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DarkSelene
Guest
Is your argument that anyone who hasn't been through those things can't be vulnerable/insecure?
Questions for the Women
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ardour
Well known loser
It's not that they're less capable of it. it's that women generally don't find having that kind of power over a male partner very appealing and having high self-esteem/confidence means being better able to control how much weakness is shown. Men are in a position where they need to convey that they're entirely content regardless of whether someone is in their lives or not. This isn't some stupid bad boy stereotype like Skafish's keeps going on about, but high self-esteem and confidence obviously help. Women on the other hand have the option of getting attached to a man early on without fear of him recoiling and losing interest.
So when someone says something like "I want a confident man to compensate for my insecurities", it's about more than just complimenting characteristics. (Not a personal attack on you btw, I get why someone would be drawn to those qualities.)
So when someone says something like "I want a confident man to compensate for my insecurities", it's about more than just complimenting characteristics. (Not a personal attack on you btw, I get why someone would be drawn to those qualities.)
TheRealCallie
Princess Pink Love
This whole "men have it worse" and "you couldn't possibly understand" crap is really getting annoying. Plain and simple, if you have no self confidence or self esteem, if you don't go out, if you've given up, if you blame everyone else, etc etc, you will very likely get NOWHERE. It doesn't have anything to do with whether you are a man or woman. It doesn't have anything to do with how many people you have dated or messed. It has to do with YOU. Who you are, how you present yourself, what you think about yourself.....the theme here being YOU, not someone else, not society, not them or her or him or the aliens that didn't abduct you.
So stop with the "women have it easier," "Men this or that," "Society blah blah blah" Worry about yourself, not whatever the fresia else you seem to want to obsess over.
So stop with the "women have it easier," "Men this or that," "Society blah blah blah" Worry about yourself, not whatever the fresia else you seem to want to obsess over.
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DarkSelene
Guest
ardour said:
OK, maybe we went out of topic but I'll reply the same way.
They don't need to convey that they're entirely content, that's just not true. They do need to convey confidence, which means they need to seem like they can handle what life throws at them.
They don't need to pretend to have high self esteem, because that rubs off completely any time you get to know someone, and not in any deep level, it's very easy to see.
Women love to have that much power over a male partner! Yes, they might fresia a bunch of dudes that don't give a fresia about them, but most often than not they won't marry those.
Yes, you're absolutely right about the part where women don't have to show that, we've established that before.
Yes, it is about more. Men and women expect different things from each other in general, specifically that changes even more. Yes, I'll never present myself to the world with confidence, probably, and that man might have to guide through some honeysuckle because I'll be lost but I'll guide him too when he needs, and if he's patient with my bullshit, I'll be 100x more with anything he needs because I know what I'm selling when I'm trying to be with someone and it's not a lot.
Yes, I might need confident people around me to ground me a bit, but maybe those people need someone around to care for them enough so that life doesn't crush them, for instance. Or so that loneliness doesn't crush them. Maybe they just need someone who looks at them with complete admiration and shows them that, that says a lot about their self esteem too...
So yeah, when it's in regards to first attraction? Sure, everything sounds more superficial because it is, no one has developed feelings yet. To say that they can't develop real ones? No, that's wrong. To say that it takes 15 years? Or that if it's not a 50/50 exchange it can't be good for both? Also, not even close.
To be honest, I think this conversation says a lot more about you than I'm babbling on about myself, and I'm almost certain that's not what you want.
ardour
Well known loser
DarkSelene said:
That can be a huge burden to put on someone. (Unless you just mean they deal with adversity like an adult, then it's not about gender.) I don't buy the silly binary alpha/beta trope but most of the successful, long term relationships I've witnessed involved men who don't allow themselves to show much emotional investment.
Women find many different things attractive about men, but only a few of those things make them want to have sex with them. Meaning they separate the men in categories that dont fill every aspect they need. They want contradictory things and blame men when they question this.
Oh for the love of...please knock off the gender stereotyping and stop blaming the opposite sex. Stop picking on things you choose to see and ignoring what contradicts your views.
