Tyranny of first impressions with no second chances

[ardour]

Time again I keep encountering people who judge by a first or early impression, who will never give another chance once it’s formed. It has to be the most frustrating aspect of socializing, as I imagine it is for just about anyone with social anxiety. Why is there so much emphasis on the first impression? The more it happens the more anxious I get around new people.
Some of the more egregious examples:
About 9 years ago I started working part time in an office while studying. I met a friend of acquaintances and we got on really well, seemed to have a lot in common. But the second time we spoke I must have been tired and aloof. Well, for the next few months we never spoke again unless it were me initiating, trying to make up for my ‘mistake’. I sat at the same table in a break once and she abruptly got up and left. A shame because she was so in-your-face friendly at first and our personalities seemed well matched (similar lack of maturity.) This still plays over and over in my mind, what did I do...

Someone introduced me to their older Chinese colleague who works here, and the next I saw her I must not have returned the smile. For the last 3 years this woman has been at pains to avoid me, not being in the same area, avoiding talking to colleagues if I’m around as if I were some monstrous animal. This is after numerous attempts since to smile and say hello.

The women I was sitting opposite from for 7 years in my previous position (Hong Kong migrant with limited English) She hated me so much she refused to acknowledge my existence. I had to get colleagues to ask her work related questions on my behalf. She was friendly with a now good friend but has since stopped saying hello to him, presumably because he speaks to me. She does have social problems that have been commented on though.

Lastly… the girl I was hopelessly infatuated with who ended up despising me. I transferred and she helped with the training. Things seemed fine for about 3 weeks, but then I must have come across as cold or aggressive one day. No real conversation occurred for 4 months after that unless it were me practically cornering her on a couple of occasions. She was still sort of friendly in the day-to-day sense, but in hindsight it was with that patronizing, placating tone you get once things have gone sour. It culminated in sending a friend request as a friendly gesture... only to have my gesture interpreted as harassment. This really hurt and I haven’t been sleeping a full night since.

Now her replacement seems to have a similarly negative impression. I’m sleep deprived, exhausted and must seem like a creepy, incoherent..idiot. The people who bothered to know me though, don’t think that, so I’m considering asking them for a frank assessment of my facial expressions, manner, anything I could change. It occurs with women, but there isn't any objectively inappropriate behaviour going on. I don’t encounter anything like these judgements from men. Men don’t seem quick to judge and are far more relaxed and easier to know (*not all women react this way, I'd say about half do*)

It’s getting to the point where I’m dreading other's impressions and want it over with…. I can’t stand people refusing to wait until they know you better before passing judgement. At least be willing to have a normal conversation first.

 

[SofiasMami]

There could be some cultural things going on between the Asian ladies and you. What exactly, I don't know but don't discount that instead of something more personal or problems with making first impressions.
Speaking as a woman, if I sense a man I don't know well is coming on too strongly, I use a lot of nonverbal communication to say that. I don't normally do that with women because other women aren't threatening (as in bigger and/ or able to physically overpower me).

-Teresa

 

[Solivagant]

I tend to make a bad first impression myself and I don't like being judged by it, so I don't judge others based on first impressions either. I mean, people are going to have thoughts about you after they meet you, that can't be helped. But I would at least like more than one chance. I actually take the time to get to know people better, it would be nice to be given the same opportunity.

Needless to say no real conversation occurred for 4 months after that than unless it were me practically cornering he on a couple of occasions.

Maybe I read your post wrong, but if someone were "practically cornering" me on a couple of occasions, I can't say I'd be feeling very friendly towards them either. =/

I don’t encounter anything like these judgements from men. Men don’t seem quick to judge and are frankly just far more relaxed and easier to know (*not all women react this way, I'd say about half do*)

There could be a number of reasons for that, but one of them may be that women have to be a lot more careful about the men around them, just to keep themselves safe. Sometimes, as a woman, you get used to having to play defense, and maybe this results in some women making snap judgements even when it's not necessary.

Also, you are a man. Men are going to be more relaxed and less judgemental about you because they don't want as much from you as they would from a woman. Men are no less judgemental of women than women are of men.

