Stop me if you've heard this: I don't know how to talk to girls

[PieBeNice]

Rejection hurts for everyone, but it is a different situation for us because of the way society views males at present and the current emphasis on 'rape culture', coercion, stalking, harassment and so on.

What is 'rape culture'?

Pseudo-sociology.

You're meant to post the images of yourself to the lets see the faces thread, Paul.

 

[Drama]

Rejection hurts for everyone, but it is a different situation for us because of the way society views males at present and the current emphasis on 'rape culture', coercion, stalking, harassment and so on.

What is 'rape culture'?

Pseudo-sociology.

You're meant to post the images of yourself to the lets see the faces thread, Paul.

His face looks pseudo-sociological, rape-cultural.

 

[supernova88]

Hi everyone, when I started this thread I was looking for advice. I did not want people to go back and forth debating and then making fun of rape culture. If that's what you've come here for please stop posting and move on.

 

[ardour]

Well I mentioned it as a factor without intending to start an off-topic debate. The few times I have shown interest, from asking what they were doing after lectures, to making everyday conversation with the intent of getting to know someone, resulted in panic mode. But then a lot of women on campus were progressive politically speaking and that might not be representative. Many seemed to avoid you if you weren't some creatively inclined hipster, as if in their minds there existed the concept of this minority of intelligent, cultured guys, as evidenced by the right clothes, elite arty friend group and interests, who were cool and safe to be around, as opposed to the majority of dangerous males. One of the current cultural conceits... cliques of the right male type, with the rest of the male population are viewed as sadistic half-wits who intend to hurt women at any opportunity (those who think this way get a kick out of it because it lends itself to a superiority complex.) That attitude is around, certainly not from all women, or the vast majority, but it's there and I just happen to have encountered it. Of course in saying this I have to fend of accusations that I'm just bitter and feel "entitled to women's bodies" and so on.

Back on topic...

My advice would be to relax as much as possible and speak to them as if they were men. Get into the zone of not caring, living in the moment without worrying about the outcome. Being outcome dependent is the worst mindset you can have.

 

[Peter.EU]

I'm lucky enough to say I've been in two meaningful relationships in my life, so I know I'm not a hopeless case when it comes to women. The caveat, though, is how I ended up in a relationship. The thing is, I'm not terribly smooth when it comes to asking girls out. The two times I had a girlfriend were both in college, and in those cases me and the girls grew closer over time until we just sort of fell into dating. Now that I am out of college I don't have that same stability of getting to know someone slowly but surely over time, but I have had such little experience and little luck asking someone out on the fly I feel very ill prepared the next time I want to try my luck dating.

I've been rejected before and that obviously hasn't deterred me, so my hang-up isn't really fear that the girl will say "no." Instead, when I'm interested in a young lady what happens is I get nervous I have nothing interesting to say or offer to our initial meeting, and I psych myself out. I have such a hard time making normal friends as is, I start convincing myself that my 5 minute convo with some cute girl couldn't possibly be entertaining enough to convince her to go on a date. My mind starts to blank, and suddenly I'm exactly where I feared I would be without anything to talk about, exciting or otherwise.

For several summers in a row I've been working with kids at camp, and I've been stuck in an awkward rut where I'm older than most counselors but younger than the higher-ups, so I don't have many people to socialize with. This year there is a young lady close to my age who I'm interested in as more than friends, and I take any opportunity I can to talk to her at work even if it's only a few passing minutes here and there. It's obvious she doesn't dislike me, but I'm having serious doubts if I'm interesting enough to be noticed as anything more than a coworker. At a staff party we talked several times and it went well, but the more nervous I got the more put off I was when she talked to other coworkers and it looked to me like they were hitting it off ten times better than I could muster. Keeping my eyes open from day to day, I can tell this girl is popular amongst the staff, and having my own social problems as is it's hard for me to imagine I'm interesting or personable enough to stand out as potential date material compared to my other male coworkers who can shoot the honeysuckle with ease.

I know if I keep doubting myself I'm never going to have the finesse to attract this girl or anyone else, but I don't know how to snap out of whatever it is keeping me back. I could, of course, just go for it and ask her out spontaneously rather than risk her getting close to another coworker in the meantime (assuming she isn't already taken or whatever), but I'm just so nervous messing up somehow, and just as I haven't worked through this problem yet I'm afraid I can't work through it in the future. I've been debating online dating as an alternative because then at least I know I'd be meeting people who are also looking for someone and might be more open to what I have to offer, but I don't feel like giving up in the real world just yet.

easy: work out, buy new clothes, change hair style, get your style together and don't focus just to one woman. Chances you get her are on average low so be interesting for wider audience.

normally I don't give such advices because they are bunch of cheap loonies but go to PUA forum. These loonies are just what you need this time, everything else you already have.

PS; I know what I wrote here sounds terrible but after those years I have sixth sense and I can tell your problems are very common and easy to solve. Be glad the main thing: emotional balance and ability to think and act like adult is mastered in your case. All you need is cheap and easy to get first-impression skill and at least acted confidence during first hours of relationship. Everything else will go smooth after that.

 

[sk66rc]

There's such a thing as "trying too hard"... Sometimes we do that without even meaning to... Especially when we get nervous... How about starting a conversation with a simple "Hi"... If you can't think of things to talk about, get her to start... "So...!!! What's going on with you today?" doesn't hurt either... Have a mentioned I've dated a girl & I met her by slapping her? Ok, that was by an accident... I was trying to talk to a buddy of mine & I was trying to tell him something with a hand gesture & she walked by just as I was making a big gesture with my hands & "Slap!!!"... It wasn't really hard but she made a big stink about it, in a funny sortta way... We hit it off on the spot & we've dated... Point is, it's not always about how smooth you are... It could be clumsiest thing you've ever done & it may get you noticed... I'm not suggesting spill a drink on her head or slap her next chance you get... Oh, god, don't do that...!!! But some people do start off in a weirdest way... Don't get discouraged & just be yourself... At the risk of being a biggest/oldest cliché, be yourself & if it was meant to be, you'll be alright...