All I see here are a bunch of guys blaming women for their problems. It's NOT them.
All I see here are a bunch of guys blaming women for their problems. It's NOT them.
TheRealCallie
Princess Pink Love
Why do you ask women anything if you don't plan to listen to anything they say? If you want to believe what you want and what other men believe, ask in the men thread. I really see no point in the majority of these questions, since you have no desire to actually hear what we are saying. You just want to argue.
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DarkSelene
Guest
ardour said:
I mean they deal with adversity, yes. I don't buy those either, and I believe you can't see emotional investment there because you're not in the relationship.
MisterLonely
Well-known member
Sci-Fi said:
I'd have to say I agree, women are allowed to want whatever they want, I'm pretty sure most guys here could get a girl without too much trouble and searching, but they want someone "special", and not just anyone to fill the void, which I find totally understandable!
But women want the same, you can't expect to want someone that has a lot to offer without bringing much of anything to the table, sure you might find it, but chances are high you won't. Look to yourselves first, if you have a lot of selective criteria when it comes to a potential partner, also look at what you have to offer someone like that yourself.
ardour
Well known loser
MisterLonely said:
Skafish seems to want someone "remarkable". Rest of us are average, if socially awkward (and probably unatttractive) guys with realistic standards, so the comment about 'getting a girl' with no trouble is plain wrong.
TheRealCallie
Princess Pink Love
ardour said:
Yes, you might be "average," but you are also negative as fresia and pass the blame....
TheRealCallie
Princess Pink Love
Or maybe the problem is that you speak too **** much for a gender you are not....Worry about your own priorities and stop generalizing.
user 139760
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Xpendable said:
AH!
Well see, that's what I think the real issue is.
PEOPLE, in general, are shitty.
I mean, I see a lot of blame passed all the time from women to men, men to women, but to be quite honest, it's neither, and both; people themselves are pritty shitty. A buttload of them have, as X says, messed priorities.
But I don't think it's gender exclusive, but INCLUSIVE.
Small example, women's lib was great in teh 40's, it helped women vote, have equal pay and rights, etc. For a long time, if you read old 60's newspaper articles, proponents of women's lib were saying that the entry of women into business, specifically high positions of power, would, mark my words, REVOLUTIONIZE industries, because they thought radically different.
Didn't happen.
In fact, what do most women do once they get to that level of political, or financial, or whatever kind of power? They do the exact same thing as men, more often than not; they use it for personal gain and advancement and try to squish anyone under them to protect their interests. Save of course, notable exception of remarkable women who have revolutionized their respective fields, but like the men who have done the same, it's a count on on hand kind of list.
That being said, the debate on gender has always been rather funny (in a not haha way), because I think it's preposterous. Claiming one sex is better, or fundamentally different than the other (other than biologically) is rather preposterous. People, in general, are douchebags.
It's the non-douchebags you have to look for. And if they aren't a 12 on the 10-scale Babeliscious Meter, who cares; they're hard to find, because they're not ********.
But hey, some people want to find the drop dead 14/10 babe that'll just as soon tear a hole in their wallets or sleep with half the football team behind their backs, their choice. I personally wouldn't bother with someone so lame.
So yeah, people are lame. I think that's where the real issue is. And we got proud representatives of that on both sides of the scale (Hell, you even elected one ;-) )
user 139760
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Xpendable said:
Well, I don't QUITE agree with that.
I can be an ass, but I personally, respectfully believe I'm not, at least entirely, a *********. I know you're not a *********. I can name a coupleof others, men or women on this site, that are not douchebags.
While agree an important chunk of non douchebags ARE taken or married to douchebags (and of course, as non-douchebags, they are trying to help their husbands or wives at becoming non-douchebags, probably with mixed success because those are douchebags to begin with), I still like to retain hope there are some out there. Finding them is hard though and as your age advances, it probably doesn't help much.
But, you know, as Moneypenny once said; "Hope...the spring's eternal". I think losing faith in front of lack of success or adversity is ultimately more damaging than making an actual mistake in a relationship.
