Self Pity Vs. Self Discipline

[Senamian]

Actually some people do choose to be depressed (or depressing?) over letting themselves know everything can and will be alright. Understand, that, not every person is the same. I do know someone who... No matter what life would give him, no matter how people who CARED about him tried to keep him from falling flat on his knees... Or tried to tell him they would ALWAYS be there, and that they would ALWAYS care and be there to listen... He didn't care. It is as if all the tension and childhood issues, along with a "friend" of his completely corrupted his way of thinking. He pushed people who cared away... Because everyone to him, were evil. While his mindset became more than a fight.. It became his life.

But he did have that choice, to realize "This is NOT how it has to be!" But he chose otherwise.

I don't really think this post was fully on depression... Just more or less the mindset some people can have that they can change, which are linked to procrastination, motivation, and even anger, happiness or sadness.

 

[Alonewith2cats]

I agree. However my point is that by starting on immediate things like cleaning the house, doing things to take care of yourself like the gym that in doing so you start to build a foundation. You need to start by caring for yourself before you will have the energy to branch out and care for others. But those are good points.
And yes it could be a biochemical component as well so of course you should treat that as well. But you will not be served by staying stagnant.

---

I have never told someone to just snap out of it. I am offering up what has worked in my life. But some choose a perpetual state of victim hood. You cannot be pitiful and powerful. Do you want to take ownership of your life or let it pass you by?
Depression has a big fat narcissistic I in it. Remove the I and Press On.

---

I've never in my life met anyone who "chose" to be depressed. Also, are you suggesting that people who are depressed are guilty of narcissism?
Pitiful or powerful? Are you saying there's nothing in between?
Your post reminds me of "tough love" speech. Rarely does that work to motivate anyone.

---

May I suggest softening it a little while still allowing the positive motivation to take over? If you're depressed then you deserve to have your feelings validated. No one chooses to be depressed, it's just harder to climb out of that hole once you're in it. Therefore have compassion for yourself first and then use that compassion to motivate yourself to make positive changes in your life. People need to have their feelings validated so they want compassion first and then help and will be more motivated to make changes if they feel someone cares and understands their pain or what they're going through. If you don't have someone who can say something like "I'm so sorry you're feeling this way, it must be difficult.....why don't you try.....?" you can do it for yourself.

 

[Lady Gaga Snerd]

Again, i am in no way invalidating someone's feelings. I have suffered through clinical depression myself to the point where it almost ruined my life. And, there was no way i could "pull myself up by bootstraps" and nowhere do i suggest that. But, if you want to get better you have to find help. And, as i said, i would highly recommend counseling in conjuction with medication if needed and prescribed. And, by doing that, it will bring you to a place where you CAN then start to help yourself. That is the reality. NOBODY can help you if you will not help yourself.
And, i found that yes, i was depressed and had those feelings. But i then CHOOSE to use those feelings as an EXCUSE to stop fulfilling my obligations to myself and everyone else. I allowed this to be my excuse to INDULGE in lazy behavior and not be whom i used to be and do the things i know that i should do. And, my counselor pointed this out. He said, "Yes, you are depressed, AND? Now what?". He said that being depressed is an EXPLANATION of how you feel but it is not an EXCUSE . For me, that was a very eye opening moment. Yes, i was clincally depressed. But, i ALLOWED this to become my excuse to stop taking care of myself, my home, my life as i knew that i should. It allowed me to give myself an excuse to indulge in the narcissistic world of Self Pity.
So, if you think i should "soften" this. Sorry. I think you and others need to understand that Depression is a FIERCE ENEMY and the way to attack is not by more self pity, self indulgent and "you poor thing". That will get you nowhere. It only exacerbates the problem. When i finally had this epiphany , i was able to start behaving better and in the midst of this depression i knew that i had to get up out of bed and START. In order to become a better person, you have to ACT like a better person. And, step by step, you build on those small successes.
I was literally to the point where making a sandwich seemed like a Herculean task. But, i have kids and a family and i realized i have to push forward for them, so i did one hour, one day at a time. And, yes, i have days where i still feel as i used to feel. I always will. But i can nurse this aspect of my life, feed it, fuel it and pet it with self pity. OR, i can allow myself to be despondant for an hour , and then what? Get UP and go about your day.
So, that is my advice. My life is back on track. That is what worked for me. I am not going to pet depression and self pity and treat it like an old friend. No freaking way. Every day i get up and determine to DESTROY it. So, nope, no soft approaches from me. If that is what you want, you certainly can go find it all over the place. But you need to honestly ask yourself if more of THAT is going to do anything to help you move on to a better place.

