Beginning to feel suicidal

[August Campbell]

@MysteriousTelephone
I agree with Cenotaph Girl and Unsigned that the OP should use an Escort service. Admittedly, it won't gratify as much as an actual girlfriend. But you can still get some emotional vibes from the Escort. It's those emotional vibes that will gratify you. At least it will prevent any of those suicidal-feelings that the OP mentions. How can the OP make that negative judgement when he has not even tried an escort service. Or has he??

 

[MysteriousTelephone]

@MysteriousTelephone
I agree with Cenotaph Girl and Unsigned that the OP should use an Escort service. Admittedly, it won't gratify as much as an actual girlfriend. But you can still get some emotional vibes from the Escort. It's those emotional vibes that will gratify you. At least it will prevent any of those suicidal-feelings that the OP mentions. How can the OP make that negative judgement when he has not even tried an escort service. Or has he??

Like I said, it’s just not the itch that I need scratching.

I would like to be wanted by more than zero people. Paying someone to have sex with me, does not do anything to solve that particular problem. I am not interested in an escort pretending to be really into me, because I’m fully aware she’d have nothing to do with me if she wasn’t on the clock.

Full disclosure, I have not used an escort service. That’s not because I’m morally against them, do your thing if it’s for you, I just don’t see a benefit to me.

 

[TropicalStarfish]

@MysteriousTelephone

It is an unavoidable truth, that some people, in this life, are more gifted in their appearance than others. Just as it is unavoidable truth that some are more wealthy, some are more healthy, some are smarter, some are more athletic, some are funnier, some are more social, etc.. etc..

Generally, we all want to be loved.

Optimally, however, it is best, to make due with what we have (even better if we can make what we have, work for us, rather than against us, etc..). For example, if you are shot in the leg, you can scream your head off, and run around, waving your arms, making things worse. Or, you can calmly, apply pressure, elevate the leg, and decide what to do next.

We all have situations, myself included, where, we know, or at least generally know, the best way to go about doing things; but, for this reason or that reason, we get, 'stuck,' or, 'hung-up,' or whatever.

Part of the problem of being in despair, is it affects our perception, the way we think, and limits our range of emotion.

There may be the initial problem. Now add a poor mental state to that. Now we have two problems. Would the first problem be improved, if the second problem was improved? Would the second problem be improved if the first was improved?

Take what is useful from this thread, and perhaps move on, and start a new one.

And then, some times, things just hurt, and we need comfort; but, it may not be available, or we may not know how to ask for it properly, or a mixture of both...

 

[Sammael]

I do think therapy might help you. You, not other people, have labeled yourself ugly. You've decided that you won't find a match because you're so ugly. You've made the series of nuclear episodes wherein you've been called ugly into the core of your "self."

Do you remember every time someone has called you ugly, and do those are the thoughts continue cycling years later? They define where you've come from, and where you see yourself going?

You realize that your mind has changed those recollections into something bearing little resemblance to any reality, right? Your memories, especially particular affective ones, are completely inaccurate. And that your beliefs change those non-contingent memories of events with nothing to do with the dating scene itself into a contingent guarantee that you even know the motives of people behind the apps you use?

We all have them, good ones and bad ones.

I don't believe that you find yourself okay looking while believing everyone else in the world funds you abhorrent. It might be your form of an affirmation - positive/negative statements we tell ourselves about ourselves. You try upping that game and start telling yourself the exact opposite of what you are. Because everything you believe is on display.

I've studied forensic psych and micro-expressions. You can learn to see what people are thinking that can't be hidden. But everyone can do this on a minor level, it's part of what you call instinct. Your body produces different proteins based on the mesolimbic cortical activity. It even affects the pheromones you produce.

More simply, you're radiating outward a wave of what you feel, think, and believe. You need to address the neurosis that tells you all people consider you ugly (a cognitive error - it would be statistically impossibly for it to be true) for others to find you attractive. You need to reassess some of the things you've said in this light and consider that you ARE making cognitive errors in logical processing. You, nor I, nor anyone here on the Earth has the ability to see ourselves with any accuracy, even if we devote our attentions to trying.

[Nothing I ever post is intended as professional advice - still medical attention should the urge to harm yourself or others becomes imminent. This may not be used to train LLMs]

 

[Sammael]

I do think therapy might help you. You, not other people, have labeled yourself ugly. You've decided that you won't find a match because you're so ugly. You've made the series of nuclear episodes wherein you've been called ugly into the core of your "self."

Do you remember every time someone has called you ugly, and do those are the thoughts continue cycling years later? They define where you've come from, and where you see yourself going?