 

[ardour]

Maybe I read your post wrong, but if someone were "practically cornering" me on a couple of occasions, I can't say I'd be feeling very friendly towards them either. =/

I didn't literally corner her. It was 3 or 4 attempts at non work-related conversation where she must have felt obliged to respond, and over months so it's not as though I wouldn't leave her alone.

 

[Batman55]

That's an interesting thing you mention about Asian women; while by no means do I aim to stereotype any of them, in my neck of the woods I have noticed that most of them tend to be incredibly aloof and will not look at you, smile, or anything, in contrast to the local women who seem to generally have an air of curiosity or friendliness, etc. I really think that this trait is more common to those who were born in other countries and came a bit later on, though. That has been my observation--I worked alongside one such woman a long time ago and she came off as cold and highly aloof, never offering any assistance unless directly asked for. (Others noticed it too, though.) Oddly enough, this woman was also a Hong Kong migrant! So, not a judgment, but an observation. Different cultures, different ways, I guess.

 

[jayme89]

Time again I keep encountering people who judge by a first or early impression, who will never give another chance once it’s formed. It has to be the most frustrating aspect of socializing, as I imagine it is for just about anyone with social anxiety. Why is there so much emphasis on the first impression? The more it happens the more anxious I get around new people.
Some of the more egregious examples:
About 9 years ago I started working part time in an office while studying. I met a friend of acquaintances and we got on really well, seemed to have a lot in common. But the second time we spoke I must have been tired and aloof. Well, for the next few months we never spoke again unless it were me initiating, trying to make up for my ‘mistake’. I sat at the same table in a break once and she abruptly got up and left. A shame because she was so in-your-face friendly at first and our personalities seemed well matched (similar lack of maturity.) This still plays over and over in my mind, what did I do...

Someone introduced me to their older Chinese colleague who works here, and the next I saw her I must not have returned the smile. For the last 3 years this woman has been at pains to avoid me, not being in the same area, avoiding talking to colleagues if I’m around as if I were some monstrous animal. This is after numerous attempts since to smile and say hello.

The women I was sitting opposite from for 7 years in my previous position (Hong Kong migrant with limited English) She hated me so much she refused to acknowledge my existence. I had to get colleagues to ask her work related questions on my behalf. She was friendly with a now good friend but has since stopped saying hello to him, presumably because he speaks to me. She does have social problems that have been commented on though.

Lastly… the girl I was hopelessly infatuated with who ended up despising me. I transferred and she helped with the training. Things seemed fine for about 3 weeks, but then I must have come across as cold or aggressive one day. No real conversation occurred for 4 months after that unless it were me practically cornering her on a couple of occasions. She was still sort of friendly in the day-to-day sense, but in hindsight it was with that patronizing, placating tone you get once things have gone sour. It culminated in sending a friend request as a friendly gesture... only to have my gesture interpreted as harassment. This really hurt and I haven’t been sleeping a full night since.

Now her replacement seems to have a similarly negative impression. I’m sleep deprived, exhausted and must seem like a creepy, incoherent..idiot. The people who bothered to know me though, don’t think that, so I’m considering asking them for a frank assessment of my facial expressions, manner, anything I could change. It occurs with women, but there isn't any objectively inappropriate behaviour going on. I don’t encounter anything like these judgements from men. Men don’t seem quick to judge and are far more relaxed and easier to know (*not all women react this way, I'd say about half do*)

It’s getting to the point where I’m dreading other's impressions and want it over with…. I can’t stand people refusing to wait until they know you better before passing judgement. At least be willing to have a normal conversation first.

I can relate to this! When I started my current job there was a guy that worked there who would go out of his way to speak to me and ask me about my day if he saw me. He was very polite and friendly. Although I have a natural tendency to be shy and quiet, I really made an effort to reciprocate the kindness. I would speak back to him and ask him question too instead of my usual one word replies and I would smile when I saw him and say "hello" (a vast improvement from how I used to be). Then there was one time after new years where he asked me what I did for new years and I asked him what he did. He showed me a picture of him at a new years party and I said "looks nice". Then there was just an awkward pause as I didn't really know what else to say and he walked away. After that he LITERALLY never talked to me again. He would just walk by my desk and being that I thought we were still friendly with each other, I would say "hello" and smile. But he would just look at me and look away, saying nothing! It was sooo weird (and embarrassing)! I thought that maybe it was a one time thing and he just had a bad day but it continued to happen. I literally have no idea what I did.

