Questions for the Women

[VanillaCreme]

It's not about being desirable. If someone doesn't want one's attention, that person should leave them alone. It's crazy to me that some people don't know when to back off, especially when someone makes it clear that the attention is unwanted and unwarranted.

 

[TheSkaFish]

It's not about being desirable. If someone doesn't want one's attention, that person should leave them alone. It's crazy to me that some people don't know when to back off, especially when someone makes it clear that the attention is unwanted and unwarranted.

They shouldn't have talked to them in the first place then.  I don't understand why some people talk to others just to kill time.

 

[TheRealCallie]

It's not about being desirable. If someone doesn't want one's attention, that person should leave them alone. It's crazy to me that some people don't know when to back off, especially when someone makes it clear that the attention is unwanted and unwarranted.

They shouldn't have talked to them in the first place then.  I don't understand why some people talk to others just to kill time.

So you can ONLY talk to people you find desirable?  WTF, dude?
They met on a GAME, there was NO reason to take it where he did....I'm not sure why you aren't understanding that. You're probably too busy thinking about how all the "cool" "badass" guys get everything and you don't again.

 

[VanillaCreme]

It's not about being desirable. If someone doesn't want one's attention, that person should leave them alone. It's crazy to me that some people don't know when to back off, especially when someone makes it clear that the attention is unwanted and unwarranted.

They shouldn't have talked to them in the first place then.  I don't understand why some people talk to others just to kill time.

So someone talking to someone gives that person the right to be pushy about getting attention?

 

[DarkSelene]

  I don't understand why some people talk to others just to kill time.

Yeah, I have to agree with the posts above, this is an insane statement.
Regarding what was told before, I think it requires more information. Lots of lonely people end up falling incredibly fast, but there's usually some reason for it. If someone already seemed to think that because you talk to them, they're dating you, you know what sort of person you're dealing with and how to manage that situation so it doesn't get out of hand.
Also, the point you made about that person being more desirable that type of behavior would be more acceptable, you're absolutely right. It could still be weird, end in the same way it did this time, but it'd sure be seen as less of a nuisance.

 

[TheSkaFish]

So you can ONLY talk to people you find desirable?  WTF, dude?
They met on a GAME, there was NO reason to take it where he did....I'm not sure why you aren't understanding that.

So someone talking to someone gives that person the right to be pushy about getting attention?

No and no. But again, when I talk to people I don't have a plan for all they will ever be to me, ahead of time.

 

[TheRealCallie]

So you can ONLY talk to people you find desirable?  WTF, dude?
They met on a GAME, there was NO reason to take it where he did....I'm not sure why you aren't understanding that.

So someone talking to someone gives that person the right to be pushy about getting attention?

No and no.  But again, when I talk to people I don't have a plan for all they will ever be to me, ahead of time.

Did it ever occur to you that some people simply do NOT want to date....ANYONE, not just the "loser nerds" as you like to call them, but ANYBODY. 
Also, stop trying to make the situation something you can ***** and whine about, because I'm pretty **** sure you have it COMPLETELY wrong.

 

[TheSkaFish]

If someone already seemed to think that because you talk to them, they're dating you

No, but at the same time, you can't date people you can't talk to, so if you can at least talk to them it makes you think that maybe there's something you can do. I don't know. It's hard to say exactly how things are but I've seen enough things to know that there are right and wrong personalities. For some people, it's not a numbers game, it's not random.

I wish I could take control of what I get, like both the legitimately successful guys and ******** do. I want what I get to be by design, I hate feeling like it's random and that I'm just going to get a choice of whatever life leaves for me, or nothing, with nothing seeming more likely all the time. But I don't know. It doesn't seem to matter much what I do, how I do it, nothing. It just gets really bleak.

Also, the point you made about that person being more desirable that type of behavior would be more acceptable, you're absolutely right. It could still be weird, end in the same way it did this time, but it'd sure be seen as less of a nuisance.

