Inherent Value

[raimey]

I went to see my therapist on Thursday and I walked outta there with this big homework assignment. Just journaling, really, but it's a big meaty topic:

Do people have inherent value?
If so, where does it come from?
What makes people valueable to me?
What is my inherent value?

So many thoughts. So much confussion. Any input would help me to thoroughly process this. Input?

 

[A new life]

Obviously you value the opinions of your fellow lonely-lifers. That's a start.

 

[raimey]

Obviously you value the opinions of your fellow lonely-lifers. That's a start.

Yes I do value your opinion. lol Care to share one? :rolleyes2:

Maybe you need more info.

I do believe that people have inherent value. I believe that people should all be treated with the same respect as any other human being.

What I'm having trouble pin-pointing is what value I place in people and why. I'm afraid that looking into this is going show me exactly how selfish I am.

So what I'm looking for from you guys is some ideas as to what value YOU put in people and why. Maybe agreeing or disagreeing with your opinions will help me to know where I stand.

 

[Naleena]

The answers one gives to these questions tell you more about the person than the questions. To me, yes, everyone and every living thing has inherent value.

We are all part of the web of life. We all belong to the earth and we all bring with us gifts..talents..whatever you want to call it.

There is a quote I like that I will share. I hope it speaks to you as it did to me.

"We are cosmically insignificant, a speck in space and a blink in time, inconceivably unimportant—except to each other, to whom we should therefore be unspeakably precious” - Dale McGowan

I hope you take advantage of the full moon tonight. Out in nature is where I like to do my thinking. You might be surprised what comes to you.

 

[raimey]

The answers one gives to these questions tell you more about the person than the questions. To me, yes, everyone and every living thing has inherent value.

We are all part of the web of life. We all belong to the earth and we all bring with us gifts..talents..whatever you want to call it.

There is a quote I like that I will share. I hope it speaks to you as it did to me.

"We are cosmically insignificant, a speck in space and a blink in time, inconceivably unimportant—except to each other, to whom we should therefore be unspeakably precious” - Dale McGowan

I hope you take advantage of the full moon tonight. Out in nature is where I like to do my thinking. You might be surprised what comes to you.

Thanks for the quote and the input!

 

[A new life]

Obviously you value the opinions of your fellow lonely-lifers. That's a start.

Yes I do value your opinion. lol Care to share one? :rolleyes2:

Maybe you need more info.

I do believe that people have inherent value. I believe that people should all be treated with the same respect as any other human being.

What I'm having trouble pin-pointing is what value I place in people and why. I'm afraid that looking into this is going show me exactly how selfish I am.

So what I'm looking for from you guys is some ideas as to what value YOU put in people and why. Maybe agreeing or disagreeing with your opinions will help me to know where I stand.

Picture yourself as the last living person on Earth.
What would you miss, with nobody else around?
Wouldn't that show you where the value is?

 

[raimey]

Obviously you value the opinions of your fellow lonely-lifers. That's a start.

Yes I do value your opinion. lol Care to share one? :rolleyes2:

Maybe you need more info.

I do believe that people have inherent value. I believe that people should all be treated with the same respect as any other human being.

What I'm having trouble pin-pointing is what value I place in people and why. I'm afraid that looking into this is going show me exactly how selfish I am.

So what I'm looking for from you guys is some ideas as to what value YOU put in people and why. Maybe agreeing or disagreeing with your opinions will help me to know where I stand.

Picture yourself as the last living person on Earth.
What would you miss, with nobody else around?
Wouldn't that show you where the value is?

Maybe. What would you miss?

 

[Badjedidude]

I don't necessarily believe in the inherent value of life. I believe that everyone has a right to TRY to be worth something... but if you continually show that you're not trying...

Everyone has to ******* earn their place on this earth; do the best that they can to add to society and humanity. If you're not doing this, then you either need a swift kick in the rear or you need to be eliminated.