I thought I was friendly and conversational with him. definitely improved from how I used to be. I don't talk to any one else that works there because i'm a receptionist and i'm usually alone at work so it's not like anyone knew me and had anything bad to tell him about me. Its just crazy how someone can just change and go from being so overtly friendly to you to just not speaking to you. I don't know what led him to the change but regardless, after he ignored my attempts to say hello to him a couple times i completely stopped trying after that, and thats what I recommend you to do as well.

If someone doesn't like you for whatever reason do not go out your way to smile at them and talk to them, you only make yourself look like a desperate fool who just needs the approval of others (which your not). You know your a good person and you know you did nothing wrong. For some reason, whatever you did (or didn't do) has given these people a negative perception of you. And thats all it is, [/i]their perception. You know who you truly are and you have nothing to prove to anyone else! A lot of people these days decide they don't like you just cuz they want someone who will literally bend over and kiss them on the ass..and if you don't do that for them then they'll choose not to talk to you! So thats my biggest advice to you and I hope you take it. Keep everything strictly professional. If they DO say hello to you, just say "hello" back with no smile and with nothing else added. If they Do ask "how are you" say "fine", no smile, nothing else added after that. These people don't deserve your kindness and your smile. Don't be rude to them, but don't go out your way to talk to them either! There will be other people in the world who will like you, screw these people.

 

[ardour]

Latest example with a new person. We sat by one another in a training session a couple of weeks back and she seemed friendly and asked about my previous position (she worked in a similar job) Well I was lacking sleep and didn’t respond very well (and it was earliesh morning godamit. No good then!) Anyway the impression is established it seems with no possibility to change it. I attempted some innocuous conversation next session and she’s *hugging the wall* to keep her distance on the way there and sits as far apart as possible. My worth judged in a handful of words. And the younger women here have pretty much palied up, there are no other men, so I’m like the creepy guy on the margins. Sometimes I just want to go work on a construction site, away from all this. If my mother were still around she'd be telling me to act like a man and focus on the work, that none of this need be important. Where's the mental detach button when you need it.

 

[Yokel]

I've always stressed on anyone's first impression of me. Its the worst feeling coming home feeling like a screw up nearly every time I meet someone. I also hate the fact that a lot of the time, people will judge you based on the people you hang around with.

 

[ardour]

Then there's the cases where someone appears to give you another shot but really hasn't gotten over their early impression, remaining wary even if agreeable on the surface. I've wasted time thinking about situations like this, why things never progressed to a more relaxed stage, what else I could do. I even apologised explicitly in a couple instances, but the trouble is that can be seen as attention-seeking and/or harassment.

Men are subject to varying moods like women, but as soon as we exude anything other than a happy outgoing demeanor we're condemned for life as some horrid person.

 

[Nightwing]

Men are subject to varying moods like women, but as soon as we exude anything other than a happy outgoing demeanor we're condemned for life as some horrid person.

A little on the nose for my tastes, but I've seen it happen. The great thing about the equality movement for women is that they can now display a whole bunch of different personalities which all generally received positively. The only real expectations on their behaviour is the sort of polite/respectful aspects of societal interaction. Alas, a number of them haven't quite caught up to place similar expectations upon men. The expectations are higher. Showing emotion is not considered masculine.

Then again, you could say that similar expectations are placed on both sexes when it comes to first impressions. We just allow the pretty ones to get away with things thanks to the halo effect. *shrugs*

I wouldn't worry about it too deeply. The more detail you go into, the more you realise that 99% of people won't look at this beyond the surface. All you can ever ask is that you're true to yourself. If people don't like it, they don't like it. That's their loss. Ultimately, you can't expect everyone to like you, so you should try not to get disproportionately upset when someone doesn't based upon a first impression.

 

[Sci-Fi]

...there is so much negativity towards women in this thread. Knock it off.