 

[Alonewith2cats]

All I said was "Have some compassion for yourself and then turn that compassion into action." Nowhere in my post does it talk about "feeding self-pity." I'm just saying people can help themselves without having to be so hard on themselves.

Well if "tough love" works for you then do it. My approach is to have compassion for myself first and then put it into action and there is nothing wrong with it. I am not a "bad, narcissistic" person (and I didn't say you said that) for feeling the way that I do. I didn't ask to be depressed, therefore I think I should be kind to myself, not harsh, and then use this kindness and compassion to make things better rather than dwelling on my misery.

Well, it's Saturday, I'm unable to get together with friends, it's a lovely day and I don't want to be unhappy so today, I'm going bike riding, and then I'm going to come home and clean my balcony, no excuses, and water my starving plants that I'm practically killing because I've been too depressed to water them and remove the dead leaves and make it nice so that after work instead of enclosing myself in my apartment and crying I can take my dinner outside, enjoy the fresh air and maybe talk to a few passing neighbors.

 

[Alienated]

Well this is my little rant, and my personally experience of dealing with drunks and addicts off and on for 20 years. And I think that most would agree that they are the most self centered, egotistical, delusional, selfish, arrogant, narcissistic, people on the planet !!
I don't wish to debate, if you don't like it tough !! But I know for absolute fact every word is true, I have seen it work. Because I am here to write this, when I did it.

Compassion is exactly what their are looking for like a drug, and exactly what caused the problem in the first place. Self pity is a addiction, of feelings to be justified to comfort ones self. And absolutely ignore anyone else, they are in their own little pathetic world, and YES THEY LIKE IT !!

These myriad of problems you see today, didn't exist 30 years ago. Because if you didn't accept life on life's terms, you were dropped like a Hot rock in Hell. Giving someone a " There There... everything is going to be alright " . Is nothing more than a murderous lie, they have NO need to change as long as they are getting comforted.

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The word 'motivation' is used very commonly. But does anyone even know what it actually means? A very few would give a positive response to that. Motivation is basically a driving force. It is some kind of burning desire to achieve something. It is what makes us push towards our goal. Without motivation, one cannot successfully achieve anything. That desire, that spirit to achieve it has to be there. This fire within oneself that makes one move towards the goal is called motivation.
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By comforting them. It robs them of their motivation to change, and it WILL KILL THEM !! And maybe others around them too, because they will drag them down with them... Just look at society.... INSTANT GRATIFICATION... And guess what ? Nobody works hard for what they want, they take every short cut they can. And it has left them without Integrity, Fortitude, Strength, Endurance, Character, Healthy self pride or worth, and I could spend the next hour going on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on and on..... Just like the people crying Feel Sorry for me... over and over and over and over... But NEVER actually trying to change anything... Just give them another NEW pill, and a pseudo-psychologist to waste money on.

When all they have to do is get up, resist their FEELINGS. And do what they need to do to SURVIVE, or they can choice to quit and lay down and die. It's their choice !! But I am not going to help them commit suicide on MY dime !! I worked my ass off to get everything I have, and to dig myself out of that pit. And NOBODY was there to help me, you see my whole family is DEAD. And few have seen the levels of despair and hopelessness I have..... Or been to as many funerals of people that chose Not to listen... 39 and counting who's going to be next ??

And how you feel about it, doesn't change the results... Life was NEVER promised to be , or meant to be fair, or easy. We all have to climb that huge mountain, I made it most of the way now. Now ask yourself honestly where are you ?? And where do you want to be ? And how are you going to get there ?

Now you can get a BIG Mad-on for me, I don't care.... I can live with myself today, because I am NOT afraid of the TRUTH !!

End of rant.

