It's impossible

[Xpendable]

If women pickup the mentality, then why I know so many negative guys with girlfriends?

 

[VanillaCreme]

If women pickup the mentality, then why I know so many negative guys with girlfriends?

Because it's not set in stone for everybody. People act differently and react differently.

 

[Xpendable]

Because it's not set in stone for everybody. People act differently and react differently.

Well, then is perfectly reasonable to dismiss that advice.

 

[lonelypanda]

If women pickup the mentality, then why I know so many negative guys with girlfriends?

Maybe they're negative with you, but not their gf. I dated a really negative guy once. I mean this guy was king of complaining and threw himself daily pity parties. He wasn't like that when we met though, he wore a good mask and was fun but the true colors came out eventually.... and now we're not together anymore.

The older I get the more I realize everyone has problems, everyone has sad stories. Everyones been through honeysuckle or is going through honeysuckle, and maybe what my mom told me when I was a kid a dozen times when I wouldn't eat my food has some truth to it. There is starving kids in Africa, I have food in my tummy and a roof over my head. The biggest battles we have in life are the ones in our heads, sometimes it takes work to shut those negative thoughts down, but I try and remind myself happy is healthy. Being happy attracts people to you, and not just friends but potential bf/gfs.

 

[TheRealCallie]

If women pickup the mentality, then why I know so many negative guys with girlfriends?

There are different types of negativity. Some aren't as bad as others, and some women just don't care.
Some people are just in relationships to be in a relationship, because they are afraid of being alone or whatever reason they have and some are just in relationships for what the other person gives them.

Because it's not set in stone for everybody. People act differently and react differently.

Well, then is perfectly reasonable to dismiss that advice.

Yes, because it's perfectly reasonable to assume everyone is exactly the same? lol

 

[Xpendable]

Maybe they're negative with you, but not their gf.

I wouldn't have used the example if that were the case. They're in front of them and in front of other girls. I cannot fathom what kind of mental gymnastic they do to find them attractive (assuming negativity is universally rejected, as it seems it isn't)

I dated a really negative guy once. I mean this guy was king of complaining and threw himself daily pity parties. He wasn't like that when we met though, he wore a good mask and was fun but the true colors came out eventually.... and now we're not together anymore.

Kinda contradictory. You say he wasn't like that but then that he used a mask. Meaning he was like that all the time and maybe feel comfortable later. Are you sure you weren't assigning "negativity" unequivocally to what he was expressing?

Being happy attracts people to you, and not just friends but potential bf/gfs.

I wish you knowed me outside this forum. I can be a blast, I'm not trying to presume. I make people laugh, a lot. The problem is probably that a girl may have some attraction to me, but they just stay there and do nothing. For me is rare to hear about a girl asking a guy out. Like directly (and no, I don't think that's slutty) if done with the right words. So the clarividence thing has a lot of true to it. Is like they expect to pick all this subtleties instead of just being direct. Many guys would be happy if more women made the first move.

---

Because it's not set in stone for everybody. People act differently and react differently.

Well, then is perfectly reasonable to dismiss that advice.

Yes, because it's perfectly reasonable to assume everyone is exactly the same? lol

If there's someone assuming everyone is exactly the same, it's the person who immediately associates negativity with unattractiveness. It really baffles me how you cannot get the point sometimes.

Here it is: If certain social advice cannot be applied to everyone, then is perfectly reasonable to think is not useful enough to be hold as true.

 

[SofiasMami]

I don't really see much difference in 'meeting a woman' and 'meeting a woman as friends'. I've noticed that for adults meeting them as friends first and mutually developing and expressing the romantic-interest later is often how most people met their long-term partners. The whole 'dating' thing seems to me to be nothing more than a....fantasy. Sure some of those sort of relationships work out, some even last, but from my experience it seems that would be a lot less common.

