Victims vs victim mentality

[SofiasMami]

Oh, I just geeked out on your Occam's Razor reference, Xpendable

Thank you, stork_error. There are many articulate and thoughtful forum members here and that is why I've stuck around so long.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'm hopeful the tone and tenor of the forum will improve a bit as I believe it is an invaluable resource and even a lifesaver for us Lonely people.

-Teresa

 

[Despicable Me]

I dont want to be the person who tips someone over the edge and causes them to kill themselves. Sometimes a simple lack of empathy is all a suicidal person needs to take their own life.

Sometimes all a person needs to tip over the edge is some empathy to justify their feelings and build up those emotions to the breaking point.
Sometimes a more heavy-handed approach is what someone needs.

You just never know.
But either way you can still show them that you care. That's what is important, no matter how you approach it.

You cannot blame yourself for the outcome. People make their own choices no matter what you do.

It's a double-edged sword..... Like Occam's Razor.

 

[mintymint]

SofiasMami, I understand that you don't like much of what TheRealCallie says or how she says it, but keep in mind that what she has contributed to the forum has also helped many people over the years. It still does, and I believe it comes from a place of sincerity. I feel the need to point out that certain sentiments are not echoed throughout the forum's entire population.


More importantly, I doubt things will work themselves out if they continue on in this manner. Perhaps you two should just put each other on ignore, or ask a moderator to act as an intermediary to help you come to some sort of a resolution.

 

[Despicable Me]

Perhaps you two should just put each other on ignore, or ask a moderator to act as an intermediary to help you come to some sort of a resolution.

Learning to forgive others is easier to do.
I think both of these individuals have that capacity in abundance. Whether they share it or not is another matter.

 

[user 115627]

I'm gonna start with what I said in another thread before and what stork_error also mentioned here. I know I wouldn't want to have blood on my hands for putting a potentially well-meant message across, but in a blunt manner just because it is "my way of expressing myself". There comes a point where you start asking yourself if it's worth it for the sake of authenticity or any other personal reason. There is a helluva lot of space inbetween coddling and tough love. I'm not here for the witchhunt though, but for a broader perspective as always.

If I've learned one crucial thing about communication it's the massive trench between what you're saying and what the other person is receiving. And more often than not you can tell what would be most promising approach at communicating with an individual. If you genuinely want to help, you gotta adjust the message sometimes. I'd start questioning myself if people repeatedly told me that the potential distress caused might outweigh whatever good I was trying to achieve. Good intentions can pave the road to hell.

I know what kind of damage it did when someone was hellbent on "helping" me while starting off by telling me how stupid and insane my personal decisions were. Success rate: Zero. And I just backed off...in the end I even felt vindicated by others who made similar experiences. That happens as well. No matter if you're at the receiving end or not, going seperate ways (to the respective ignore lists) can be the only logical outcome if communication on the same wavelength is just not possible.

Regarding the whole victim vs. victim mentality: I'm coming from the other end, always blaming myself for everything. Effectively forming a culprit mentality. While that's just as unhealthy it opened my eyes on how to approach situations in which I have been or might end up being the victim in the future. In the end it does not matter who is at fault, because to make progress you'll have to make a move on your own. Rationally speaking, if someone hurt you intentionally (and if there is no legal basis for redemption), you won't see this person making amends.

You can see where this is going, but there are multiple ways to express this. For me it's to look out for yourself, cause more often than not nobody else is gonna do it for you. We're all trying to achieve a state of contentment or dare I say happiness, but nothing is ever gonna happen if we're endlessly recapping all the situations in life where people treated us unjustly. Life is not fair and everyone is dealt a different set of cards. But you must play yours in the best way possible. That's the bottom line of the whole "You're at fault for not moving on" deal to me.

 

[Despicable Me]

I'm gonna start with what I said in another thread before and what stork_error also mentioned here. I know I wouldn't want to have blood on my hands for putting a potentially well-meant message across, but in a blunt manner just because it is "my way of expressing myself". There comes a point where you start asking yourself if it's worth it for the sake of authenticity or any other personal reason. There is a helluva lot of space inbetween coddling and tough love. I'm not here for the witchhunt though, but for a broader perspective as always.

If I've learned one crucial thing about communication it's the massive trench between what you're saying and what the other person is receiving. And more often than not you can tell what would be most promising approach at communicating with an individual. If you genuinely want to help, you gotta adjust the message sometimes.

This is very true, but I think this was directed at me, and for the wrong reasons.
I agree that messages should be catered to specific individuals. Every person is different and so is their circumstances. So you should deal with each situation differently. There is no one-size-fits-all answer. You must be aware of what you say and how others might perceive it. You should be prepared for that. And if you're not, the question should be why you're trying to help at all. What your reasons are for that.
But as I said above, you simply cannot know. And there is no point in blaming yourself for other people's decisions. You can only do what you can do. If people take that the wrong way, so be it. One should always acknowledge the consequences before they take action. Ignorance has never helped anyone.

No matter if you're at the receiving end or not, going seperate ways (to the respective ignore lists) can be the only logical outcome if communication on the same wavelength is just not possible.