 

[A new life]

I went to see my therapist on Thursday and I walked outta there with this big homework assignment. Just journaling, really, but it's a big meaty topic:

Do people have inherent value?
If so, where does it come from?
What makes people valueable to me?
What is my inherent value?

So many thoughts. So much confussion. Any input would help me to thoroughly process this. Input?

By the way,
I've always thought it was ironic that
"Therapist" is actually The Rapist
(words can be funny)

 

[fortasse]

What I'm having trouble pin-pointing is what value I place in people and why. I'm afraid that looking into this is going show me exactly how selfish I am.

We live in a utilitarian society where value is measured by the amount of pleasure things/people can give to you. It's not your fault if you happen to be selfish.

So what I'm looking for from you guys is some ideas as to what value YOU put in people and why. Maybe agreeing or disagreeing with your opinions will help me to know where I stand.

I think there are three ways a person's value can be measured. 1)It can be measured inherently, 2)it can be measured according to how the person affects you, and 3)it can be measured based on how the person interacts with society.

1) A person may inherently be valuable in the sense that they have value simply by virtue of existing.

To me, this inherent value comes from the fact that every creation of God's is valuable simply by virtue of it having been created by God. Seeing as how not everyone believes in God, or cares for God, this sort of measurement is not applicable to generalized standards of value. But to me, I don't see humans as having inherent value if there is no religious reason for them to have value. Without God, I would be inclined to view humans as nothing more than pieces of flesh created in order to make my life easier. As is, I do not view them as such. I view them as pieces of flesh created by God for some specific purpose, and so I will value them as special creatures put on this earth for the glory of God.

2) I would refer to Aristotle's idea of friendship to measure the value of people in relationship to oneself. Aristotle outlines 3 types of friendships (pleasure, use, and true friendship). To expand on his ideas of friendship, I would say a person is valuable to me personally insofar as they can benefit me. I will befriend a person for pleasurable reasons (perhaps so we can go shopping together, watch movies together, etc), for useful reasons (such as a coworker, or a professor), and then there are people I befriend because we have similar standards of virtue, and we are friends in order to better one another. The value of these people is measured by how much pleasure they can bring me, how useful they can be, or how virtuous they are. ...yes, these measures of friendship were outlined in Aristotle's Nichomachean Ethics.

3) If a person benefits society, they are of more value than a person that does not benefit society at all or benefits society less. This is a completely utilitarian standard. By this standard, a doctor has more value than a comatose human.

Granted, this does not mean I would care more for a doctor than I would a comatose human. I simply acknowledge that the doctor can do more for society than the comatose human, and so he has more value.

If one wants to base value on emotions, this standard could very well be reversed, and the comatose human might have more value than the doctor if the comatose human happens to be my sister and the doctor happens to be a man I strongly dislike.

Value is a rather relative term.

 

[SophiaGrace]

Do people have inherent value?

yes, all life is precious, even if that person is a murderer or rapist

If so, where does it come from?

It comes from respecting others. IT creates a cohesiveness throughout society by empathizing with others. A lack of this would be destruction and a more unstable society. Diversity means a higher likelihood of surival for the species. Plus, it'd be a much more violent world if we didn't have this value. People would die left and right, grief would ensue. What is a world without empathy? Without love? A bunch of snarling beasts. =l


What makes people valueable to me?

Their opinions, their ideas, the fact that I cant be smart in everything means someone else has to be smart in what I'm not smart in. So that's valuable to me. THey give me someone else to talk to and feel connected to. They make me feel not Alone. They show me who i could be (both the bad and good people) and who I have been and who I am now.

What is my inherent value?

I fit into the human network. I might not ever be famous or rich, but, I am a cog in the machine called life.

 

[Kenny]

People have inherent value.

That value is called a soul.

 

[fortasse]

People have inherent value.

That value is called a soul.

Wow... that's so obvious that I never even thought to consider that.

Very true. This makes more sense (and is definitely more succinct) than the jumbled thoughts that were going on in my head on the issue.

 

[Kenny]

People have inherent value.