I agree with this. The idea of "dating" makes me cringe. But meeting people during everyday life who happen to be men - that seems to be much easier and more realistic. Less pressure too. When I was in the dating world, I put myself under pressure all the time wondering whether this guy was "the one" or how long we would last or when I would meet his friends or family or why he didn't respond to that text I sent this morning...no thanks, I'm done with that.

Also, I'm not sure if this is actually true but it seems like the pool of potential partners is maybe lower for people my age (40+). A lot of men my age are married or have girlfriends or they're just getting out of long-time relationships and not really relationship material.

TB, maybe some of the ladies you've had friendly conversations with in your job or elsewhere are the type you could develop something further? Light conversation with little pressure seems like a good way to start something.

-Teresa

 

[VanillaCreme]

Because it's not set in stone for everybody. People act differently and react differently.

Well, then is perfectly reasonable to dismiss that advice.

What advice? If you're introducing yourself into this thread just to argue with everything that's being said, you're not going to get very far. If you have some decent input to give, great. If not, then keep the arguing to yourself please.

 

[TheRealCallie]

If there's someone assuming everyone is exactly the same, it's the person who immediately associates negativity with unattractiveness. It really baffles me how you cannot get the point sometimes.

Here it is: If certain social advice cannot be applied to everyone, then is perfectly reasonable to think is not useful enough to be hold as true.

Lol, I don't get the point sometimes? M'kay, yeah sure.

We've already had this discussion and I am not about to relive the experience.

As for advice, regardless of what it is or what it's for or even who it's from....take what you like and leave the rest. If you see something you think might be helpful, by all means, try it out. If not, leave it sit where it is and ignore it. Almost nothing can be applied to everyone because...wait for it....everyone is different.

 

[there is no hope]

oh this forum.

sigh.

 

[Xpendable]

What advice? If you're introducing yourself into this thread just to argue with everything that's being said, you're not going to get very far. If you have some decent input to give, great. If not, then keep the arguing to yourself please.

I'm glad you have found an efficient way to shut down my posts by equating them with the necessity for conflict.

About that advice, it reads implicity that the core advice is "you shouldn't be negative". It may not be literal but that's the advice. Would you agree that "don't be negative" can be used as and advice? If so, and going on, what can be considered decent input it's of course holded as subjective. Let's remember that input should not be confused with only supporting and idea, but also challenging it. What you could see as simple arguing it can be of value for others. If you want to presume that those who appreciate the challenging of an idea are "wrong", I would suggest you ask yourself why it irks you so much the mere fact of challenging it in the first place.

I surely can identify whit OP a lot more. Because I'm a male and I also struggle with the incessant subjectivity of what we call attraction. My questions are merely for digging more thoughtful answers and find better solutions to my issues. If you feel I don't align myself with the search for "input", you should ask why would I want to sabotage the advice that is given just for the sake of it? Why would I want to "just argue" against such valuable information, if it not being because I detect important flaws in the reasoning of those advices? Flaws which came transparently through simple critical thinking?

---

As for advice, regardless of what it is or what it's for or even who it's from....take what you like and leave the rest. If you see something you think might be helpful, by all means, try it out. If not, leave it sit where it is and ignore it. Almost nothing can be applied to everyone because...wait for it....everyone is different.

If you see something you think might be helpful, by all means, try it out. If not, leave it, sit where it is and ignore it.

Would it be such a bad idea that if I found something to be not helpful, that I can share why is not helpful (to me)? So others can have another point of view to draw their conclusions with a richer contrast?

 

[lonelypanda]

I wouldn't have used the example if that were the case. They're in front of them and in front of other girls. I cannot fathom what kind of mental gymnastic they do to find them attractive (assuming negativity is universally rejected, as it seems it isn't)

I'm just giving you 1 example why someone might date a negative person. Heck maybe the girl is really negative too and they both like it that way. There's always going to be that exception, and in this case a negative guy has a gf. It's gonna happen, as a general rule rough, most people are put off by negativity which is why most people offer the advice to curb negative
attitudes.