I believe that communication is always possible if both parties are willing. I disagree with your methods of rejecting such a possibility because that is the core of what makes communication not possible, but I think that is another topic for another time.

 

[SofiasMami]

Yes, minty, the ignore button is a great function but it fails when entire threads are hijacked. Anyway, I think I've said all that I have to say here. People can judge for themselves on the OP's points.

-Teresa

 

[user 115627]

Basically off-topic:

This is very true, but I think this was directed at me, and for the wrong reasons.
I agree that messages should be catered to specific individuals. Every person is different and so is their circumstances. So you should deal with each situation differently, and sometimes that means an unconventional method. You must be aware of what you say and how others might perceive it.
You should be prepared for that. And if you're not, the question should be why you're trying to help at all. What your reasons are for that.
But as I said above, you simply cannot know. And there is no point in blaming yourself for other people's decisions. You can only do what you can do. If people take that the wrong way, so be it. One should always acknowledge the consequences before they take action. Ignorance has never helped anyone.

No, it wasn't. You're just another example, DM. A rather personal example in my case. You obviously did not forget since you felt adressed though. Which is good, cause neither did I. Since that statement is based on an assumption, I won't even question why you think you can claim my reasons were "wrong" for they were personal. Otherwise we'll just repeat the procedure. Mind that I do remember your proclaimed reason for trying to help me was that you "just have to do this"...it was enough for me.

I believe that communication is always possible if both parties are willing. I disagree with your methods of rejecting such a possibility because that is the core of what makes communication not possible, but I think that is another topic for another time.

There are plenty of fish in the sea and I'm not afraid of letting some off the hook for good. For my own mental safety. So let's just keep it as it is. We had a good run by merely co-existing so far and I learned to just leave things be and keep my mouth shut, even if I disagreed with your methods or portrayed worldview on multiple occasions.

 

[Danielle]

SofiasMami, I understand that you don't like much of what TheRealCallie says or how she says it, but keep in mind that what she has contributed to the forum has also helped many people over the years. It still does, and I believe it comes from a place of sincerity. I feel the need to point out that certain sentiments are not echoed throughout the forum's entire population.


More importantly, I doubt things will work themselves out if they continue on in this manner. Perhaps you two should just put each other on ignore, or ask a moderator to act as an intermediary to help you come to some sort of a resolution.

I'm with Minty on this one...

Callie has helped me in many ways over the years, and her advice comes from the heart. Some may feel it is extreme, but sometimes people need to hear the truth in a "hold no punches" sort of way.

 

[Triple Bogey]

SofiasMami, I understand that you don't like much of what TheRealCallie says or how she says it, but keep in mind that what she has contributed to the forum has also helped many people over the years. It still does, and I believe it comes from a place of sincerity. I feel the need to point out that certain sentiments are not echoed throughout the forum's entire population.


More importantly, I doubt things will work themselves out if they continue on in this manner. Perhaps you two should just put each other on ignore, or ask a moderator to act as an intermediary to help you come to some sort of a resolution.

I'm with Minty on this one...

Callie has helped me in many ways over the years, and her advice comes from the heart. Some may feel it is extreme, but sometimes people need to hear the truth in a "hold no punches" sort of way.

I disagree, she is an annoying bully. Seems quite a nasty character as well reading her replies on this thread.

 

[Danielle]

QUOTE FROM TRIPLE BOGEY-

I disagree, she is an annoying bully. Seems quite a nasty character as well reading her replies on this thread.
[/quote]



Whoa.... that wasn't called for. Lets not call people names..

 

[Triple Bogey]

SofiasMami, I understand that you don't like much of what TheRealCallie says or how she says it, but keep in mind that what she has contributed to the forum has also helped many people over the years. It still does, and I believe it comes from a place of sincerity. I feel the need to point out that certain sentiments are not echoed throughout the forum's entire population.


More importantly, I doubt things will work themselves out if they continue on in this manner. Perhaps you two should just put each other on ignore, or ask a moderator to act as an intermediary to help you come to some sort of a resolution.

SofiasMami is one of the nicest people on here. If she is upset then there must be good reasons. I support her 100%.

---

QUOTE FROM TRIPLE BOGEY-

I disagree, she is an annoying bully. Seems quite a nasty character as well reading her replies on this thread.

Whoa.... that wasn't called for. Lets not call people names..
[/quote]

What she wrote on here was un called for. Very rude.

 

[Soler]

..

Do you do anything other than scream at people?

 

[AmytheTemperamental]

Everyone should just shut up and suck in some fresh air.

 

[Despicable Me]

No, it wasn't. You're just another example, DM. A rather personal example in my case.

Either it was and I'm an example for you, or it wasn't and you weren't using me as an example at all.
You can't have it both ways.

But since I already knew what you were getting at, since you hate me so much for whatever reason, I knew you were directing that post at me. So I'm not sure why you pretend to hide it. I'm not sure why you'd deny it, either. I'm certainly not stupid. I see past those silly sorts of games.

