Is Rap Real Music?

[Among the Sleep]

^ranting about friends backstabbing them, the cops, girls cheating/lying, etc. Some of them even go as far as to express their hatred/jealousy for other rappers..(Ja'rule vs 50 cent for example..)

Hate speech though? Id call it expression. The beefing stuff can get pretty hateful, thats not the way it started out being, but some of these conflicts have turned violent in real life. But I dont think the rest of that is really hate speech, if youre ranting about people back stabbing you, crooked police officers etc. those things are all based on real life situations and clearly sparked someones emotions enough to make them want to write about them. If it sounds angry, its probably supposed to, so I think its incredibly reductive to call that type of stuff hate speech.

 

[SophiaGrace]

uh this thread is turning me onto hip hop @_@

What the frick.

[youtube]Dt5hcFgZ6Rg[/youtube]

 

[roguewave]

^ranting about friends backstabbing them, the cops, girls cheating/lying, etc. Some of them even go as far as to express their hatred/jealousy for other rappers..(Ja'rule vs 50 cent for example..)

Hate speech though? Id call it expression. The beefing stuff can get pretty hateful, thats not the way it started out being, but some of these conflicts have turned violent in real life. But I dont think the rest of that is really hate speech, if youre ranting about people back stabbing you, crooked police officers etc. those things are all based on real life situations and clearly sparked someones emotions enough to make them want to write about them. If it sounds angry, its probably supposed to, so I think its incredibly reductive to call that type of stuff hate speech.

Once the ranting about people starts to involve slurs and name calling as it so often does, then it is hate speech.

 

[jonboy4u]

Is rap real music?,not to me!,music dosent preach hatred to homosexuals or glorifiy gun toting gangsters or degrade women and communities,just look what came before rap for a start,it's just the same as a tagger proclaiming that they are artists when they are vandals and spraying paint over the communities that they live in,they are not artists if it's art do it on canvas and put it in a gallery don't force it on communities that have no choice.Van gough is an artist turner or constable are artists that in my opinion is art,and i find it funny that a rapper would call himself/herself a poet that's an insult to any culture on the face of this earth that has ever spawned a poet.

 

[EveWasFramed]

Is rap real music?,not to me!,music dosent preach hatred to homosexuals or glorifiy gun toting gangsters or degrade women and communities,just look what came before rap for a start,it's just the same as a tagger proclaiming that they are artists when they are vandals and spraying paint over the communities that they live in,they are not artists if it's art do it on canvas and put it in a gallery don't force it on communities that have no choice.Van gough is an artist turner or constable are artists that in my opinion is art,and i find it funny that a rapper would call himself/herself a poet that's an insult to any culture on the face of this earth that has ever spawned a poet.

Artists have used music to deliver personal messages FOREVER. Just because we might not agree with the message doesn't mean it's not music.

 

[jonboy4u]

Is rap real music?,not to me!,music dosent preach hatred to homosexuals or glorifiy gun toting gangsters or degrade women and communities,just look what came before rap for a start,it's just the same as a tagger proclaiming that they are artists when they are vandals and spraying paint over the communities that they live in,they are not artists if it's art do it on canvas and put it in a gallery don't force it on communities that have no choice.Van gough is an artist turner or constable are artists that in my opinion is art,and i find it funny that a rapper would call himself/herself a poet that's an insult to any culture on the face of this earth that has ever spawned a poet.

Artists have used music to deliver personal messages FOREVER. Just because we might not agree with the message doesn't mean it's not music.

It's not music to me,it's degrading to alot of people.

 

[EveWasFramed]

Is rap real music?,not to me!,music dosent preach hatred to homosexuals or glorifiy gun toting gangsters or degrade women and communities,just look what came before rap for a start,it's just the same as a tagger proclaiming that they are artists when they are vandals and spraying paint over the communities that they live in,they are not artists if it's art do it on canvas and put it in a gallery don't force it on communities that have no choice.Van gough is an artist turner or constable are artists that in my opinion is art,and i find it funny that a rapper would call himself/herself a poet that's an insult to any culture on the face of this earth that has ever spawned a poet.

Artists have used music to deliver personal messages FOREVER. Just because we might not agree with the message doesn't mean it's not music.

It's not music to me,it's degrading to alot of people.

lol, just because it degrades people doesn't mean it isn't music.
Have you LISTENED to some of the lyrics from today's rock music??
Some is no worse than some of the more offensive rap music.

 

[9006]

Personally I don't consider it "music", Music, to me, is someone singing with a beautiful voice or playing an instrument creating an amazing sound. Having said that I do think that there's an art to rap if it's done properly, however I think most rappers today rap about complete rubbish, it's mostly a way to vent and raise their "gangster" style status.

But Music is however you define it, if you like that sort of thing then it's gonna be music to you, ultimately it's all just opinions.