Yep, the hotter you are, the bigger the margin for error you have. You can make more mistakes, you can be dumber, and you have more room to just be an awful person if that is your thing. It's always refreshing to hear someone be honest about this, that not everything is the fault of the individual, and that yes, the system sucks.

---

Also, stop trying to make the situation something you can ***** and whine about, because I'm pretty **** sure you have it COMPLETELY wrong.

I really don't see how I have it wrong but OK, I guess. I feel like it's one of those things like income inequality or IQ, where it is very hard to get out of the level you're in. I don't see people getting out of their level very often.

 

[kaetic]

You don't think it's kind of bad that someone - guy or not - becomes attached to someone so quickly? Especially when the other person makes it clear that they aren't on that level?

I don't know.  I think it wouldn't be as much of a problem if this guy was desirable.  If I got a bunch of messages from a girl that I thought was very attractive and interesting, I'd think that was awesome.  I'd think I was finally getting the kind of dumb luck I've seen others get but never seemed to myself, where things just work for me for no reason.  But it always seems that the guys in the situation that kaetic described are undesirable, and I wonder exactly what is wrong with them that makes it so that the other person is almost always not on that level, what causes them to get sorted down into the "not dating material" category.  Some way these guys are, seems to set off this sorting.  Is it something they say, something they do, some way that they come off as too bland, lame, incompetent, or come up short?  And what do you have to do to have things turn out differently, to get a different, better reaction?

It's like I keep thinking, there are rules and patterns.  There is stuff that produces good and bad results, it's not random.  Highly accomplished guys and "cool" guys almost never seem to have this problem, while gamer/"nerdy" guys seem to always smack face-first into this wall.  It's almost always the same, every time.  I feel like there's got to be a reason.

Do you realize exactly how insulting that is to say to some one?
That if the guy was attractive you think I would have been ok with the creepy behavior.
How exactly do you read this,

    "I started talking to this guy outside the game, and suddenly he views it as a dating relationship (even though I made it clear it wasn't) and his whole personality shifted. We chatted online for maybe six weeks and the whole time I was getting weird messages that seemed like he was trying to emotionally manipulate me. Then he started to act possessive, even though we'd never even met, weren't dating, and had chatted for a very short time. I told him I would rather not talk to him anymore and he suggested he was going to kill himself and it would be my fault. I thought it was best I didn't reply to that."

and come up with "if he was attractive it would have been ok"?
I have no clue what that guy looks like. I never got a photo although I gave him one of me, when he asked. I don't know where he works/worked, or any of that other stuff you asked about.

None of that played into it.

At the time I wasn't interested in dating ANYONE. He knew that from the start, and I told him again in the middle of all this because I thought maybe I wasn't clear enough. I was clear... he just didn't care what my feelings were.

I gave him my contact information, because dumb ass me thought I might make a friend.
How might it have gone better... He could have not told me he loved me, used the pity card, and tried to manipulate me into meeting up for sex or family gatherings, which was the one he described as being not just for sex.... especially after I told him how uncomfortable that made me AND the fact that he started doing it within the first week. He could also have not started saying I love you FOR ME... making me have to correct him so that he didn't take it as silent approval. Messaging me at all hours of the day and night, kind of sucked. Those messages generally being along the lines of "Help me" or "Is it ok if I fantasize about you?" (apparently it was important that he let me know he was doing it.)  It also kind of sucked when he would get angry when I wasn't right there to answer his texts... and then when I would tell him that wasn't cool, he would AGAIN say he was just joking around. (apparently it was all in my head) When I told him I wanted him to leave me alone, He said ok but then sent me a message about how he was going to kill himself and it was all my fault. I don't recommend doing that either.

But I'm to blame too... I should not have given out my information... and I should have blocked him when I first suspected what was going on, instead of being an idiot and trying to sympathize with his sob stories. I should have realized quicker that the only reason this guy ever started talking to me was because he figured out my gender and thought "Oh a vagina, maybe I can score."

----

If you want to meet some one Ska... stop trying to analyze all the **** data. Don't come up with a strategy, or a master solution for why everything is the way it is. Just be yourself. Let's say you actually meet a girl who is not turned off by all the pretending. Are you going to pretend for the rest of your life? Or, are you just looking to get laid, like that guy. Please, don't be like that guy.