 

[EveWasFramed]

Again, i am in no way invalidating someone's feelings. I have suffered through clinical depression myself to the point where it almost ruined my life. And, there was no way i could "pull myself up by bootstraps" and nowhere do i suggest that. But, if you want to get better you have to find help. And, as i said, i would highly recommend counseling in conjuction with medication if needed and prescribed. And, by doing that, it will bring you to a place where you CAN then start to help yourself. That is the reality. NOBODY can help you if you will not help yourself.
And, i found that yes, i was depressed and had those feelings. But i then CHOOSE to use those feelings as an EXCUSE to stop fulfilling my obligations to myself and everyone else. I allowed this to be my excuse to INDULGE in lazy behavior and not be whom i used to be and do the things i know that i should do. And, my counselor pointed this out. He said, "Yes, you are depressed, AND? Now what?". He said that being depressed is an EXPLANATION of how you feel but it is not an EXCUSE . For me, that was a very eye opening moment. Yes, i was clincally depressed. But, i ALLOWED this to become my excuse to stop taking care of myself, my home, my life as i knew that i should. It allowed me to give myself an excuse to indulge in the narcissistic world of Self Pity.
So, if you think i should "soften" this. Sorry. I think you and others need to understand that Depression is a FIERCE ENEMY and the way to attack is not by more self pity, self indulgent and "you poor thing". That will get you nowhere. It only exacerbates the problem. When i finally had this epiphany , i was able to start behaving better and in the midst of this depression i knew that i had to get up out of bed and START. In order to become a better person, you have to ACT like a better person. And, step by step, you build on those small successes.
I was literally to the point where making a sandwich seemed like a Herculean task. But, i have kids and a family and i realized i have to push forward for them, so i did one hour, one day at a time. And, yes, i have days where i still feel as i used to feel. I always will. But i can nurse this aspect of my life, feed it, fuel it and pet it with self pity. OR, i can allow myself to be despondant for an hour , and then what? Get UP and go about your day.
So, that is my advice. My life is back on track. That is what worked for me. I am not going to pet depression and self pity and treat it like an old friend. No freaking way. Every day i get up and determine to DESTROY it. So, nope, no soft approaches from me. If that is what you want, you certainly can go find it all over the place. But you need to honestly ask yourself if more of THAT is going to do anything to help you move on to a better place.

So you realize you used "I" close to 30 times in this post?
My reason for mentioning that is to point out that what works for YOU doesn't work for everyone.
People can offer reality-based advise, while still showing compassion for others.
Tough love can often push people over the edge instead of making them take a step back. I think the important thing is to realize that everyone is different and each person should be treated accordingly.

 

[Lady Gaga Snerd]

So you can use I but I can't? Oh ok lol. The best advice people get is usually from people like ME who have been there done that. So thanks but I don't need to lectured on how I may give advice or explain my experiences.

 

[LeaningIntoTheMuse]

I think recognizing the positives in life, rather than the negatives, can lead to a healthier and more productive and happier lifestyle.

 

[EveWasFramed]

So you can use I but I can't? Oh ok lol. The best advice people get is usually from people like ME who have been there done that. So thanks but I don't need to lectured on how I may give advice or explain my experiences.

Where did I say you couldn't use "I?"
So you give the best advice, for anyone and everyone, based on your own experiences? Because you've "been there and done that?"
I wasn't lecturing anyone. You seem to be a bit defensive.
Also, let me point out that no ONE person has cornered the market on "been there, done that" either. I'd be willing to bet you'd find plenty of people, right here on this forum, who have overcome plenty of adversity in their lives.
Again, my point was merely that what works for you may not work for someone else and that tough love isn't always best. *shrug*

 

[Alonewith2cats]

What about the people who really are trying and doing whatever they can to change things and they are still depressed due to whatever circumstances are making them unhappy? They're going to have their moments of crying no matter what. Does that make them self-centered and narcissistic?

 

[EveWasFramed]

What about the people who really are trying and doing whatever they can to change things and they are still depressed due to whatever circumstances are making them unhappy? They're going to have their moments of crying no matter what. Does that make them self-centered and narcissistic?

Looks like that's being implied, but I strongly disagree with that opinion.

 

[Alienated]

What about the people who really are trying and doing whatever they can to change things and they are still depressed due to whatever circumstances are making them unhappy? They're going to have their moments of crying no matter what. Does that make them self-centered and narcissistic?

I would ask how your way is working for you ? And if what you are doing doesn't work, then try something different.

