I think that the main problem of today is respect

[roy1986]

How can you develop love toward anyone, if people refuse to respect on another, prior to love.

For many women I was involved with, respect was just a recommendation and I honestly can't really understand
why would you do stuff like ignoring instead of doing the graceful thing and say "listen, I am sorry but it's not going to work out",

why does it always have to be in such a disgusting manner? whenever I a girl I don't want to be involved with tries to contact me, I simply do the honorable thing and tell her, I don't ignore her and then respond after she writes again, after several hours. 
That's completely messed up, you have a great date, you kiss, you think everything is alright and then a few days later, she gives you the "talk to the wall" treatment instead of simply rejecting you politely.

I can't describe how wrong this is, in so many different levels, it's one thing to get a rejection, but also treated like honeysuckle prior to it, that's messed up. 
I honestly can't see myself trusting anyone because of my past experiences.

 

[TheRealCallie]

I get where you are coming from, but just because you would do something a certain way doesn't mean everyone will or has to. Just because they don't tell you flat out that they don't want to be with you doesn't mean they are being disrespectful. They just have a different way of doing things. Granted, there are probably some that do that and ARE being disrespectful, but I don't think that's true for the majority.

You say they didn't tell you, but did you ask? You can't know the motives of someone else so to assume that you do know (ie, they were "treating you like honeysuckle," etc) can also be a form of disrespect, IMO.

Whether you choose to trust someone or not in the future is obviously your choice, but it is a choice and if you choose to not trust new people based on what you went through with old people.....well, that again, is kind of disrespectful, isn't it?

 

[VanillaCreme]

Why ignore? Because people can. None of us are owed an explanation of why we're turned down. To feel entitled to that is a personal issue someone has. That doesn't mean they are actually owed anything because they want it. It's an option we all have, and just because you wouldn't do it, doesn't make it the wrong option. We can choose how to handle our own situations.

 

[roy1986]

it's not about providing an explanation, it's about simply saying "sorry, no, bye" , instead of making the other feel like a dumb ass.

 

[TheRealCallie]

it's not about providing an explanation, it's about simply saying "sorry, no, bye" , instead of making the other feel like a dumb ass.

As I said, I get what you're saying, but I feel that if you feel like a dumbass, it's because of your own insecurities or whatever, as opposed to what the other person does or does not do. 

I assume you....took the hint, I guess, so why exactly would you feel like a dumbass?  Wouldn't you feel similar if she had told you upfront?

 

[VanillaCreme]

it's not about providing an explanation, it's about simply saying "sorry, no, bye" , instead of making the other feel like a dumb ass.

I get it, and I understand. But respect is earned. It shouldn't be expected, even in return. Those simple words shouldn't be expected. And if the other person feels any type of way, that's their issue. They should deal with that themselves.

 

[kamya]

Yup and in the future when you are being guilted and shamed about how you decide to treat others and people try to push you to do things because "its the right thing to do" remember this thread.

They don't owe you honeysuckle. You are entitled nowadays if you expect common decency. So in return, you don't owe anyone else honeysuckle. People dont give a fresia about you, dont bother giving a fresia about them.

In the end you just have to realize that no one actually cares about you or how you feel. Only how you make them feel. And if they might feel uncomfortable then they dont care if you feel frustrated and sad and like a dumbass. Their comfort comes before any empathy or sympathy or concern with how they make you feel.

 

[ardour]

OP isn't owed it, but it is inconsiderate, particularly if things were looking like they were progressing well.

 

[TheRealCallie]

Yup and in the future when you are being guilted and shamed about how you decide to treat others and people try to push you to do things because "its the right thing to do" remember this thread.

They don't owe you honeysuckle. You are entitled nowadays if you expect common decency. So in return, you don't owe anyone else honeysuckle. People dont give a fresia about you, dont bother giving a fresia about them.

In the end you just have to realize that no one actually cares about you or how you feel. Only how you make them feel. And if they might feel uncomfortable then they dont care if you feel frustrated and sad and like a dumbass. Their comfort comes before any empathy or sympathy or concern with how they make you feel.