Kinda contradictory. You say he wasn't like that but then that he used a mask. Meaning he was like that all the time and maybe feel comfortable later. Are you sure you weren't assigning "negativity" unequivocally to what he was expressing?

Please expain how that is contradictory? I'm not sure you understand what the word means. You quoted me but cut off part of the sentence which finished with "when I met him". It's not uncommon for people to act a certain way or to lie to get someone to like them. I still known him today, 10 yrs later, and he's still the same negative person. Its just who he is, some people don't ever change.

I wish you knowed me outside this forum. I can be a blast, I'm not trying to presume. I make people laugh, a lot. The problem is probably that a girl may have some attraction to me, but they just stay there and do nothing. For me is rare to hear about a girl asking a guy out. Like directly (and no, I don't think that's slutty) if done with the right words. So the clarividence thing has a lot of true to it. Is like they expect to pick all this subtleties instead of just being direct. Many guys would be happy if more women made the first move.

I can't speak for all women, but for me I never make the first move because I want the guy to. I don't even think I fully understand it myself. I guess it just shows confidence and I find that really attractive. I like being chased and desired.

 

[Xpendable]

Kinda contradictory. You say he wasn't like that but then that he used a mask. Meaning he was like that all the time and maybe feel comfortable later. Are you sure you weren't assigning "negativity" unequivocally to what he was expressing?

Please expain how that is contradictory? I'm not sure you understand what the word means. You quoted me but cut off part of the sentence which finished with "when I met him". It's not uncommon for people to act a certain way or to lie to get someone to like them. I still known him today, 10 yrs later, and he's still the same negative person. Its just who he is, some people don't ever change.

The contradiction lies in that "when you met him" and the "mask" he used are incompatible in context. Or he was always negative and just hide it, or he changed through the time he spent with you. It can't be both.

 

[SofiasMami]

What advice? If you're introducing yourself into this thread just to argue with everything that's being said, you're not going to get very far. If you have some decent input to give, great. If not, then keep the arguing to yourself please.

I'm glad you have found an efficient way to shut down my posts by equating them with the necessity for conflict.

About that advice, it reads implicity that the core advice is "you shouldn't be negative". It may not be literal but that's the advice. Would you agree that "don't be negative" can be used as and advice? If so, and going on, what can be considered decent input it's of course holded as subjective. Let's remember that input should not be confused with only supporting and idea, but also challenging it. What you could see as simple arguing it can be of value for others. If you want to presume that those who appreciate the challenging of an idea are "wrong", I would suggest you ask yourself why it irks you so much the mere fact of challenging it in the first place.

I surely can identify whit OP a lot more. Because I'm a male and I also struggle with the incessant subjectivity of what we call attraction. My questions are merely for digging more thoughtful answers and find better solutions to my issues. If you feel I don't align myself with the search for "input", you should ask why would I want to sabotage the advice that is given just for the sake of it? Why would I want to "just argue" against such valuable information, if it not being because I detect important flaws in the reasoning of those advices? Flaws which came transparently through simple critical thinking?

---

As for advice, regardless of what it is or what it's for or even who it's from....take what you like and leave the rest. If you see something you think might be helpful, by all means, try it out. If not, leave it sit where it is and ignore it. Almost nothing can be applied to everyone because...wait for it....everyone is different.

If you see something you think might be helpful, by all means, try it out. If not, leave it, sit where it is and ignore it.

Would it be such a bad idea that if I found something to be not helpful, that I can share why is not helpful (to me)? So others can have another point of view to draw their conclusions with a richer contrast?

---

A dialogue or exchange of ideas is fine as far as I'm concerned, as long as you're not being nasty or rudely personal about it. Hearing different perspectives from my own is useful. I like to hear other points of view but maybe that's just because I enjoy philosophy and intellectual debates.
But I'm afraid TB's original post took a sharp turn somewhere in this thread, sorry, TB.