 

[Rosebolt]

[rant]

Harsh as i'm going to sound, this thread is pretty pathetic. There are hundreds of thousands immature people online who judge rap as crap, i didn't expect that on a mostly non-judgemental site such as this, then again, who am i to judge.

Here's my take on music. Music is raw emotion, music is a passion, music comes straigth from your soul. Everyone is different, you are different from me, etc. Therefore, music is different as well. We as humans feel the need to catagorise everything, so we get genres, which is also something i think is kind of unnecessary, but that's beside the point. Everyone is different, and therefore their way of expressing themselves is different.

Just because you don't like the way person A is expressing themselves, doesn't mean it's suddenly no music anymore, that is one the biggest loads of bullshit i've ever heard. You have every right to not like it, but don't reflect your opinion in such a way as to disregard someone's emotions like that, that's just inhumane.

[/rant]

Of course, this is just my opinion as well, and i have no right to impose that on anyone, it's just that things like this make me sick.

 

[9006]

^ oh dear

 

[ladyforsaken]

Let's give each other a big group hug and chill out.

I guess music is individual really. It's like happiness. Subjective. What's happiness to one may be full of honeysuckle to the other. It's all up to one how they perceive certain things.

I personally think rap is just another form or genre in the musical industry. As much as I hate labeling stuff, that's the reality of it in human nature. It's like how poetry itself has many different forms. Rhymes, non-rhyming etc etc.

But if one doesn't agree that rap is music, then rap isn't music to that person. It's just another one of those endless debates that will just go on forever lol because there really is no right or wrong answer as I think it's also subjective which makes it hard to really determine and say it IS music. Each to his own.

Let's have a peaceful party of some relaxing classical music now.

 

[EveWasFramed]

Definition of MUSIC
1a : the science or art of ordering tones or sounds in succession, in combination, and in temporal relationships to produce a composition having unity and continuity
b : vocal, instrumental, or mechanical sounds having rhythm, melody, or harmony

 

[dugthecat]

No such thing as bad music, just bad opinion =P

 

[bodafuko]

I've been listening to rap and rapping myself since I was about 4 years old. Started with Grandmaster Flash, Run DMC, UTFO, and all the other old school honeysuckle. YES, rap music is absolutely music. And some of it is amazing and out of this world in terms of talent.

That being said, a lot of it - especially the pop garbage bullshit played on the radio and pushed by the media - sucks totally and is sending racist, misogynistic, hateful agendas.

 

[kamya]

I made this playlist a few weeks ago. There's a bit of hip hop. I'm still tweaking things and I'll probably replacing the Shanghai Restoration Project stuff with other things eventually. I'm not liking how they fit with the rest of the playlist. I really like listening to this to calm down and for background music while I do other things.

The playlist

Maybe it can change some of your minds.

The rest of my profile is just videos from games I used to play.

 

[Among the Sleep]

What's wrong with hate speech anyway?

---

I mean, hip hop is music. That point isn't even arguable. I'm not gonna say country music isn't music just cause I hate it. If you don't like it, don't relate to it, etc., obviously that's completely subjective, but to say something isn't "real" music because it doesn't fit the criteria that you personally have decided music should sound like is self-centered and snobby.

 

[bodafuko]

I suppose the answer to your question depends on what your subjective version of "wrong" is. On its face, devoid of any peculiar or bizarre connotations, there is a lot wrong with hate speech.

 

[noki]

I thought I would make my first post on this forum a long one... hopefully more people will give rap a chance.

For all of you talking about the vulgarity/profanity in rap, consider songs like these:

Lucille Bogan - Shave Em' Dry (1935)
[video=youtube]

Harry Roy - My Girl's Pussy (1931)
[video=youtube]

Sexually explicit and otherwise vulgar lyrics have been around since before we were born. It isn't something unique to rap, and it isn't something that modern rap introduced.

As for the matter of talent and skill, while it is true that rap doesn't necessarily require a rapper to be able to sing well, it does require being able to stay on beat; formulating verses to match is easier said than done and this is part of what creates the rapper's 'flow', along with rhyming - the speech is more pleasing to listen to because it flows along so well with the music. Here's a great example of a good flow:

Jedi Mind Tricks - Uncommon Valor (feat. RA The Rugged Man)
[video=youtube]
The whole song is worth a listen but I'm specifically interested in showing off RA's verse (so listen until or skip to 1:33) which not only demonstrates an amazing flow, but is also a great example of mature storytelling in rap.

That isn't to say that rappers can't rap AND sing - there are quite a few who do. Pharrell is a good example of this - he raps, he plays the piano, drums, guitar, he soundtracks movies, and he sings:

Clipse - Young Boy (feat. Pharrell)
[video=youtube]
You may have heard this song in a series of BFGoodrich commercials starring Shaun White that aired on TV a year or two ago, and from hearing part of this chorus, you would never know that it comes from a rap song about slinging cocaine.