That means to humble yourself to admit you don't have the answers or know what to do ! Only then can one be open minded enough to search for answers and be willing to learn. And break the pattern they are stuck in.

Until that happens they are trapped in their same self destructive behavior, and insist they are different or better than others.... Meaning they are self centered, and narcissistic.

The answer lays in humbling oneself... and paying very close attention to what is really happening in their lives... Identify the problem, seek solutions that others have tried, and then apply them to their lives.... Because two things will always hold true..

If nothing changes, then nothing changes...ever !! And all of your problems will always have one thing in common... YOU !!

Might I suggest look for the things that actually cause you the most grief, and deal with them accordingly.... And be willing to do what ever it takes without fear, to reach your goal. Don't make excuses for not taking action, that is always the # 1 reason for failure... Because nothing has changed.

It's your life....you are only responsible for what you say, think, feel ,or do... But also ALL the consequences of those decisions... Good or bad. Nobody can make you do or feel anything, it's a choice of how you respond, to the events you face.

And to quote RUSH : If you choose not to decide , you still have made a choice... I will choose FREE WILL !!

 

[Lady Gaga Snerd]

Try and tell that to your boss when he tells you to do something, see how long you keep your job. Because he isn't going to care about semantics, just getting the job done.

Deciding NOT to do what needs to be done, then nobody else can be blamed for the consequences. But yet There is the excuse ... Blaming others for our own refusal to take responsibility for our lives.

If someone doesn't like their life, it is only up to them to change it. If they don't do the work, they are solely responsible for that decision.... And it doesn't matter how they feel about it, they have to live with it.

And then again they can decide to feel sorry for themselves, or use the pain they feel as a motivator. It's just how bad does the pain have to get before the right decision is made ???

Either way reason or excuse .... Nothing changes till something changes. And if what they are doing doesn't work.... They really need to change the way handle life, or again live with the consequences. Good or Bad.

What about the people who really are trying and doing whatever they can to change things and they are still depressed due to whatever circumstances are making them unhappy? They're going to have their moments of crying no matter what. Does that make them self-centered and narcissistic?

Again, i think some of you are really missing the point i am trying to wake. In NO WAY did i say that your feelings are not valid, that you are magically going to stop feeling them or to pull yourself up by your boot straps and quit whining. I didn't say that at ALL.
What i am talking about is what is real and what is practical. Yes, you feel lousy, sad, depressed, angry, lonely, etc. Now WHAT? Now, what do you DO about it? Do you simply continue lying in bed and totally INDULGE and fuel and feed and pet these feelings? And, if you do, where in life is that going to get you? Will continuing in that manner do anything to improve your life or get you where you want to go?
For me, that is EXACTLY what is was doing. I was lying in bed waiting to magically feel better. My life started to fall apart. I stopped caring. I stopped living up to my responsibilities because i just didn't have the energy to even make a sandwich. I have been where many of you are.
I realized that i could not help myself! I couldn't pull myself up. If i could have, i would have which is true of every one. If you COULD, you WOULD, but you simply can't when you are at the bottom. So, you must get help through medical doctors, counseling, talking to a pastor, working it through with a good friend, reading books, praying or whatever else will at least push you ahead slightly. And, you have to take hold of counseling, medication, therapy, and then you have to HELP YOURSELF.
Nobody can do this for you but YOU. No person, friend, loved one, doctor or counselor can change your life without your help.
So, You must look squarely in the mirror and START. Fake it till you make it. GET up and start engaging in life. Today you will put on make up and iron your clothes. Tomorrow you will take the dog for a short walk around the block. The next day you will get out of the house and go to an event, etc.
And as you start to do these things you must fully engage yourself in that MOMENT. Focus on the task at hand and those moments.
And, am i calling depression narcissistic? YES! I am! And, it isn't until you look it squarely in the eye and realize you are fueling and feeding this monster of depression that you can change it. And, taking responsibility doesn't mean beating yourself up and putting yourself down. What it means is that now you KNOW and realize that you are feeding this bully in your life and giving it such prominence that instead of being a person with depressed feelings, you now literally embody the disease of depression.
Please listen and understand what i am really saying. I still have those feelings. I have days of absolute despair. I have days where i spend the day in bed staring at the feeling. But, i don't allow myself to feed this monster. I give myself a period of time to indulge it, and then i get up.
My point is that you have to stop embracing it! You have to look in the mirror and view this as an ENEMY in your life and FIGHT it. It will destroy you. It will rob you of friends, love, accomplishment and all the things you want. Wake up and stop inviting this Monster into your bed.
When i finally began down that road, my life is back on track. I have done this one step, one day, one minute at time of allowing myself to engage the moment. When i am cooking, i focus and think about cooking and preparing the best meal i can. When i am working, i focus on doing that well. And by doing this it has allowed me to retrain my brain and turn of the bleating negativity and insults that had permeated my brain.
Now, if this advice isn't for you, then disregard it. I can only offer up what i have found works for me. That's it. But, i believe there is someone out there who might find this to be good advice. If you don't, don't take it. And, save yourself the time of telling me why my advice is wrong. I don't care. It is what it is. And, i am not going to change my message.
The only one who cares whether or not you get out of bed today is YOU. If you don't, life will go on around you. People can only care and help so much. It is up to YOU to move forward with your life. It rests on you. That is the reality. I believe in facing and embracing reality.