 

[TheRealCallie]

I really don't see how I have it wrong but OK, I guess.  I feel like it's one of those things like income inequality or IQ, where it is very hard to get out of the level you're in.  I don't see people getting out of their level very often.

and now we're back to that honeysuckle....

Okay, here's your step by step guide...

1.  GET A JOB....any job, doesn't ******* matter one **** bit, JUST GET ONE.
2.  Get off your high horse and stop judging the fresia out of everyone you do not know.
3.  Get your own place to live and stop mooching off of your parents
4.  Stop worrying about what every other person in the world is doing and start worrying about YOURSELF...not what you think others want you to be, but what YOU want you to do.
5.  Give EVERYONE a chance (unless of course they are creepy ******** like kaetic encountered), not just the brainy blonde bimbos you seem to want.  I also don't understand how someone who seems so shallow can whine so much about not being given a chance because you think you are a "loser nerd" when you won't give the same type of people a chance.....does that not seem hypocritical to you?
6.  Seriously, forget just about everything you think you know about dating and girls and just open your eyes.
7.  The levels only exist in your head and the heads of shallow ass people you don't want to know anyway, so just stop with that.

 

[VanillaCreme]

Ska, you are seriously lost. And what you believe in and follow clearly isn't working for you, yet you continue to think with ideas that are absolutely absurd. It's like you refuse for anyone to be human, and if they don't fit in your little crook, someone isn't worth the air on the planet. It's crazy how you think.

 

[kamya]

You don't think it's kind of bad that someone - guy or not - becomes attached to someone so quickly? Especially when the other person makes it clear that they aren't on that level?

I don't know.  I think it wouldn't be as much of a problem if this guy was desirable.  If I got a bunch of messages from a girl that I thought was very attractive and interesting, I'd think that was awesome.  I'd think I was finally getting the kind of dumb luck I've seen others get but never seemed to myself, where things just work for me for no reason.  But it always seems that the guys in the situation that kaetic described are undesirable, and I wonder exactly what is wrong with them that makes it so that the other person is almost always not on that level, what causes them to get sorted down into the "not dating material" category.  Some way these guys are, seems to set off this sorting.  Is it something they say, something they do, some way that they come off as too bland, lame, incompetent, or come up short?  And what do you have to do to have things turn out differently, to get a different, better reaction?

It's like I keep thinking, there are rules and patterns.  There is stuff that produces good and bad results, it's not random.  Highly accomplished guys and "cool" guys almost never seem to have this problem, while gamer/"nerdy" guys seem to always smack face-first into this wall.  It's almost always the same, every time.  I feel like there's got to be a reason.

Do you realize exactly how insulting that is to say to some one?
That if the guy was attractive you think I would have been ok with the creepy behavior.
How exactly do you read this,

    "I started talking to this guy outside the game, and suddenly he views it as a dating relationship (even though I made it clear it wasn't) and his whole personality shifted. We chatted online for maybe six weeks and the whole time I was getting weird messages that seemed like he was trying to emotionally manipulate me. Then he started to act possessive, even though we'd never even met, weren't dating, and had chatted for a very short time. I told him I would rather not talk to him anymore and he suggested he was going to kill himself and it would be my fault. I thought it was best I didn't reply to that."

and come up with "if he was attractive it would have been ok"?
I have no clue what that guy looks like. I never got a photo although I gave him one of me, when he asked. I don't know where he works/worked, or any of that other stuff  you asked about.

None of that played into it.

At the time I wasn't interested in dating ANYONE. He knew that from the start, and I told him again in the middle of all this because I thought maybe I wasn't clear enough. I was clear... he just didn't care what my feelings were.