Now, onto "hate speech". Anger-fueled speech has its place in music. People get angry in real life, and yet they shouldn't express it through music? Anger and hate is a part of life and unless you are a saint, everybody experiences it. Rap encompasses every emotion out there and it doesn't censor itself. I would rather have somebody say some unkind words than have them do an unkind action, if you catch my drift. I'll use this as an example:

Eminem - Hail Mary
[video=youtube]
This is a response to a song in which Ja Rule said "Em ya claim ya mother's a crackhead and Kim is a known slut, so what's Hailie gon' be when she grows up?". Here's Ja Rule, attacking Eminem's young daughter, telling him that she is going to grow up to be a slut. Of course as a parent Eminem got mad, and rightfully so. He responded by throwing out a series of clever diss tracks in which he hates on Ja Rule; the song above is one of them.

Finally, I'll address the cliche "rappers rap about money, cars and hoes" statement. It couldn't be farther from the truth - true, many of the rappers you hear on the radio might rap about that subject matter, but most of the rappers you will never hear on the radio do not. I find that rap songs, particularly of the non-mainstream variety, tend to fit in a much larger amount of substance than most other songs, though repeat listens and analyzing lyrics may be required. The best website to check out lyrics and their meanings is Rap Genius. Like in life, subjects range from the silly to the serious; below are modern examples.

Death:
Kno - If You Cry (feat. Natti) [from album Kno - Death Is Silent]
[video=youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ko0Nl4-ruUo[/video]
http://www.songmeanings.net/songs/view/3530822107858847364/
Here we have a song discussing how society views men and death. If you are a real man, you shouldn't cry. And just as luck would have it, today on this very forum a topic was created about this very perception.

The Ronald Reagan Era:
Killer Mike - Reagan [from album Killer Mike - R.A.P. Music]
[video=youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lIqNjC1RKU[/video]
http://rapgenius.com/Killer-mike-reagan-lyrics
Killer Mike uses this track to comment on certain actions and their effects during Reagan's presidency.

Life In Compton:
Kendrick Lamar - Sing About Me, I'm Dying Of Thirst [from album Kendrick Lamar - g.o.o.d. kid, m.A.A.d city]
[video=youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gbpa0ELtYk[/video]
http://rapgenius.com/Kendrick-lamar-sing-about-me-im-dying-of-thirst-lyrics
This song came out in 2012. It is over twelve minutes long. It is also a supreme example of storytelling and the title is reflective of the nature of storytelling; the story in this song will exist forever, even after Kendrick is gone from this planet. The tale is graphic, but it is only graphic because it is real.

Hardship:
Ghostface Killah - Spraypaint & Inkpens (feat. Mike Shinoda & Lupe Fiasco) [from album Fort Minor - We Major]
[video=youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwJuY8D_Q5M[/video]
http://rapgenius.com/Fort-minor-spraypaint-and-inkpen-lyrics
All three artists on this track tell of different stories of hardship, and ultimately, defeat. Ghostface raps about a drug dealer who follows in his father's footsteps and meets his demise, Mike raps about a thief who lost his wife and takes his own life, and Lupe raps about a Gundam pilot fighting a losing battle who blows up his Gundam to hurt as much of the enemy as possible.

Porn / Masturbation:
MF DOOM - Kookies [from album MF DOOM - MM.. FOOD]
[video=youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RYCLfGE-_Q[/video]
http://rapgenius.com/Mf-doom-kookies-lyrics
This is a silly song with real rapping technique. MF DOOM spends the entire song dropping metaphors about cookies and snacks to talk about porn and masturbation.

Anxiety:
Dark Time Sunshine - ANX (feat. Mendee Ichikawa) [from album Dark Time Sunshine - ANX]
[video=youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vt6O86JjjPY[/video]
Song about how the rapper experiences panic attacks and the battles he has with his anxiety.

I could go on and on and on but I don't want to make this post any longer.

Notice how none of the rap songs that I provided in this entire post are from a time period earlier than the early 2000s. The uninformed like to say that the rap of the 80s and 90s was real and substantial and that modern rap only glorifies violence and money and drugs and hoes. The fact is that this subject matter today makes up a very small portion of rap - it is simply what the media pushes. Think of it as a "vocal minority". You might have to spend some time looking through what you hear on the radio, but you will be able to find raps about things that conventional song genres do not even touch, and you will find some of the most emotional, honest, real songs out there.

I hope that I'm able to turn some people onto rap and give it a second chance, and if anybody would like more recommendations, feel free to message me.

 

[Lilianna]

Welcome!

 

[ladyforsaken]

Wow, noki. Thanks? That was really cool. I didn't listen to everything though.

Having said that, I do admit I'm a big fan of Eminem.

Edit: Oh and yes, welcome to the forum, noki!