That value is called a soul.

Wow... that's so obvious that I never even thought to consider that.

Very true. This makes more sense (and is definitely more succinct) than the jumbled thoughts that were going on in my head on the issue.

If A = B,

and B = C,

then A = C

LOL

 

[Elgin]

I don't necessarily believe in the inherent value of life. I believe that everyone has a right to TRY to be worth something... but if you continually show that you're not trying...

Everyone has to ******* earn their place on this earth; do the best that they can to add to society and humanity. If you're not doing this, then you either need a swift kick in the rear or you need to be eliminated.

I agree with this. Just because a person is breathing, doesn't give them a pass on what they do. It doesn't give them any value either. What we do or don't do creates value, not just because we were born. People have to earn it. A serial killer or rapist has no value in society.

 

[SophiaGrace]

I don't necessarily believe in the inherent value of life. I believe that everyone has a right to TRY to be worth something... but if you continually show that you're not trying...

Everyone has to ******* earn their place on this earth; do the best that they can to add to society and humanity. If you're not doing this, then you either need a swift kick in the rear or you need to be eliminated.

I agree with this. Just because a person is breathing, doesn't give them a pass on what they do. It doesn't give them any value either. What we do or don't do creates value, not just because we were born. People have to earn it. A serial killer or rapist has no value in society.

Hm, who among us has not considered killing someone? Murderers are just those thoughts carried into actions. Can't you see yourself in them, at least to some extent?

Rapists admittedly I don't understand as much, but I think they show one way our desire to have power and control can manifest. So, to that extent, I can understand that since I want to control situations in which I feel vulnerable and have experienced the ego-rush of power before (which makes me wary if I should ever have it again), however, I can't understand willfully causing pain & harm to another and then ENJOYING it. I think that would be termed sadism.

Now I'm wondering if I could enjoy hurting those I hate. Could I then justify my actions by saying "That person is a _______ they deserved it." & thus dehumanizing them to assuage any guilt I might have?

=l Hm.

That being said, if everyone thought as I did on this subject, I fear it would lead to condoning these sorts of actions. Which is bad, because the more we condone things that harm others (like rape and murder), the more likely that the potential for badness inside of us will be fulfilled rather than just remaining thoughts. We need something to keep that part of us in check, so perhaps, condemnatory opinions towards these actions is a good, rather than bad, thing.

---

That value is called a soul.

I considered saying that life is sacred, but then I found myself asking what the meaning of sacredness is (to set aside,) and then I asked myself why it was set aside...

So that's how I got my answer.

 

[Kenny]

I think that's a fairly good definition, Sophia, that you came up with. Sacredness.

When you "set something aside", you are usually holding it in reverence and protecting it from use and abuse. Think of a precious vase that you would "set aside" up on a mantle or shelf away from all danger and harm. You would clean it and make sure no one touched it.

"Set aside" works for me.

 

[Elgin]

I don't necessarily believe in the inherent value of life. I believe that everyone has a right to TRY to be worth something... but if you continually show that you're not trying...

Everyone has to ******* earn their place on this earth; do the best that they can to add to society and humanity. If you're not doing this, then you either need a swift kick in the rear or you need to be eliminated.

I agree with this. Just because a person is breathing, doesn't give them a pass on what they do. It doesn't give them any value either. What we do or don't do creates value, not just because we were born. People have to earn it. A serial killer or rapist has no value in society.

Hm, who among us has not considered killing someone? Murderers are just those thoughts carried into actions. Can't you see yourself in them, at least to some extent?

Rapists admittedly I don't understand as much, but I think they show one way our desire to have power and control can manifest. So, to that extent, I can understand that since I want to control situations in which I feel vulnerable and have experienced the ego-rush of power before (which makes me wary if I should ever have it again), however, I can't understand willfully causing pain & harm to another and then ENJOYING it. I think that would be termed sadism.

Now I'm wondering if I could enjoy hurting those I hate. Could I then justify my actions by saying "That person is a _______ they deserved it." & thus dehumanizing them to assuage any guilt I might have?