-Teresa

 

[AmytheTemperamental]

I don't know how you are about approaching potential friends, TB.. I personally find friendships easier to attempt because I expect them to fail in the beginning, and don't get too much hope up. I find that I allow myself to be myself when I don't have those hopes, because I am not really trying to win someone over. I don't over complicate my thoughts. I just do my thing.

 

[lonelypanda]

Kinda contradictory. You say he wasn't like that but then that he used a mask. Meaning he was like that all the time and maybe feel comfortable later. Are you sure you weren't assigning "negativity" unequivocally to what he was expressing?

Please expain how that is contradictory? I'm not sure you understand what the word means. You quoted me but cut off part of the sentence which finished with "when I met him". It's not uncommon for people to act a certain way or to lie to get someone to like them. I still known him today, 10 yrs later, and he's still the same negative person. Its just who he is, some people don't ever change.

The contradiction lies in that "when you met him" and the "mask" he used are incompatible in context. Or he was always negative and just hide it, or he changed through the time he spent with you. It can't be both.

It's not though, he wore a mask meaning he was always a negative person but he pretended to be something he wasnt, and his true personality came out afterward. The mask is his "non negative" persona he was trying to project. That's not a contradiction at all, I say when I met him because at that point in time I did not see that, or obviously I wouldn't have dated him.

 

[VanillaCreme]

It's not though, he wore a mask meaning he was always a negative person but he pretended to be something he wasnt, and his true personality came out afterward. The mask is his "non negative" persona he was trying to project. That's not a contradiction at all, I say when I met him because at that point in time I did not see that, or obviously I wouldn't have dated him.

My guy likes misery. He grew up with a father that always tried to make everyone else feel bad for him, and always tried to get what he wanted by not doing any legit work himself. So, my guy only knows that. I've told him though, that I'm not putting up with the kind of bullshit his father used to pull. I'm just not dealing with it. I did kind of know that his outlook on life wasn't exactly rainbows and lollipops. But I'm not putting up with the nasty attitude that he probably will have more and more because of the way his father was. I don't see the need to be negative and miserable all the time, and I don't get why some people are.

So, I don't blame you for not wanting to deal with any of that. It's exhausting.

 

[Triple Bogey]

I'm not ignoring interest or playing hard to get or blind to a woman fluttering her eyes at me. Doesn't happen.

It's not always that obvious, though. So it could be happening and you're just not aware of it.

Maybe.
I always thought smiling, laughing at my jokes, blushing and jealousy were the things to look for. But over the years I have found out those things mean nothing.

---

Perhaps it's your defeatest mentality, you try but women are picking up on that negativity. It doesn't happen with female friends because you're being natural and relaxed. It's kind of like when someone smiles, but you can see in their eyes it's an empty smile. Alot of the non verbal cues we pick up on tell alot aswell. The same way crossed arms has a way of making someone look grumpy even if they're not, body language is important.

True for some people but not me.
People tell me I am a happy person who gets on with everybody.

---

I don't really see much difference in 'meeting a woman' and 'meeting a woman as friends'. I've noticed that for adults meeting them as friends first and mutually developing and expressing the romantic-interest later is often how most people met their long-term partners. The whole 'dating' thing seems to me to be nothing more than a....fantasy. Sure some of those sort of relationships work out, some even last, but from my experience it seems that would be a lot less common.

I agree with this. The idea of "dating" makes me cringe. But meeting people during everyday life who happen to be men - that seems to be much easier and more realistic. Less pressure too. When I was in the dating world, I put myself under pressure all the time wondering whether this guy was "the one" or how long we would last or when I would meet his friends or family or why he didn't respond to that text I sent this morning...no thanks, I'm done with that.

Also, I'm not sure if this is actually true but it seems like the pool of potential partners is maybe lower for people my age (40+). A lot of men my age are married or have girlfriends or they're just getting out of long-time relationships and not really relationship material.

