Why so much shame?

It seems to me that when it comes to love, sex, and relationships there are several trivial rules, obligations, aspects etc. that we are expected to follow, obey, condone, accept, etc. and if we don't then we feel ashamed about it.

WHY IS THIS?!

For example:

If I ever get into a relationship, I would feel ashamed if I ever tried to initiate sex with my girlfriend. Men are always ready for sex, women are not. I think it should be the girl's responsibility/decision to initiate sex. Any pressure for sex by the man can be seen as a lack of respect towards their partner. It's very common for men to be branded as ******** for breaking up with a woman because she never initiated sex. HOWEVER, if a man never initiated sex he would probably be dumped eventually (because the woman would might think he doesn't find her physically attractive) and still meant to feel like honeysuckle because he wasn't "man enough" or confident enough. And other men would laugh (not to their face) if another man got dumped because he never initiated sex.

I sometimes wonder what life would be like if it was the other way around. If women were always ready for sex and could reach orgasm easily and men were the complete opposite.

And why do I feel ashamed for thinking about this and posting this on a forum where people will judge me in a negative way?

It really amazes me how pursuit of sexual pleasure can lead to so many negative stigmas and feelings of guilt and shame and reasons to hate yourself in general for having these thoughts. Yet I understand why they do, at least I think I do.

Anyone else have some examples they'd like to share in regards to trivial rules men and women are expected to follow when it comes to love?

And of course, please give me your input on the example I gave.

Society + Stigma = Shame in doing such stuff

Poueff said:

Society + Stigma = Shame in doing such stuff

Click to expand...

Hi Lynth, You sound like a nice caring individual to be honest. I think its understandable to take the other person in to consideration after all we are differnet sexes and have different needs. I think this can probably be best solved by talking to your partner, communication is key i think. You shouldn't feel guilty though, you cant help your thoughts. Most men dont even consider the other person so you should feel better that you even think like this.

Lynth said:

It seems to me that when it comes to love, sex, and relationships there are several trivial rules, obligations, aspects etc. that we are expected to follow, obey, condone, accept, etc. and if we don't then we feel ashamed about it.

WHY IS THIS?!

For example:

If I ever get into a relationship, I would feel ashamed if I ever tried to initiate sex with my girlfriend. Men are always ready for sex, women are not. I think it should be the girl's responsibility/decision to initiate sex. Any pressure for sex by the man can be seen as a lack of respect towards their partner. It's very common for men to be branded as ******** for breaking up with a woman because she never initiated sex. HOWEVER, if a man never initiated sex he would probably be dumped eventually (because the woman would might think he doesn't find her physically attractive) and still meant to feel like honeysuckle because he wasn't "man enough" or confident enough. And other men would laugh (not to their face) if another man got dumped because he never initiated sex.

I sometimes wonder what life would be like if it was the other way around. If women were always ready for sex and could reach orgasm easily and men were the complete opposite.

And why do I feel ashamed for thinking about this and posting this on a forum where people will judge me in a negative way?

It really amazes me how pursuit of sexual pleasure can lead to so many negative stigmas and feelings of guilt and shame and reasons to hate yourself in general for having these thoughts. Yet I understand why they do, at least I think I do.

Anyone else have some examples they'd like to share in regards to trivial rules men and women are expected to follow when it comes to love?

And of course, please give me your input on the example I gave.

Click to expand...

Pressure and initiating are two different things.

Mary Mary said:

Lynth said:

Any pressure for sex by the man can be seen as a lack of respect towards their partner. It's very common for men to be branded as ******** for breaking up with a woman because she never initiated sex.

Click to expand...

Pressure and initiating are two different things.

Click to expand...

Yes, that is true. Perhaps I should watch what I type a little better because I know what you're getting at. The mere attempt though at initiating sex can be taken as a form of pressure.

What I meant to type was:

It's very common for men to be branded as ******** for breaking up with a woman because she never attempted to initiate sex.

Lynth said:

Mary Mary said:

Lynth said:

Any pressure for sex by the man can be seen as a lack of respect towards their partner. It's very common for men to be branded as ******** for breaking up with a woman because she never initiated sex.

Click to expand...

Pressure and initiating are two different things.

Click to expand...

Yes, that is true. Perhaps I should watch what I type a little better because I know what you're getting at. The mere attempt though at initiating sex can be taken as a form of pressure.

What I meant to type was:

It's very common for men to be branded as ******** for breaking up with a woman because she never attempted to initiate sex.

Click to expand...

When you say attempted to initiate sex, do you mean sex for the first time or she just never initiates sex even after they start?

A woman who's hypersensitive enough to feel pressured at the mere attempt of initiation is someone you may not want to date again anyway. Normal women will not only not judge you but will want you to initiate sex. They may ask you to wait until they're more comfortable, but an emotionally healthy woman will be able to express her wishes in a positive way.

I've had a couple budding relationships fall to the way side because the guy never initiated sex. I won't initiate sex for the first time because I'm too shy; so if he doesn't, then it'll never happen. Then I lose interest not because he didn't initiate sex but only because we're not having it. I know it's not fair to put all the onus on men; but even though I'm generally not shy in dating, I'm very shy about that.

I've never heard of anyone dumping anyone because of their partner never initiated sex once they do start having it. I've heard people complaining about it, but I've never heard that a being the reason for breaking up with someone.

I would like it if a girlfriend initiated sex. Infact i think it is quite sexually attractive knowing that your girl is wanting to have sex with you. Men are pretty much always ready so i think for a woman to sometimes initiate is a good thing... It shows she wants you in a sexual way and is not just trying to please you but also wants to please herself aswell which is how it should be really. Afterall it does take two to tango!

ShybutHi said:

I would like it if a girlfriend initiated sex. Infact i think it is quite sexually attractive knowing that your girl is wanting to have sex with you. Men are pretty much always ready so i think for a woman to sometimes initiate is a good thing... It shows she wants you in a sexual way and is not just trying to please you but also wants to please herself aswell which is how it should be really. Afterall it does take two to tango!

Click to expand...

I know it's not fair, but I just can't. After the first time, I can. It's just the first time, I can't initiate. That being said, I told you guys about bell bottoms and scally cap. I really wanted to like this guy, and while we were watching TV (this was after about three months of dating), he put his arm around me--as he usually did. So, I started being somewhat seductive. I started leaning on him and putting my body in very seductive poses. Nothing. Beyond the dead fish arm behind my back, nothing. I gave up.

The moral of this story is that you've got to act sexually interested in a woman like you'd like to do more than put your arm around her. You don't have to go all the way; but if she starts behaving seductively, you need to respond in some form.

Mary Mary said:

The moral of this story is that you've got to act sexually interested in a woman like you'd like to do more than put your arm around her. You don't have to go all the way; but if she starts behaving seductively, you need to respond in some form.

Click to expand...

Yep i agree with that, both people should ofcourse show each other that they are interested in taking things further. That guy you dated doesnt seem like he is the most perceptive type of guy.