It's not about eye for an eye here.  It's about being who YOU are and not expecting everyone else to have the same beliefs as you do.  Not expecting everyone to BE you, in a way. 
You can be mean or you can be nice, but in the end, that doesn't change anything.  Other people are still going to be who they are.

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So are you all saying you have NEVER ignored someone you didn't want to talk to anymore? I find that hard to believe, I'm pretty sure everyone has done that, at least once.

 

[ardour]

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So are you all saying you have NEVER ignored someone you didn't want to talk to anymore?  I find that hard to believe, I'm pretty sure everyone has done that, at least once.

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I haven't.  Of couse I've never really been in the positiion of rejecting someone romantically, but it's not something I would do unless their behaviour were becoming extreme or disturbing.

 

[kamya]

I can also say I havnt. I give many chances and my reasons are always clear.

If it has ever happened (maybe it has i dunno) it has been on accident.

Also thats what i was getting at. Other people are how they are. In the future dont let people try to manipulate you. Be who you are. You dont owe them anything. A lot of people are stuck in the people pleaser roll. Life has been much better for me the less I care and the more I act selfishly without worrying about making someone else feel good or happy or worrying if I might make someone upset. Once you realize no one cares about you it becomes pretty easy.

 

[ardour]

So in return, you don't owe anyone else honeysuckle. People dont give a fresia about you, dont bother giving a fresia about them.

I'm not sure if this is partly what you mean, but 'turning the tables' by ignoring someone who's ignored you only works if you still have something they want.  It's clear she no longer wants anything from him. All he can do is save face.

 

[TheRealCallie]

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So are you all saying you have NEVER ignored someone you didn't want to talk to anymore?  I find that hard to believe, I'm pretty sure everyone has done that, at least once.

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I haven't.  Of couse I've never really been in the positiion of rejecting someone romantically,  but it's not something I would do unless their behaviour were becoming extreme or disturbing.

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I'm not talking about just romantically.  I don't see why it would be any different for someone to do it to a person they were dating or a person that they were friends with. 
Even with someone online, for that matter.  If you do things with someone or talk to them a good bit, it would still sting to be ignored/abandoned.

 

[ardour]

I'm not talking about just romantically.  I don't see why it would be any different for someone to do it to a person they were dating or a person that they were friends with. 
Even with someone online, for that matter.  If you do things with someone or talk to them a good bit, it would still sting to be ignored/abandoned.

Well then I've never really done it in either case.

 

[kamya]

So in return, you don't owe anyone else honeysuckle. People dont give a fresia about you, dont bother giving a fresia about them.

I'm not sure if this is partly what you mean, but 'turning the tables' by ingoring someone who's ignored you only works if you still have something they want.  It's clear she no longer wants anything from him. All he can do is save face.

Sorry I didn't make it clear. This isnt about the specific person ignoring you. Its about anyone in the future that tries to manipulate you or guilt you into feeling a certain way or doing things that you don't want to do. Do what you want. If it bothers other people or hurts their feelings, oh well. If you are solely responsible for your feelings because of the way others act, others can be responsible for their feelings because of the way you act.

I should also clarify that I'm just applying the logic that others have used in a different way to make a point about how ridiculous it is. Basically, you can treat people however you want and do whatever you feel like and if anyone is ever upset or hurt by any of it then its their problem. You did nothing wrong because they have the ability to simply choose to be happy and not let it bother them. So go ahead. Be selfish. Treat people like honeysuckle. You aren't responsible for making others feel bad. You have no reason to feel guilty ever. A very convenient philosophy if you happen to be a shitty person but dont want to feel bad about it.

It's time to drain the honeysuckle swamp and get rid of the shitapologists Randy.