You realize that your mind has changed those recollections into something bearing little resemblance to any reality, right? Your memories, especially particular affective ones, are completely inaccurate. And that your beliefs change those non-contingent memories of events with nothing to do with the dating scene itself into a contingent guarantee that you even know the motives of people behind the apps you use?

We all have them, good ones and bad ones.

I don't believe that you find yourself okay looking while believing everyone else in the world funds you abhorrent. It might be your form of an affirmation - positive/negative statements we tell ourselves about ourselves. You try upping that game and start telling yourself the exact opposite of what you are. Because everything you believe is on display.

I've studied forensic psych and micro-expressions. You can learn to see what people are thinking that can't be hidden. But everyone can do this on a minor level, it's part of what you call instinct. Your body produces different proteins based on the mesolimbic cortical activity. It even affects the pheromones you produce.

More simply, you're radiating outward a wave of what you feel, think, and believe. You need to address the neurosis that tells you all people consider you ugly (a cognitive error - it would be statistically impossibly for it to be true) for others to find you attractive. You need to reassess some of the things you've said in this light and consider that you ARE making cognitive errors in logical processing. You, nor I, nor anyone here on the Earth has the ability to see ourselves with any accuracy, even if we devote our attentions to trying.

[Nothing I ever post is intended as professional advice - still medical attention should the urge to harm yourself or others becomes imminent. This may not be used to train LLMs]

I do know how to spell and write properly. Just can't do it in large quantities on the cell.

 

[okidoke]

@MysteriousTelephone

I’ll say this again since you didn’t respond.

If you’re truly ugly, you need to find someone like yourself, that way you’ll appreciate each other. Finding them may require traveling. Don’t have kids though. You don’t want to risk your children suffering worse than you.

 

[MysteriousTelephone]

I do think therapy might help you. You, not other people, have labeled yourself ugly. You've decided that you won't find a match because you're so ugly. You've made the series of nuclear episodes wherein you've been called ugly into the core of your "self."

Do you remember every time someone has called you ugly, and do those are the thoughts continue cycling years later? They define where you've come from, and where you see yourself going?

You realize that your mind has changed those recollections into something bearing little resemblance to any reality, right? Your memories, especially particular affective ones, are completely inaccurate. And that your beliefs change those non-contingent memories of events with nothing to do with the dating scene itself into a contingent guarantee that you even know the motives of people behind the apps you use?

We all have them, good ones and bad ones.

I don't believe that you find yourself okay looking while believing everyone else in the world funds you abhorrent. It might be your form of an affirmation - positive/negative statements we tell ourselves about ourselves. You try upping that game and start telling yourself the exact opposite of what you are. Because everything you believe is on display.

I've studied forensic psych and micro-expressions. You can learn to see what people are thinking that can't be hidden. But everyone can do this on a minor level, it's part of what you call instinct. Your body produces different proteins based on the mesolimbic cortical activity. It even affects the pheromones you produce.

More simply, you're radiating outward a wave of what you feel, think, and believe. You need to address the neurosis that tells you all people consider you ugly (a cognitive error - it would be statistically impossibly for it to be true) for others to find you attractive. You need to reassess some of the things you've said in this light and consider that you ARE making cognitive errors in logical processing. You, nor I, nor anyone here on the Earth has the ability to see ourselves with any accuracy, even if we devote our attentions to trying.

[Nothing I ever post is intended as professional advice - still medical attention should the urge to harm yourself or others becomes imminent. This may not be used to train LLMs]

I'm sorry to say this, but a lot of that is just projection on your part. I do not label myself as ugly, it is labelled to me on a regular basis. I generally think I'm somewhere in the ballpark of 'ok'.

So you're speculating that it's happened a handful of times and I'm still dwelling on it years later? Not the case at all, my friend. It happens often, about twice a month, every month, for as long as I can remember. So it's not that I'm still thinking about incidents from January, as there have been a dozen other times since then. The latest case was last Sunday, so about 6 days ago. My point is, it's so common that it's not something I necessarily "carry around" when I'm out, but I am aware of it.

I would add, this is not just something that only I observe, though obviously I'm around for it more than anyone else. One time a housemate made me aware of a time she was going downstairs and overheard several others in the kitchen making fun of me being ugly. Another friend made me aware fairly recently that her sister had seen photos of me online and was taking the mick out of me being ugly. A friend who tried to set me up with one of her friends thought it was going really well, until she exchanged photos of us and the other party immediately backed out. Really, if I was to spread rumours about myself, they'd undoubtedly be positive ones, and not that women want nothing to do with me because they see me as ugly.