=l Hm.

That being said, if everyone thought as I did on this subject, I fear it would lead to condoning these sorts of actions. Which is bad, because the more we condone things that harm others (like rape and murder), the more likely that the potential for badness inside of us will be fulfilled rather than just remaining thoughts. We need something to keep that part of us in check, so perhaps, condemnatory opinions towards these actions is a good, rather than bad, thing.

---

That value is called a soul.

I considered saying that life is sacred, but then I found myself asking what the meaning of sacredness is (to set aside,) and then I asked myself why it was set aside...

So that's how I got my answer.

---

I respect you for having your opinion but I got a whole different side on this. I don't deal with all the lofty psycho thinking. It's good in its place but it doesn't deal with the cold facts.
A 8 year old girl was beaten, raped and killed, in my home town, by a dude who ass kissed his way out of a prison by being a good boy. He was there for raping a teenager 7 years before.
He got caught again and he's back in prison eating nice food and sleeping in a warm bed all on MY dollar as a tax payer. I got to work 2 jobs to keep a roof over my head and food in my belly and a car running and he gets to sit around on the internet jerking off to more pics of kids.
Now, there ain't no friggin way you'll convince me he is sacred or his life is. The world would be better if they loaded his veins up with poison and took him out. That little girl WAS sacred. 8 year olds don't have enough time to do anything to remove that sacredness.
The rapest/murder even has internet gf's I wouldn't mind seeing them get a hit of the same lethal injection they ought to poke into him either.
A lot of lives are sacred but if you take one of them or do what he did then the sacred honeysuckle gets all lost behind the crime.
I support the death penalty for these bastards and I think the stupid whores that follow them around and love them need a swift kick in the ass to..
He was caught red handed with that little girls blood on his hands too. He owned up to it in the end and the women who talk to him in prison know this.
There is nothing sacred in him or those women.

 

[SophiaGrace]

A 8 year old girl was beaten, raped and killed, in my home town, by a dude who ass kissed his way out of a prison by being a good boy. He was there for raping a teenager 7 years before.
He got caught again and he's back in prison eating nice food and sleeping in a warm bed all on MY dollar as a tax payer. I got to work 2 jobs to keep a roof over my head and food in my belly and a car running and he gets to sit around on the internet jerking off to more pics of kids.
Now, there ain't no friggin way you'll convince me he is sacred or his life is. The world would be better if they loaded his veins up with poison and took him out. That little girl WAS sacred. 8 year olds don't have enough time to do anything to remove that sacredness.
The rapest/murder even has internet gf's I wouldn't mind seeing them get a hit of the same lethal injection they ought to poke into him either.
A lot of lives are sacred but if you take one of them or do what he did then the sacred honeysuckle gets all lost behind the crime.
I support the death penalty for these bastards and I think the stupid whores that follow them around and love them need a swift kick in the ass to..
He was caught red handed with that little girls blood on his hands too. He owned up to it in the end and the women who talk to him in prison know this.
There is nothing sacred in him or those women.

This example is great. However, I want to point out that it violates two morals instead of 1 (rape), which is what I was addressing.

The two morals are:

1) Rape
2) Exploitation/harm of a child

That being said, I STILL think this guy's life is sacred, just, that he should be locked away forever with no chance whatsoever of getting out and harming another innocent child.

 

[Kenny]

Although life is sacred, I believe there are certain things one can do that effectively forfeits one's life.

Who's life is more sacred?

The ten children that will be saved if monsters like that are scared they will be injected with poison when caught? Or the monster himself?

It's definitely a gray area.

The case of Jessica Lunsford was my turning point where I knew I supported the death penalty for child killers.

The only problem I have with capital punishment is that it presumes our judicial system is perfect and never makes a mistake. I would rather see 1000 child killers go free than see 1 innocent man wrongfully killed for a crime he didn't commit.

I support legislation where the standard for death penalty is "cases of absolute moral certainty".