You obviously did not forget since you felt adressed though. Which is good, cause neither did I. Since that statement is based on an assumption, I won't even question why you think you can claim my reasons were "wrong" for they were personal.

Just like an opinion can be wrong, someone's reasons can be wrong.
For example, an opinion based on incorrect information they were given. Just look at politics in America as an example of those sorts of "opinions". Their reasons for their political support are just as valid, which is to say not valid at all.

In this case it is your personal reasons which are based on me being someone I'm not. Your assumptions and beliefs and confusion of things you believe of me but are simply not true. Because you didn't spend a moment to fully understand what I was trying to say before rejecting that communication. And I unknowingly touched on some nerves, which set you off.

Even still, I'm not sure why you have to take everything I say as something against you. Did you not just say you have a self-admitted culprit-mentality and not a victim-mentality? Then why do you always act like the victim when I reply to you? I don't get it. I really don't. Of course I also don't know you well, either.

Otherwise we'll just repeat the procedure. Mind that I do remember your proclaimed reason for trying to help me was that you "just have to do this"...it was enough for me.

Thank you for pointing this out.
It is an excellent example of taking something I said the wrong way and turning yourself into the victim, rather than actually being a victim.

I'm also not sure why you believe this is off-topic. I think it's perfectly fitting given the situation. This problem demonstrates the importance of truly understanding the difference of actually being a victim and simply identifying yourself as one.

There are plenty of fish in the sea and I'm not afraid of letting some off the hook for good. For my own mental safety. So let's just keep it as it is.

You have admitted in the past that you aren't afraid of hurting yourself, and that it is unimportant to you if you do, if it ensures others' safety. So what "mental safety" is there for you in this? What is true and what isn't? Who are you trying to protect, yourself or others? Whenever you try to argue like this every time it seems to contradict something else that you have said in the past. Why is that?

Furthermore,
You have yet to learn anything about me and you make all these assumptions, but I think you do know one thing about me: I do not just leave things the way they are. I change things. Whether you believe I change them for the worse or the better is entirely up to you, but I think you must admit this. I do change things. It's not just something that I do, it's everything that I am. It's my very essence.
So maybe you don't know me, but I think you know better than to ask me to just keep things the way they are. That's probably the last thing you'd ever want to say to someone like me. It goes against everything I believe.

But I'm not arrogant or proud. I admit that I am not perfect. Maybe you are right and that I have harmed you. Maybe I've harmed a lot of people. Maybe everything I do and everything I believe is wrong.
However, the fact is you're not the first person to question me, nor will you be the last. I have always been the most skeptical critic of myself and my beliefs. And so if what I do is wrong despite everything I do to try to make it right, then all I ask is that you have some sympathy for such a poor wretch like me.

@ the current topic of Callie's comments:
No need to be insulting. I've not gotten along with Callie in the past, either. But I do think she means well. You just have to look beyond the harsh exterior.
One thing I've learned that is very important to actually being a victim is forgiveness. You will always be the victim so long as you cannot forgive those who victimize you. Being able to let those things go is what allows you to be free from that.
As opposed: People who wish to be the victim (victim-mentality) cannot forgive, because there is no one to forgive but themselves. And that is why they so strongly believe they are the victim. They constantly bully themselves.

 

[SofiasMami]

Everyone should just shut up and suck in some fresh air.

Indeed, sunshine and fresh air are beautiful things.

-Teresa

 

[user 115627]

Not this again, never again. I have absolutely no sympathy for you and I just got reminded why. Stop trying to convince me how much you care, cause these are the games I am sick of. You think you are so goddam smart, but not smart enough to see that you do no good here. You change things, but not for the better. You just keep pushing and pushing blindly because of your "beliefs".

But you know what you are really doing? You make me want to tear my ******* guts out, Despicable Me. Do you feel like a hero yet?

I won't let you hide behind the mask of the misunderstood because you are doing that all the time and you learned nothing from your past experiences with people, not just on this forum.

 

[Despicable Me]

You are truly confused, Rodent. I hope the best for you, even if you do not wish the best for me.

 

[user 115627]

You are truly confused, Rodent. I hope the best for you, even if you do not wish the best for me.

I've never seen more clearly....still the same condescending patronization as always. What I wish for you I can't even say without getting banned.

 

[VanillaCreme]

Enabling is a term coined by and most often used by psychological and counseling professionals. YOU are not qualified in that respect to decide what is and isn't enabling anyone here on the forum, especially given the anonymous nature of the forum.
If you read the OP, you would have read that point.

-Teresa

And who are you to say who can't give their thoughts on that subject? Everyone here is allowed to comment without someone bumping in and telling them the proper, uppity definition of something. Callie may not be a counseling professional, but she's got a right to put her thoughts out there, as do you. Now, if someone said that to you, they'd be wrong.

I disagree, she is an annoying bully. Seems quite a nasty character as well reading her replies on this thread.

Ignore members you don't like. We're not here to babysit because some people just want to throw a fit when someone says something they disagree with. If you dislike it so much, use some common sense and ignore it. Stop going around the forum and insulting whomever you don't like. This is definitely not the first time you saw fit to toss insults around.