TB, maybe some of the ladies you've had friendly conversations with in your job or elsewhere are the type you could develop something further? Light conversation with little pressure seems like a good way to start something.

-Teresa

The trouble is these friendly conversations never develop into anything else. I have a million acquaintances but no close friends. And if I do try and develop something it usually turns into a disappointment.

---

What advice? If you're introducing yourself into this thread just to argue with everything that's being said, you're not going to get very far. If you have some decent input to give, great. If not, then keep the arguing to yourself please.

I'm glad you have found an efficient way to shut down my posts by equating them with the necessity for conflict.

About that advice, it reads implicity that the core advice is "you shouldn't be negative". It may not be literal but that's the advice. Would you agree that "don't be negative" can be used as and advice? If so, and going on, what can be considered decent input it's of course holded as subjective. Let's remember that input should not be confused with only supporting and idea, but also challenging it. What you could see as simple arguing it can be of value for others. If you want to presume that those who appreciate the challenging of an idea are "wrong", I would suggest you ask yourself why it irks you so much the mere fact of challenging it in the first place.

I surely can identify whit OP a lot more. Because I'm a male and I also struggle with the incessant subjectivity of what we call attraction. My questions are merely for digging more thoughtful answers and find better solutions to my issues. If you feel I don't align myself with the search for "input", you should ask why would I want to sabotage the advice that is given just for the sake of it? Why would I want to "just argue" against such valuable information, if it not being because I detect important flaws in the reasoning of those advices? Flaws which came transparently through simple critical thinking?

---

As for advice, regardless of what it is or what it's for or even who it's from....take what you like and leave the rest. If you see something you think might be helpful, by all means, try it out. If not, leave it sit where it is and ignore it. Almost nothing can be applied to everyone because...wait for it....everyone is different.

If you see something you think might be helpful, by all means, try it out. If not, leave it, sit where it is and ignore it.

Would it be such a bad idea that if I found something to be not helpful, that I can share why is not helpful (to me)? So others can have another point of view to draw their conclusions with a richer contrast?

---

A dialogue or exchange of ideas is fine as far as I'm concerned, as long as you're not being nasty or rudely personal about it. Hearing different perspectives from my own is useful. I like to hear other points of view but maybe that's just because I enjoy philosophy and intellectual debates.
But I'm afraid TB's original post took a sharp turn somewhere in this thread, sorry, TB.

-Teresa

---

No need to apologise, at least I got some replies !
Some good advice and debate in this thread.

I think I am popular though. I went into work this morning and the staff and managers had had a collection for me saying thank you for running a lottery syndicate. They bought me a xmas jumper, hat and tee shirt. I thought it was really nice. I got loads of smiles and comments about my jumper from customers. I think I am likeable. I think people like me. Which makes it odd that a woman doesn't ever like me that little bit more.

 

[Despicable Me]

The trouble is these friendly conversations never develop into anything else. I have a million acquaintances but no close friends. And if I do try and develop something it usually turns into a disappointment.

I guess I'm just curious how you even know there is nothing developing? How do you know the conversations aren't developing into anything else? Is it them or is it you not developing something?
What I meant by the 'dating' thing being a fantasy is that asking someone on a "date", or getting a blind "date", is really just silly and uncomfortable most of the time. It's much easier to just ask someone who you've had a nice chat with, anyone really, to meet you for a nice cup of tea or coffee somewhere and just chat. Have more conversation with them. You don't need to have romantic interest towards them, and they can be other guys, too. That's how you get 'close friends'. That's how you meet women, too. And if you hit it off with someone, you keep asking them to 'hang out'.

The romantic interest stuff develops from those friendships. And you can only find out by attempting something. You've probably got to ask them, or at least show signs of affection like putting your hand on theirs at a movie or dinner. As you said yourself earlier, you simply assume it's never going to happen so are you never even asking them?
You do have to open up to people to build friendships, and to build romantic interest. If you're always closed off you can't build those things.

