still total outsiders. For there to be no consequences to them for what they say, but then you pay the price for listening to them if they are wrong. You could say some of them live through their customers, while not uncommonly deep down many seem to have a resentment for the people that listen to them. I don't think all are bad people, but many are weirdo's. What good is being told what I want to hear? It seems like that is a great part of what many do. Or they say things that are so obvious that it is absurd. Some are really really nice. But they often have no real perspective on peoples lives since they have no real part of situations. Instead they sit on their ass in a small room and meddle in the world. It is like they are living with a bag over their head.

Some people though need someone to think for them...... So they replace their problem relationships with a therapist.... Only the therapist isn't really there for them at all and doesn't really care unless paid. It is weird.

It is clear that do not have enough experience with therapists/psychiatrist/psychologists. If I were seriously to find the time and money to see one, I would shop around, so to speak, as I did to find my regular physician. But as I read some of these post, which are full of passion and experience, I guess I feel almost relieved that I never sought regular help from such a professional.

I understand that the knowledge and research in the field is a small step above pseudo-science, but I felt that regular therapy sessions would be more like a give and take - each invested in trying to figure out how to cope, repair, manage, and improve mentality. Even if it cost quite a bit of money, I would hypothetically hope to find an individual in the field with not only academic knowledge but also experience with people and a variety of mental illnesses. I can do only so much reading and experiencing myself, and would love to have opinions from people who live with and through these ailments (why I am here and other online forums), and also people who are truly passionate about helping people with these kinds of problems. But trust and pure passion is hard to find anywhere.

I respect those who have tried it, wanted to be helped but were not. And I sincerely feel for those who came out of it worse than when they started. I would never take any drugs prescribed by a psychiatrist, but I would like to talk to someone. I appreciate everyone's opinions and seriously take them under consideration in my own search for inner peace. Thanks.

 

[Skorian]

It just seems that most people are looking for a friend, romance, magic answers. If I wanted to sit here long enough I could probably think of a few more. Therapists provide none of this. Reality is a strange thing. Anything you declare as true can be true for you if you believe it to be so. There is more to reality then that, but not much. And that pretty much sums up the human mind. It can be almost whatever you want it to be. You just have to decide what that is. It helps if what you decide isn't in conflict with everyone else and not in conflict with the physical world. A person can choose to believe they are a gerbil if they really want to.

What I see most though is people do not want to accept their own choices. They want someone else to be responsible for them. It is all about choice.