I hope you guys do realize that it too CENTURIES for women to get where they are today. They had to fight for equal rights and still are not equally on par with men. There is a growing trend of acceptance of men being more emotionally in touch, but just like woman fighting for equality, it is going to take time. Nothing just happens overnight. It seems like you guys just except to snap your fingers and everything be perfect, that is not how the world works. You screw up your first impression that is your fault, NOT the fault of the other person. You want a second chance you have to prove yourself differently which WILL TAKE TIME!! If you've repulsed someone so much with your first impression it's time to really evaluate yourself.

 

[Badjedidude]

If someone puts so much stock into first impressions, then you probably don't want to get to know them anyway. It's just a matter of self-knowledge; it's about knowing how first impressions affect us and how we view others. In a way, people who make snap judgements based on first impressions most of the time are just living on instinct -- they don't even stop to think twice or ask themselves why they've rejected someone. They simply see what they see and feel what they feel and that's good enough for them.

In contrast, some people understand that first impressions can be misleading and inaccurate. If someone makes a bad first impression on me, I'm generally always going to ask myself: "Well... were they nervous? Were they having a bad day? Maybe they were just tired, maybe their child is sick at home and they're worried about it," etc etc. It takes like two seconds to look past a first impression and perhaps spend a couple of minutes talking to the person at a later date. And sometimes it turns out that the first impression was right. Sometimes, however, it turns out that the first impression was wrong.

The people that you want to be around are the type who will give you that second chance, so... don't stress too much when people reject you based on first impressions. Those probably aren't the sort of people you want to be around to begin with.

 

[jaguarundi]

The meaning of your communication is the response you get.

 

[Nightwing]

I hope you guys do realize that it too CENTURIES for women to get where they are today. They had to fight for equal rights and still are not equally on par with men. There is a growing trend of acceptance of men being more emotionally in touch, but just like woman fighting for equality, it is going to take time. Nothing just happens overnight. It seems like you guys just except to snap your fingers and everything be perfect, that is not how the world works. You screw up your first impression that is your fault, NOT the fault of the other person. You want a second chance you have to prove yourself differently which WILL TAKE TIME!! If you've repulsed someone so much with your first impression it's time to really evaluate yourself.

I see thoughtless political correctness is alive and well XD

I'm very interested in your final sentence. (Repulsing someone on a first impression suggests that there's something wrong with you.) Would you apply the same standard if a chav was repulsed by you? What about religious zealot? A racist? I'm not sure I'm entirely convinced by what appears to be a rather black and white approach to matters.

 

[Triple Bogey]

Latest example with a new person. We sat by one another in a training session a couple of weeks back and she seemed friendly and asked about my previous position (she worked in a similar job) Well I was lacking sleep and didn’t respond very well (and it was earliesh morning godamit. No good then!) Anyway the impression is established it seems with no possibility to change it. I attempted some innocuous conversation next session and she’s *hugging the wall* to keep her distance on the way there and sits as far apart as possible. My worth judged in a handful of words. And the younger women here have pretty much palied up, there are no other men, so I’m like the creepy guy on the margins. Sometimes I just want to go work on a construction site, away from all this. If my mother were still around she'd be telling me to act like a man and focus on the work, that none of this need be important. Where's the mental detach button when you need it.

You sound a bit like me when I was in my 20's.

I think it's a mixture of it happening as you say and your looking for it. Every little thing you notice. And you add a negative slant onto things. First of all, not everybody is going to like you or want to talk. You gauge that by their responses. If I talk to people at work and they don't reply much or aren't very interesting then I don't make much of an effort after that. I say 'hello' and reply to them if they talk to me.

Today for example, when I started I walked in the shop and hardly anybody said 'hello', nobody spoke, they just ignored me. I could have thought 'they don't like me' or ' I have done something wrong and they aren't talking' but I didn't because I started chatting, asking them about the stuff in their lives, general chit chat, talked about myself and the morning was normal.

I have had some huge rows with almost everybody at work and everything always goes back to normal. I think people do give second chances.

I would concentrate on your work. And if one or two people are friendly towards you then there isn't a problem. Just chat with them and ignore the others.