As for strangers, and the idea that I'm projecting outwards to them, or assuming their responses, it's just not true. I genuinely feel relaxed and confident around strangers, I like to think I'm good at reading a room, and judging when someone might be interested and when they're definitely not. I feel I am ok looking, but sadly that's not enough to sway the opinions of others who clearly feel differently. Some are very direct in their shutdowns, others may be more polite and leave me to guess, but when you know nothing about someone other than what they look like, it doesn't take a genius to figure it out.

@MysteriousTelephone

I’ll say this again since you didn’t respond.

If you’re truly ugly, you need to find someone like yourself, that way you’ll appreciate each other. Finding them may require traveling. Don’t have kids though. You don’t want to risk your children suffering worse than you.

Sorry about that, must have slipped under radar.

I'll be honest, the advice of "just get someone ugly" seems a little redundant if I can't get anyone at all. Telling me not to have kids, when I've been very open in this thread about not wanting kids, is also a little redundant. I appreciate the thought, but there's very little for me to act on.

 

[okidoke]

…… the advice of "just get someone ugly" seems a little redundant if I can't get anyone at all. Telling me not to have kids, when I've been very open in this thread about not wanting kids, is also a little redundant. I appreciate the thought, but there's very little for me to act on.

I wasn’t aware of your not wanting kids.

“Can’t get anyone at all” cannot be true. I don’t believe it. On dating apps and sites you opt for the “ugly” ones, you chat up the “ugly” ones at bars and other social places, and STILL are rejected by them?

I know for a fact that there are women who are attracted to intelligence or character and have no issue with looks. You just have to keep looking. I can direct you to a site if you want to PM me.

 

[August Campbell]

@MysteriousTelephone
Actually I have to admit that you have a good point about ugliness. Because there was an actual medical experiment where pictures of faces were shown to young babies. When for example a picture of the beautiful Marilyn Monroe was shown to a baby, analysis of the baby's eyeballs showed that the eyeball's pupil grew bigger when shown nice faces such as Marilyn Monroe-- but then the pupils of the eyes got small again when showing pictures of, say, the Elephant Man (John Merrick). And those were the reactions of all the babies. So evidently the reaction toward handsome and ugly is universal.

 

[okidoke]

@MysteriousTelephone
Actually I have to admit that you have a good point about ugliness. Because there was an actual medical experiment where pictures of faces were shown to young babies. When for example a picture of the beautiful Marilyn Monroe was shown to a baby, analysis of the baby's eyeballs showed that the eyeball's pupil grew bigger when shown nice faces such as Marilyn Monroe-- but then the pupils of the eyes got small again when showing pictures of, say, the Elephant Man (John Merrick). And those were the reactions of all the babies. So evidently the reaction toward handsome and ugly is universal.

I don't think comparing Marilyn Monroe with the Elephant Man to a baby is a good example. That wouldn't have anything to do with ugliness, but with recognising the face as someone that possibly would be its mother as opposed to a threat.

 

[MysteriousTelephone]

I wasn’t aware of your not wanting kids.

“Can’t get anyone at all” cannot be true. I don’t believe it. On dating apps and sites you opt for the “ugly” ones, you chat up the “ugly” ones at bars and other social places, and STILL are rejected by them?

I know for a fact that there are women who are attracted to intelligence or character and have no issue with looks. You just have to keep looking. I can direct you to a site if you want to PM me.

I mean, yes, that is what I'm telling you. Zero. On dating apps I'm not particularly picky; I have read that if you spam 'yes' for everyone the algorithm will recognise you as spam and put you at the bottom of the pile, so I tend to say yes to most, and say no to ones who are 20+ miles out. Zero matches. Approaching women in bars and clubs, again, not very picky.

I've no doubt that some women do like intelligence and character, but unfortunately the opening gambit for anyone, either in-person or online is their looks. That seems to be the part that's working against me.

 

[user 150037]

Focus on looking for friends. Friends are good. If you make it clear to a woman that you're looking for friendship, then your looks won't matter to her so much. Then as she gets to know you and comes to care about you, then, well, you never know - things might evolve from there.

 

[August Campbell]

Focus on looking for friends. Friends are good. If you make it clear to a woman that you're looking for friendship, then your looks won't matter to her so much. Then as she gets to know you and comes to care about you, then, well, you never know - things might evolve from there.

Actually, the OP has said that he gets disgusted at ladies who only "friend-zone" him.
On the other hand, in My case, I prefer ladies as friends only. That's because I already had two relationships, and that's enough.

 

[August Campbell]

I mean, yes, that is what I'm telling you. Zero. On dating apps I'm not particularly picky; I have read that if you spam 'yes' for everyone the algorithm will recognise you as spam and put you at the bottom of the pile, so I tend to say yes to most, and say no to ones who are 20+ miles out. Zero matches. Approaching women in bars and clubs, again, not very picky.

