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Has anyone ever had bullies at work?
#21
There's no easy way of dealing with it unless it's something clear-cut like sexual harassment. Everyone makes mistakes so a case for firing someone can be made relatively easily; managers can simply claim the person is covering up for incompetence in response to a formal complaint or lawsuit. Just so thankful I'm not in this situation.
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#22
I had a work place bully that was my boss. I was young and delivering care to at risk individuals. He wrote me up for everything he could, after I declined dinner out. Eventually I started taking my own documentation. When he would come at me with something, I would pull out my notes and say " fine, and then when you do that I will forward......". Eventually he left me alone. Three years later at a different work place and community I received a phone call asking for my notes as they were firing him and needed documentation. My belief is documentation is power....no one that is a bully likes to be on record.
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#23
(12-15-2016, 01:01 PM)Sci-Fi Wrote: Suing someone for a hostile work environment usually has to fall under you legals systems definition of harassment like race, color, gender, religion, disability, sexual preference, etc.  It can be tricky but not unheard of but without meeting certain criteria it is unlikely a lawsuit would be successful.

But you can record the hostility on a video from your cell phone in your pocket. I had to be on a meeting with management once because I defended a colleague on a  mass REPLY ALL  email so I got called in, and I had an HR rep with me because I told the manager the meeting was not happening unless I had a rep, and I did record the entire meeting on my phone. The meeting's outcome was ok, but if there is bullying, you can record, and show as proof. Bullying is not an acceptable behavior in any civil society.
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#24
(12-15-2016, 03:05 PM)AlexD Wrote:
(12-15-2016, 01:01 PM)Sci-Fi Wrote: Suing someone for a hostile work environment usually has to fall under you legals systems definition of harassment like race, color, gender, religion, disability, sexual preference, etc.  It can be tricky but not unheard of but without meeting certain criteria it is unlikely a lawsuit would be successful.

But you can record the hostility on a video from your cell phone in your pocket. I had to be on a meeting with management once because I defended a colleague on a  mass REPLY ALL  email so I got called in, and I had an HR rep with me because I told the manager the meeting was not happening unless I had a rep, and I did record the entire meeting on my phone. The meeting's outcome was ok, but if there is bullying, you can record, and show as proof. Bullying is not an acceptable behavior in any civil society.

That has nothing to do with what I was talking about. I didn't say anything about bullying being okay. I've actually been bullied most of my life so I know what it's like. I had a boss I could have sued for what I was referring to, he fell in quite a few of those categories, but I didn't have the resources to do so and couldn't get the legal help I needed.

Also you can't just record people without their permission or knowledge. I had a neighbour once who tormented everyone around her, another neighbour hid a tape recorder to catch the harassment, it was not admissible into court because the neighbour did not have knowledge of the recording. There was a scuffle between the two women. She got off and was never charged even though there was proof. In fact the neighbour who was the victim in it all was charged with assault because during the scuffle the other woman's necklace was broken and the woman faked injury wearing a neck brace and got away with it. She was also photographed by the neighbour to show proof she was faking injuring, but because the photographs were taken without the woman consent or knowledge it was not admissible.
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#25
Tis true. You can't legally record people without them knowing.

You can and should sue (if you have the means to do so) if all the criteria is met, but sadly, most bullying situations do not meet that criteria and it's a waste of everyone's time, money and energy to try.
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#26
(12-15-2016, 12:46 PM)AlexD Wrote:   It worked well for the person that I know. I am glad you are a part of this movement. But I have known other people who've addressed their bullies successfully, too. You just don't let them be, with or without a movement. Perhaps my friend had an awesome lawyer. But she is still employed there, last I heard, it's been several years now. I have  question for you, so I can learn. If workplace hostility is not a basis for a law suit, then how come so many corporations brainwash you during employee orientation week about them being a hostility-free company? Is it possible there have been more than one law suit because of bullying? I am just wondering what you think.

Because HR is stupid and needs to do things to justify their job. In general HR probably would prefer to not deal with bad behavior. 

But make no mistake... because I am tired of seeing it...hostile work environment alone is NOT illegal. Hostile work environment is a term used with regard to sexual harassment. Lawyers are currently trying to find common law ways of filing suit. I saw one recently that used promissory estoppel (the idea that the employee was promised a harassment free workplace) but it is going to lose as that term is used in connection with contracts. 

Anyone can file a law suit and you may get a company to throw you some money to settle, but don't count on it.
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#27
@ LonelySutton: OK I was an enabler alright, in a work environment that seems less toxic than the one you describe. I kept my eyes down and my mouth shut and did my carpenter work with my team and eventually all three of us quit. No excuses, I'm not proud of pretending I didn't see what was going on. I can say that I've never repeated the scenario in the years since.

For what it's worth I've crossed paths with the fellow carpenter who was humiliated and picked on by the foreman and the lead carpenter and he's either a forgiving kind of guy or doesn't blame me for staying out of the line of fire or he's a good actor. We agreed the two perpetrators were real a**holes and that we're both lucky to be gone from that job. His amiable conduct was a humbling experience for me.
Be here now.
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#28
(12-16-2016, 08:08 AM)constant stranger Wrote: he's either a forgiving kind of guy or doesn't blame me for staying out of the line of fire or he's a good actor.   We agreed the two perpetrators were real a**holes and that we're both lucky to be gone from that job.  His amiable conduct was a humbling experience for me.

Sorry to say --- >>>> "acting". To this day there are a lot of people I hate for not helping me when I needed it and will drop a dime on who think I am their BFF.   Recently I discovered that my bully's wife is sick and I asked about her condition to a friend and she told me *not good*  and I smiled and said "good" I hope she dies soon and painfully. I know my friend almost passed out. Not thinking I was capable of such evil. But I am. The truth is as a bullying victim, if you ever have a problem with anyone else than the "narrative" will be that you weren't bullied, but that there was something wrong with you. So for the rest of my days I have to be jolly on the outside, and a Dexterish psycho, on in the inside. 

Anyway though sounds like you were in a different situation than me and it probably was a smaller amount of time and that probably made the person who was bullied more forgiving.
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#29
Now I'm a little afraid of you LonelySutton, and I think I should be.
Be here now.
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#30
(12-16-2016, 11:19 AM)constant stranger Wrote: Now I'm a little afraid of you LonelySutton, and I think I should be.

Me?  as Norman Bates likes to say... I wouldn't hurt a fly. Smile

   Much..
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