 

[Alonewith2cats]

Well, I cleaned my balcony, watered my plants and trimmed off the dead leaves today and I didn't feel depressed and was happy with it when it was done so there must be something to using energy constructively. Now I can bring my meals outside, say hi to passing neighbors, talk to people on the phone, read a book and have a drink or pet my cats while enjoying the fresh air. It's better than being enclosed and depressed inside my apartment. Small things can make a difference.

 

[ardour]

What about the people who really are trying and doing whatever they can to change things and they are still depressed due to whatever circumstances are making them unhappy? They're going to have their moments of crying no matter what. Does that make them self-centered and narcissistic?

No, and more generally self pity seems like a normal release valve for when things get too much. Like anything it can become a crutch, but I'm tired of hearing speak disparagingly of those who express despair or loneliness as weak or too self-involved.

If you should feel compassion for others then why not yourself.

 

[ladyforsaken]

If you should feel compassion for others then why not yourself.

Very true. I need to take this advice, myself.

 

[Lady Gaga Snerd]

There is nothing wrong with indulging a bit of self pity. But, my question is how is that effective and useful in your life? Does that help you move ahead or does it hinder you? I think we all know the answer to that. I don't know why some of you find it difficult or disturbing to truly look at the impact that this practice has on your lives.
I am in no way invalidating feelings. Feelings are always going to be there. And, i do acknowledge and validate. But, ok, now what? Now i acknowledge i feel like crap today. I am tired. I want to stay in bed and pull the covers over my head. On some days, i do give myself permission to do just that. But what i do that every day? Where is that ultimately going to get me? Will that make my depression or sad feelings go away if i do that? How does that help or address the issue?
It doesn't. So, most days, i dust myself off , get up and try to make the best of the day. And, as i have done just that, over time it has gotten easier and easier to do.
So again, if you want to remain in bed, you may do so. Nobody can help you until you willingly help yourself. That is real. And, i deal in reality not "what ifs or might have beens".

 

[Alonewith2cats]

There is a difference between pity and compassion. Pity is negative. Compassion is positive. Pity means you feel sorry for yourself and think there is no way out of your depression. Compassion means you are sorry that you are depressed and want to help yourself out of it. Think of the difference when you have compassion or pity for others. You can have pity for them and do nothing or you can feel compassion for them which motivates you to help them.

 

[Senamian]

Well, I cleaned my balcony, watered my plants and trimmed off the dead leaves today and I didn't feel depressed and was happy with it when it was done so there must be something to using energy constructively. Now I can bring my meals outside, say hi to passing neighbors, talk to people on the phone, read a book and have a drink or pet my cats while enjoying the fresh air. It's better than being enclosed and depressed inside my apartment. Small things can make a difference.

Yes, they can make a difference! Finding what triggers certain feelings and behaviors, and finding what stops said feelings and behaviors is important.

I've found when my routine is disrupted - like the fact in this one year span I've moved... 4 times... And having my hobby torn apart twice, along with routine being non-existent it did a number. I have to get myself back into a routine, and just "get up and do it".

 

[lostatsea]

Wow I actually loved what you wrote Lady Gaga... for some people like myself it is so true... I get sad and depressed over things so much that I don't even try to really change it... I'm going to print it out and put it up somewhere so I can read it again and again....