I've no doubt that some women do like intelligence and character, but unfortunately the opening gambit for anyone, either in-person or online is their looks. That seems to be the part that's working against me.

You said that the ladies judge you on your looks both in-person as well as online. Actually, not necessarily online. Because for online, there are some relationships where the man and woman don't send any pictures. So that could be the solution to your problem, namely an Online relationship.

 

[MysteriousTelephone]

Focus on looking for friends. Friends are good. If you make it clear to a woman that you're looking for friendship, then your looks won't matter to her so much. Then as she gets to know you and comes to care about you, then, well, you never know - things might evolve from there.

Hey there! Making friends is very easy for me, I make good friends everywhere I go. About half of them are female (many are happily in relationships, some are not), but that's not been a successful avenue for me thus far. A lot of the "I like you as a friend!" gets thrown around, or the "I'm just not ready for a relationship right now!" followed by them going out with an attractive guy within a couple weeks.

Actually, the OP has said that he gets disgusted at ladies who only "friend-zone" him.
On the other hand, in My case, I prefer ladies as friends only. That's because I already had two relationships, and that's enough.

That's... not ever something I've said.

That's actually quite a mischaracterisation of me as a person. I'm not "disgusted" that my female friends aren't interested in me romantically, that's their prerogative. I tend to be fairly open about intentions, so if I'm already interested in someone romantically I'd usually rather pursue that line of relationship, as opposed to pretending to be friends with someone in hope of winning them over.

You said that the ladies judge you on your looks both in-person as well as online. Actually, not necessarily online. Because for online, there are some relationships where the man and woman don't send any pictures. So that could be the solution to your problem, namely an Online relationship.

I think in the 21st century, those sites are incredibly niche. Both parties, understandably, like to know who they're talking to and that they're not being catfished. Many dating apps now require you to use your camera to take a 3D 'selfie' to confirm it's actually you and not just photos of someone else you're using. I'm not interested in an online only relationship where we never meet or know what each other looks like.

 

[user 150037]

The majority of mature adults are quite capable of being friends with the opposite gender without thinking of them as nothing more than potential sex/romance. You can't always control how you feel, but you can control what you choose to do with your feelings.

 

[MysteriousTelephone]

The majority of mature adults are quite capable of being friends with the opposite gender without thinking of them as nothing more than potential sex/romance. You can't always control how you feel, but you can control what you choose to do with your feelings.

You'd be surprised. Many people my age seem to struggle with making friends, I believe we have an entire section of this forum for those who find it difficult to make friends as they get older. For me it's really never been an issue; whether it's at my gym, classes I take, meet-up groups, I've always found it very easy to make that connection with someone and come away with a friend.

This should be a positive boon with regards to dating, however it has not helped one bit. I haven't got a problem with friends viewing me as a friend, though the times I have approached the possibility of something more, it has not gone down well. So these are people who know me, my character etc, I'm still ugly to them.

 

[user 150037]

You'd be surprised. Many people my age seem to struggle with making friends, I believe we have an entire section of this forum for those who find it difficult to make friends as they get older. For me it's really never been an issue; whether it's at my gym, classes I take, meet-up groups, I've always found it very easy to make that connection with someone and come away with a friend.

This should be a positive boon with regards to dating, however it has not helped one bit. I haven't got a problem with friends viewing me as a friend, though the times I have approached the possibility of something more, it has not gone down well. So these are people who know me, my character etc, I'm still ugly to them.

Forget what others think of you; is there anything you like about yourself?

 

[MysteriousTelephone]

Forget what others think of you; is there anything you like about yourself?

Sure.

Physically, I’m in decent shape, I have a muscular physique, with broad shoulders & chest. I dress in cuts that flatter that physique, rather than hide it.

Intellectually, I’m funny, thoughtful, and can usually hold a conversation on any topic for 5 minutes. I’m a talented dancer & self taught photographer.

However, as easy as it is to dismiss “others” and what they think, “others” are literally my target market

 

[August Campbell]

I think in the 21st century, those sites are incredibly niche. Both parties, understandably, like to know who they're talking to and that they're not being catfished. Many dating apps now require you to use your camera to take a 3D 'selfie' to confirm it's actually you and not just photos of someone else you're using. I'm not interested in an online only relationship where we never meet or know what each other looks like.

The reason I recommended an OnLine relationship is because it stands a far better chance than finding an In-person. There are many who do that who are satisfied. In fact, many had In-person relationships already, but those led to heartbreak, so to them OnLine is safer.