And if it ends in disappointment? Well, that's actually going to happen a lot! It's not anything to do with you, though. I'd say most people just aren't compatible even if there was some interest there. Sometimes it takes quite a lot of trying to finally find someone you're compatible with.
And despite what it seems that it is 'harder' to find a match as you get older, from what I've seen it actually seems to not be the case at all. In many cases the older you get the more mature you are about accepting someone for who they are, being open about things, not trying to pretend to be someone you're not, and all that. The 'harder' part seems to be just meeting new people who you haven't met before. A lot of people, as they get older, stop venturing out of their comfort zone and just plain don't meet anyone new. That's a huge problem if you want to find a match. You've got to keep meeting people. Lots of people.

What I'm trying to tell you is that you really should 'just be yourself'.
You will be disappointed many times, and there will be lots of awkwardness, but often that is really worth it to find the one who really wasn't a disappointment. It's just luck of the draw, really. There are lots of bad hands, but eventually you do draw aces.

I think what you really need is some more confidence in yourself.
You're a good person TB. That's all you ever need to be. Let the right woman see that, too, and you'll soon be sharing your entire life with her, no doubt.

 

[Triple Bogey]

The trouble is these friendly conversations never develop into anything else. I have a million acquaintances but no close friends. And if I do try and develop something it usually turns into a disappointment.

I guess I'm just curious how you even know there is nothing developing? How do you know the conversations aren't developing into anything else? Is it them or is it you not developing something?
What I meant by the 'dating' thing being a fantasy is that asking someone on a "date", or getting a blind "date", is really just silly and uncomfortable most of the time. It's much easier to just ask someone who you've had a nice chat with, anyone really, to meet you for a nice cup of tea or coffee somewhere and just chat. Have more conversation with them. You don't need to have romantic interest towards them, and they can be other guys, too. That's how you get 'close friends'. That's how you meet women, too. And if you hit it off with someone, you keep asking them to 'hang out'.

The romantic interest stuff develops from those friendships. And you can only find out by attempting something. You've probably got to ask them, or at least show signs of affection like putting your hand on theirs at a movie or dinner. As you said yourself earlier, you simply assume it's never going to happen so are you never even asking them?
You do have to open up to people to build friendships, and to build romantic interest. If you're always closed off you can't build those things.

And if it ends in disappointment? Well, that's actually going to happen a lot! It's not anything to do with you, though. I'd say most people just aren't compatible even if there was some interest there. Sometimes it takes quite a lot of trying to finally find someone you're compatible with.
And despite what it seems that it is 'harder' to find a match as you get older, from what I've seen it actually seems to not be the case at all. In many cases the older you get the more mature you are about accepting someone for who they are, being open about things, not trying to pretend to be someone you're not, and all that. The 'harder' part seems to be just meeting new people who you haven't met before. A lot of people, as they get older, stop venturing out of their comfort zone and just plain don't meet anyone new. That's a huge problem if you want to find a match. You've got to keep meeting people. Lots of people.

What I'm trying to tell you is that you really should 'just be yourself'.
You will be disappointed many times, and there will be lots of awkwardness, but often that is really worth it to find the one who really wasn't a disappointment. It's just luck of the draw, really. There are lots of bad hands, but eventually you do draw aces.

I think what you really need is some more confidence in yourself.
You're a good person TB. That's all you ever need to be. Let the right woman see that, too, and you'll soon be sharing your entire life with her, no doubt.

What I mean by 'nothing developing' is after a really long conversation with lots of laughter, the next time I see a particular woman, they are usually off with me, hardly talking. So I always think whatever progress I made one day with lots of chat etc wasn't really progress and its back to square one.

The moment I start 'looking forward' to seeing someone is the time I get disappointed because of their indifference towards me. It happens all the time. I try to talk and get short answers or they don't even say 'hello' or ignore me. I know people have 'bad days' but unless I see genuine interest (instead of polite interest) I presume a woman isn't interested.