I gave him my contact information, because dumb ass me thought I might make a friend.
How might it have gone better... He could have not told me he loved me, used the pity card, and tried to manipulate me into meeting up for sex or family gatherings, which was the one he described as being not just for sex.... especially after I told him how uncomfortable that made me AND the fact that he started doing it within the first week. He could also have not started saying I love you FOR ME... making me have to correct him so that he didn't take it as silent approval. Messaging me at all hours of the day and night, kind of sucked. Those messages generally being along the lines of "Help me" or "Is it ok if I fantasize about you?" (apparently it was important that he let me know he was doing it.)  It also kind of sucked when he would get angry when I wasn't right there to answer his texts... and then when I would tell him that wasn't cool, he would AGAIN say he was just joking around. (apparently it was all in my head) When I told him I wanted him to leave me alone, He said ok but then sent me a message about how he was going to kill himself and it was all my fault. I don't recommend doing that either.

But I'm to blame too... I should not have given out my information... and I should have blocked him when I first suspected what was going on, instead of being an idiot and trying to sympathize with his sob stories. I should have realized quicker that the only reason this guy ever started talking to me was because he figured out my gender and thought "Oh a vagina, maybe I can score."

----

If you want to meet some one Ska... stop trying to analyze all the **** data. Don't come up with a strategy, or a master solution for why everything is the way it is. Just be yourself. Let's say you actually meet a girl who is not turned off by all the pretending. Are you going to pretend for the rest of your life? Or, are you just looking to get laid, like that guy. Please, don't be like that guy.

Hmm. So that's a thing that happens.

 

[wallflower79]

kaetic, I am so sorry for what happened to you. It's scary to think that there are guys out there who just consider women as a means to an end, and that they take advantage of the good nature those who give them the benefit of a doubt. I have met my share of creepy ********, but that story just takes the cake. I wish that there was some sort of semblance of justice for these situations, but who knows? You are very strong to have gone through that and I hope that that never happens to you again.

 

[Enpatsu No Shakugan]

You don't think it's kind of bad that someone - guy or not - becomes attached to someone so quickly? Especially when the other person makes it clear that they aren't on that level?

I don't know.  I think it wouldn't be as much of a problem if this guy was desirable.  If I got a bunch of messages from a girl that I thought was very attractive and interesting, I'd think that was awesome.  I'd think I was finally getting the kind of dumb luck I've seen others get but never seemed to myself, where things just work for me for no reason.  But it always seems that the guys in the situation that kaetic described are undesirable, and I wonder exactly what is wrong with them that makes it so that the other person is almost always not on that level, what causes them to get sorted down into the "not dating material" category.  Some way these guys are, seems to set off this sorting.  Is it something they say, something they do, some way that they come off as too bland, lame, incompetent, or come up short?  And what do you have to do to have things turn out differently, to get a different, better reaction?

It's like I keep thinking, there are rules and patterns.  There is stuff that produces good and bad results, it's not random.  Highly accomplished guys and "cool" guys almost never seem to have this problem, while gamer/"nerdy" guys seem to always smack face-first into this wall.  It's almost always the same, every time.  I feel like there's got to be a reason.

Loneliness and/or lack of experience.

I can't say I'm not guilty for getting attached way too quickly for a girl, at least when I was younger too. Though I was never the type to get manipulative or even start threatening like he did.

What guys fail to get, I think, is that women don't just find instant attraction in someone, at least a regular Joe who isn't a famous person. It could happen, but almost never right off.

But since guys do it all the time, naturally we think it must be true for women too. Though the girls I've talked to about this pretty much say they never had a clue he was feeling that way, and were just being nice or friendly, even if they did genuinely like them; it wasn't past that.

Basically men and women speak different languages and we have to learn the signals.