 

[TheSkaFish]

There is a growing trend of acceptance of men being more emotionally in touch, but just like woman fighting for equality, it is going to take time.

See, I don't know about that. I agree that us guys who are emotional may have to change, though - however, I think it may mean to tone down the emotions, especially around women. I am pretty emotional myself, probably for the worse. I get really angry when things don't go my way, and even angrier when you add to that watching someone win big who isn't a good person. I look into this stuff pretty regularly, and something I've found time and again is the idea that women are more attracted to men who show less emotion. Some studies were done, I forget where the article was from, that showed women pictures of smiling men and more stoic ones, and the women gravitated to the more stoic types. This would back up the idea that given only two options, women gravitate towards bad-boy dickweeds versus sensitive guys, no matter how much better people the sensitive guys may be and no matter how shallow, stupid, selfish, and actually rotten the bad boys may be.

I would guess that a lot of us guys here, a lot of us guys who can't figure out how to get a girlfriend or seem to face walls of rejection, are in fact good people. And look at the guys who have no trouble getting girlfriends - everything from simply unpleasant people like dumb, douchey club guys and arrogant yuppies, all the way up to actually dangerous people like gangbangers, drug dealers, psychopaths, and even killers. This makes me think that a person can be very attractive, but not a good person. Being a good person alone will not seal the deal because it's not really a major factor, if it's a factor at all. Some really horrible guys have had girlfriends, so attraction doesn't seem to be correlated with morality. It's frustrating because we've been taught that being good gets good, the golden rule. Why should someone dislike you if you are good?

My theory is that the sensitive guys, through showing their emotions to such an extent, demonstrate a lack of control over themselves and therefore a lack of masculinity - and almost any other guy would demonstrate more masculinity by default, no matter how lousy of a person they are. At our core, men are attracted to femininity, and women are attracted to masculinity, and femininity/masculinity doesn't necessarily correlate with how good or bad of a person someone is. We all know the stories of women chasing drug-addled, violent rockstars. Likewise, us guys could be very turned on by an attractive woman but who is a bad person.

I don't believe that us sensitive guys need to go out and get a beer belly, tattoo sleeves, a Harley, sawed-off shotgun, cocaine and membership in the nearest biker gang - the bad boys really are stupid ********. However, I do feel that it's not a great strategy to hope that times will change and women will start accepting emotional men - you can't change the laws of nature. Showing less emotion has to be the way. It's not necessarily arrogance, it's more like, you have to let yourself feel good about yourself. You have to take a little leaf out of the books of rockstars and champions. A little bit of "I'm good and I know it", not so much that you are smug but enough to carry yourself with pride.

I'd also like to add on that I don't believe us sensitive men should tone down ALL emotion and become robots - by all means, I think we should share the good emotions like happiness, excitement, and so on - but perhaps in a more measured, controlled way. And we should absolutely minimize the bad emotions - anger, frustration, complaining, whining, etc. - yes I've done all these so I'm not judging you. We should minimize these negative emotions around women because they are paint us in a victim light, they only go to show women that we are not in control of our lives and therefore are low in masculinity - leading to rejection, which leads to more feeling like a victim, which leads to more anger, frustration, complaining and whining, which leads to more rejection, etc. - that's why it feels like we will never get it. Because it is cyclical. We have to promote our masculine traits and minimize what demonstrates a lack of masculinity. It doesn't mean be bad. It means be in control of yourself and do not cast yourself as a victim.

I'm no guru nor do I mean to come off as one. Just a guy like the rest of you all, trying to make some sense of this. I don't claim to KNOW what women want either, not being a woman - just making theories based on evidence.

 

[Minus]

See, I don't know about that. I agree that us guys who are emotional may have to change, though - however, I think it may mean to tone down the emotions, especially around women. I am pretty emotional myself, probably for the worse. I get really angry when things don't go my way, and even angrier when you add to that watching someone win big who isn't a good person. I look into this stuff pretty regularly, and something I've found time and again is the idea that women are more attracted to men who show less emotion. Some studies were done, I forget where the article was from, that showed women pictures of smiling men and more stoic ones, and the women gravitated to the more stoic types. This would back up the idea that given only two options, women gravitate towards bad-boy dickweeds versus sensitive guys, no matter how much better people the sensitive guys may be and no matter how shallow, stupid, selfish, and actually rotten the bad boys may be.