 

[ardour]

I should also clarify that I'm just applying the logic that others have used in a different way to make a point about how ridiculous it is. Basically, you can treat people however you want and do whatever you feel like and if anyone is ever upset or hurt by any of it then its their problem. You did nothing wrong because they have the ability to simply choose to be happy and not let it bother them. So go ahead. Be selfish. Treat people like honeysuckle. You aren't reaponsible for making others feel bad. You have no reason to feel guilty ever. A very convenient philosophy if you happen to be a shitty person but dont want to feel bad about it.

Yeah I agree. It's a convenient rationale that can be used to deflect blame with just about anything (aside from criminal actions that violate human rights, obviously). People could excuse lying or cheating on their SO that way. No-one is entitled to expect anything from anyone, no universal standards on how to treat others, morality only a matter of people processing their own emotions so that it's "their problem". Nice. Great for society.

Of course we aren't talking about anything nearly as serious as that. As said I don't think the OP is necessarily being presumptious or entitled though in expecting a straight response.

 

[kamya]

Yup exactly

In my experience people will use this style of argument to try to minimize your bad feelings or pain caused by their actions. Anything to minimize their share of any blame or accountability for whatever the situation that is being argued about is. At the same time they will also blame you for any negative feelings or emotions you've caused them and any collateral damage from those feelings. Its a pretty annoying double standard. Took me a while to learn to see it at first but its a very common pattern for certain kinds of folks.

 

[EveWasFramed]

OP isn't owed it, but it is inconsiderate, particularly if things were looking like they were progressing well.

This is my opinion also. Admittedly, it's often difficult for some to reject people, even if politely. It makes people uncomfortable at times, so they just ignore instead. 
I've politely said no thanks on several occasions. On some of those occasions, my politeness got me called bad names. Maybe that's why people are often skittish about it - they're afraid of what the other person will say/do.

 

[TheRealCallie]

I should also clarify that I'm just applying the logic that others have used in a different way to make a point about how ridiculous it is. Basically, you can treat people however you want and do whatever you feel like and if anyone is ever upset or hurt by any of it then its their problem. You did nothing wrong because they have the ability to simply choose to be happy and not let it bother them. So go ahead. Be selfish. Treat people like honeysuckle. You aren't reaponsible for making others feel bad. You have no reason to feel guilty ever. A very convenient philosophy if you happen to be a shitty person but dont want to feel bad about it.

Yeah I agree. It's a convenient rationale that can be used to deflect blame with just about anything (aside from criminal actions that violate human rights, obviously). People could excuse lying or cheating on their SO that way. No-one is entitled to expect anything from anyone, no universal standards on how to treat others, morality only a matter of people processing their own emotions so that it's "their problem". Nice. Great for society.

Of course we aren't talking about anything nearly as serious as that.  As said I don't think the OP is necessarily being presumptious or entitled though in expected a straight response since the date apparently went well.

Except when you enter in your own moral code of conduct.   I think both of you are completely missing my point. 

As I said, and eye for an eye isn't a good plan.  Two wrongs don't make a right.  If you are a polite, well mannered, respectful person, you should continue being that person, regardless of what other people do or don't do.  You are responsible for you own thoughts and actions, just like everyone else is responsible for their own individual thoughts and actions.  

I think both of you are completely missing my point.

 

[kamya]

I think you are the one completely missing my point

All of it was to point out why the logic you and nilla always apply to these situations doesn't really hold up. I'm not saying you should actually be an ******* back, but that if you did become an *******, its ok. Never feel bad for anything. You aren't hurting anyone. They are simply allowing themselves to feel hurt. 

Any type of behavior is ok and shouldnt be judged or looked down on as long as it doesn't break any laws. Anyone that feels any other way about anything you do... well thats their own problem to deal with. It doesn't say anything bad about you and people like you.

Traditionally, a polite or decent person with manners would treat others with respect and not ghost someone. If you do ghost someone, you should expect to be seen as disrespectful.

If a lot of people seem to be acting this way. Then it means that there are a lot of people without (traditional) common decency or respect for others.

Is this a problem? Does a polite society function better? I dunno. But it makes a lot more sense to talk about that than to try to instantly tell people they should be ok with being treated poorly and that if they feel bad then its their own fault for expecting anything different.