 

[TheSkaFish]

1.  GET A JOB....any job, doesn't ******* matter one **** bit, JUST GET ONE.
- I guess I have to.  But I've even seen doctors struggling to attract anyone.  Most jobs probably won't make me that much more attractive, and the ones that would, I don't have the training, body, background, or personality for.
2.  Get off your high horse and stop judging the fresia out of everyone you do not know.
- I've encountered tons of people with high-horse attitudes that judge others all the time.  But it never stopped them from getting sex/relationships.
3.  Get your own place to live and stop mooching off of your parents
- I can work, but I don't want to live by myself just for the sake of it.
4.  Stop worrying about what every other person in the world is doing and start worrying about YOURSELF...not what you think others want you to be, but what YOU want you to do.
- That's how I've lived most of my life, being interested in stuff I like and not trying to fit in, but it's a big reason why I'm alone.
5.  Give EVERYONE a chance (unless of course they are creepy ******** like kaetic encountered), not just the brainy blonde bimbos you seem to want.  I also don't understand how someone who seems so shallow can whine so much about not being given a chance because you think you are a "loser nerd" when you won't give the same type of people a chance.....does that not seem hypocritical to you?
- Again, a lot of guys don't give everyone chances.  The "cool" guys always go for the hottest women they can get, and like everything else it is never held against them. A lot of guys also actively make fun of women they don't find attractive, but nobody cares.  I'm attracted to people that I feel like I have something to talk about with, who would make me curious about them, and who make me feel like I'm getting out of my place.  I wonder how life is outside of it, I don't want to be a settler.  Just because someone also struggles to attract anyone doesn't mean we will have anything else in common other than our problems.
6.  Seriously, forget just about everything you think you know about dating and girls and just open your eyes.
- I do look around, and the most important thing seems to be the "cool" cocky/funny, snarky, rebellious, aggressive, dominant personality.  These guys are the ones who seem to get to choose instead of having to hope for a "yes" or being forced to choose between settling for whoever, or nothing.  This is something I've seen consistently throughout my entire life and others have said similar things.
7.  The levels only exist in your head and the heads of shallow ass people you don't want to know anyway, so just stop with that.
- I wish that were true but it seems to be almost everyone.  Party girls, more philosophical ones, it doesn't seem to matter.

---

Ska, you are seriously lost. And what you believe in and follow clearly isn't working for you, yet you continue to think with ideas that are absolutely absurd. It's like you refuse for anyone to be human, and if they don't fit in your little crook, someone isn't worth the air on the planet. It's crazy how you think.

The primate social dominance hierarchy is what isn't working for me.  I don't really fit in it, well, nowhere good anyway.  I can't play the game because it's set up for macho men to win and guys like me to lose.  I couldn't be hegemonically masculine if I wanted to.  I don't have the body, personality, or cultural background for it.  Unfortunately for guys like me, that's what's in demand.  That's why I'm not very motivated.  Even if I could escape mediocrity somehow, I'm afraid that it just wouldn't matter because I don't have the aggressive, rebellious, cocky/funny dominant personality, so in women's eyes, any self-improvement I do wouldn't ever be good enough.  I feel like I might as well just stay comfortable instead of beating myself up for nothing.

---

Do you realize exactly how insulting that is to say to some one?
That if the guy was attractive you think I would have been ok with the creepy behavior.

I didn't say it just to be offensive.  I'm speaking from experience.  I've seen women turn a blind eye to lot of bad behavior or just stupid behavior from guys.  All throughout school, I saw girls date guys who were racist, elitist, homophobic, misogynistic, or just obnoxious all the time.  Later, I saw girls date scumbags and scumbag imitators.  It didn't matter, because these guys were muscular and had money and could get booze and weed or had swagger or the "hint of danger".  They were confident I guess, because they'd gone through life being stronger than everyone else and able to sway the crowd to their side.  They probably never met anyone who could oppose them.  Or because they have the "too cool to care" attitude, which is really just not thinking enough to be afraid of anything.

I should have realized quicker that the only reason this guy ever started talking to me was because he figured out my gender and thought "Oh a vagina, maybe I can score."

----

If you want to meet some one Ska... stop trying to analyze all the **** data. Don't come up with a strategy, or a master solution for why everything is the way it is. Just be yourself. Let's say you actually meet a girl who is not turned off by all the pretending. Are you going to pretend for the rest of your life? Or, are you just looking to get laid, like that guy. Please, don't be like that guy.