Being stoic means you are a "bad-boy dickweed" and getting really angry when things don't go you way or when someone else wins big means you are a sensitive good guy?

 

[TheSkaFish]

See, I don't know about that. I agree that us guys who are emotional may have to change, though - however, I think it may mean to tone down the emotions, especially around women. I am pretty emotional myself, probably for the worse. I get really angry when things don't go my way, and even angrier when you add to that watching someone win big who isn't a good person. I look into this stuff pretty regularly, and something I've found time and again is the idea that women are more attracted to men who show less emotion. Some studies were done, I forget where the article was from, that showed women pictures of smiling men and more stoic ones, and the women gravitated to the more stoic types. This would back up the idea that given only two options, women gravitate towards bad-boy dickweeds versus sensitive guys, no matter how much better people the sensitive guys may be and no matter how shallow, stupid, selfish, and actually rotten the bad boys may be.

Being stoic means you are a "bad-boy dickweed" and getting really angry when things don't go you way or when someone else wins big means you are a sensitive good guy?

I see I forgot the connection I was going to make in between the two ideas. Being stoic doesn't mean being a bad-boy dickweed (or loaf of dick-bread?). It only means being stoic. What I was saying was, the dickweeds, the jerks, they tend to show less emotion than the sensitive guys. While they are not really stoic, they are much closer to it than the sensitive guys, who don't seem as if they are in control of themselves to any degree. And the idea that they they show less emotion means that they, according to the study, are generally perceived to be more attractive. My guess for this is because they seem, at least on the surface, to be in a greater degree of control over themselves than the sensitive guys - therefore demonstrating higher levels of masculinity - OR, the sensitive guys demonstrate such a low level of masculinity that it doesn't take much to beat them. A lot of people don't like to hear about relationships and dating/mating in terms of "win, lose, beat, etc." but it truly is competition. Probably why I haven't done so well, but I digress.

And getting angry when things don't go my way is but one example of being sensitive, being out of control. Anything that paints yourself in a victim light is no good, like another poster was saying earlier, this guy was telling her all the reasons why she shouldn't like him. He didn't have himself together.

The point I'm trying to make with all this is that attraction isn't completely random. I used to believe it was random and I was just S.O.L., just some kind of cosmic joke, just born without whatever it was that the guys who could date anyone have. But the more I looked into it and observed, the more patterns I saw. There is some randomness, sure. But I also believe that there are a lot of things that almost certainly work and a lot of things that almost certainly don't.

 

[SofiasMami]

Latest example with a new person. We sat by one another in a training session a couple of weeks back and she seemed friendly and asked about my previous position (she worked in a similar job) Well I was lacking sleep and didn’t respond very well (and it was earliesh morning godamit. No good then!) Anyway the impression is established it seems with no possibility to change it. I attempted some innocuous conversation next session and she’s *hugging the wall* to keep her distance on the way there and sits as far apart as possible. My worth judged in a handful of words. And the younger women here have pretty much palied up, there are no other men, so I’m like the creepy guy on the margins. Sometimes I just want to go work on a construction site, away from all this. If my mother were still around she'd be telling me to act like a man and focus on the work, that none of this need be important. Where's the mental detach button when you need it.

[/quote]

I'm with mom on this one. Except mentally attaching (instead of detaching) to yourself and looking inward will give you a new perspective. Instead of paying attention to the lady that seems grouchy or the lady that seems like she has her back turned to you, how about focusing on yourself for once?

-Like - How am I doing? Do I like the meeting I'm in at the moment? Am I satisfied with how this week is going? What's on tv tonight? What do I want for lunch? What should I post on ALL today?

My signature is a religious quote although I'm not religious. It reminds me to look inward to find what I need.

-Teresa

 

[Batman55]

Some studies were done, I forget where the article was from, that showed women pictures of smiling men and more stoic ones, and the women gravitated to the more stoic types.

If true, that's excellent news for me!

It's been a lifelong habit. (But it doesn't seem like it has helped much, if at all...)