I've always been looking to get into a relationship with someone that I actually liked talking to or wanted to learn more about, and I've never been the kind of guy who was just trying to get laid.  Honestly I don't see the point, it seems like it would be a lot more work to try to "game" someone into sex with innuendos, teasing, hot/cold, push/pull games and stuff like that which I have no interest in, with someone that I don't even have anything to really talk about with.  But not only has being myself not worked ever, but lots of guys who just want to get laid have succeeded all the time, for years. I'm never what anyone wants, never good enough, no matter if it's for a girl I like, or one that I don't. It doesn't matter.  I'm getting to wit's end thinking about this, cause I've seen guys do all kinds of self-improvement, getting an education, a job, going to the gym, getting a fancy car, traveling, doing all the things you're supposed to do and it just doesn't work.  I'm afraid that's how it would go for me too.

 

[ardour]

Knee-jerk application of ideas and bias to every situation is a sign of someone losing touch with reality, wit's end or not. What would you expect her to do in this situation - give this deluded idiot a chance?

 

[VanillaCreme]

The primate social dominance hierarchy is what isn't working for me.  I don't really fit in it, well, nowhere good anyway.  I can't play the game because it's set up for macho men to win and guys like me to lose.  I couldn't be hegemonically masculine if I wanted to.  I don't have the body, personality, or cultural background for it.  Unfortunately for guys like me, that's what's in demand.  That's why I'm not very motivated.  Even if I could escape mediocrity somehow, I'm afraid that it just wouldn't matter because I don't have the aggressive, rebellious, cocky/funny dominant personality, so in women's eyes, any self-improvement I do wouldn't ever be good enough.  I feel like I might as well just stay comfortable instead of beating myself up for nothing.

No, no. It's the ridiculous ideals. Trust me. Nothing to do with your body or cultural background. Not all women even want macho men. It's your defeatist mentality that - no kiddin' - defeats you. You do it. Don't blame us.

 

[Joturbo]

The primate social dominance hierarchy is what isn't working for me.  I don't really fit in it, well, nowhere good anyway.  I can't play the game because it's set up for macho men to win and guys like me to lose.  I couldn't be hegemonically masculine if I wanted to.  I don't have the body, personality, or cultural background for it.  Unfortunately for guys like me, that's what's in demand.  That's why I'm not very motivated.  Even if I could escape mediocrity somehow, I'm afraid that it just wouldn't matter because I don't have the aggressive, rebellious, cocky/funny dominant personality, so in women's eyes, any self-improvement I do wouldn't ever be good enough.  I feel like I might as well just stay comfortable instead of beating myself up for nothing.

No, no. It's the ridiculous ideals. Trust me. Nothing to do with your body or cultural background. Not all women even want macho men. It's your defeatist mentality that - no kiddin' - defeats you. You do it. Don't blame us.

Totally agree with this.I've never been the macho man even when I was younger I was quiet and reserved but I didn't give up looking for the one .Time to be yourself mate...I do believe there's someone out there for everyone .If you have to tweek your personality a bit so be it but not too much.Try and develop a I don't give a fresia attitude and just work with what God gave you.l learnt to not ramble on about myself when I was younger and become a better listener...seemed to work for me.

 

[TheRealCallie]

Some people only see what they want to see and they refuse to see anything else, even if a honeysuckle ton of people tell them the same **** thing....

 

[user 139760]

I'm not a macho man, but I've always wanted to be THE Macho Man....OH YEEEEAAAHHHHWWWWWWW!
I was rather quiet and reserved when I was a kid, big nerd, fearful of everything. There were events that unfolded that changed me until I fell into "the stereotype" of the brawny macho dude, only that's just what people see at a glance. I am so much NOT that, but it's easier for other people to deal with me if that's what they believe. Back when I used to train a lot, it was a lot easier for everyone to believe I was just that, the typical Alpha who puts on a show for the ladies. What a schocker for the ladies when If I sat them down to watch Star Trek or discussed the finer political points of Socialism ;-)

Just be yourself. If yourself doesn't attack X type of women, so be it. Their loss. Be proud of who you are, because there will only ever be one "you" in the history of Time.