 

[ardour]

... How about starting a conversation with a simple "Hi"... If you can't think of things to talk about, get her to start... "So...!!! What's going on with you today?"

Ahh no... that implies you're looking for any excuse to talk rather than having something interesting to talk about. Ask something more specific than "how's it going?"

 

[Peter.EU]

this forum desperately needs people with social experience.

 

[Rainbows]

this forum desperately needs people with social experience.

I have plenty.

 

[sk66rc]

... How about starting a conversation with a simple "Hi"... If you can't think of things to talk about, get her to start... "So...!!! What's going on with you today?"

Ahh no... that implies you're looking for any excuse to talk rather than having something interesting to talk about. Ask something more specific than "how's it going?"

Well... Isn't that what you wanna do? Talk to her?

 

[ladyforsaken]

this forum desperately needs people with social experience.

Well it's kinda hard to have a lot of that with a nature of a forum like this...

 

[Nicolelt]

this forum desperately needs people with social experience.

I think there are people here with some, just others ignore their advice because they suggest something outside of the person's comfort zone.

 

[ardour]

Well... Isn't that what you wanna do? Talk to her?

Looking like you're interested in something in particular is better than appearing desperate to talk about anything. Is says that you have interests of your own, whereas a bland "how's it going" comes across weird if it's someone you don't know.

 

[WildernessWildChild]

this forum desperately needs people with social experience.

I think there are people here with some, just others ignore their advice because they suggest something outside of the person's comfort zone.

You hit the nail right on the head Nicolelt- time and time again there's perfectly great advice ignored here simply because people refuse to accept honest feedback or they simply would rather ***** and complain about the way things are and not realize that change starts with them.

+1

 

[barky]

Agreed. Having an open mind is key to self-improvement.

 

[VanillaCreme]

Agreed. Having an open mind is key to self-improvement.

Absolutely. But many people take either of those two - having an open mind or self-improvement - and start thinking that they have to change themselves. Which, for either one, you really don't. Having a broad range of thinking or bettering yourself doesn't necessarily mean change. Unfortunately, some people can't differentiate the two.

 

[barky]

Exactly! People don't have to change who they are, just their approaches to a given concern.

 

[TheSkaFish]

You don't have to change yourself. You don't have to do anything. But I think sometimes people do have to change themselves to really feel happy and to do better in life than they could with their old story. After taking some time to ponder it, I now realize why I am in a lousy situation - because somewhere early in life, I told myself the story that things were hard for me. That I was just not a person that things were easy for. That other people were just faster, stronger, smarter, more creative/artistic, funnier, and better-looking than me and that I couldn't be better than what I was born with. I remember this goes back a long way. I would tell myself at various points in life, tying my shoes is hard. Riding a bike is hard. Swimming is hard. Sports are hard. Drawing is hard. Math is hard. English is hard. Socializing is hard. Driving is hard. Guitar is hard. Applying for jobs is hard. Talking to girls is hard.

I told myself that everything in life would be difficult for me and I lived my life according to that story. As a result I haven't been the happiest, most fulfilled and most able person. I've started to wonder lately, what if I'd told myself that these things were easy? Or at least, what if I'd told myself that these things are at least moderately do-able? I look at other people who seem to live their lives in a way that suggests they tell themselves things are easy, or at least that they can do it. And they seem to be much more successful.

I am beginning to question if any of that stuff was necessarily harder for me, or if I was just subconsciously inventing excuses to keep me in my comfort zone, to keep myself from doing the work. My mind tries to talk me into all kinds of ways of wasting time. I've since learned how to talk it out of its nonsense.

I deeply regret how I lived in my childhood and adolescence and even my early 20s, because I know I didn't live up to my potential. I didn't let myself be as happy and accomplished as I could have. It's a big source of regret.

So I think sometimes yes, you do have to change your story. Change who you are by changing who you tell yourself you are. I'm still consciously doing this. It takes some times to watch the thoughts that come into your head naturally, but then again, I know my old story wasn't making me happy so I'm willing to try almost anything to change it. The biggest thing I've learned (barring any physical or mental disabilities or ailments, of course) is that things don't have to go any specific way. I didn't have to wind up like this. If I told myself a different story about who I believed I was and what I believed I was capable of, I know I would have been much more successful.

 

[VanillaCreme]

What's even worse than thinking you have to change is constantly comparing yourself to people. Perhaps the reason why some things seem so hard to accomplish for some people is that they have an unnaturally high expectation of everything because of other people. You aren't the guy down the street, or the girl next door, or the milkman three mailboxes down. You are you. Stop comparing yourself to everyone. You don't have to be better than everyone to be a good person.

Personal growth and betterment of self doesn't necessarily mean you need to change your story. Tweaking your outlook on life and things though... Attitude is a great deal of disappointment and failure.

 

[TheSkaFish]

What's even worse than thinking you have to change is constantly comparing yourself to people. Perhaps the reason why some things seem so hard to accomplish for some people is that they have an unnaturally high expectation of everything because of other people. You aren't the guy down the street, or the girl next door, or the milkman three mailboxes down. You are you. Stop comparing yourself to everyone. You don't have to be better than everyone to be a good person.

Personal growth and betterment of self doesn't necessarily mean you need to change your story. Tweaking your outlook on life and things though... Attitude is a great deal of disappointment and failure.

I can't help but interpret this as inherently defeatist. I've lived my life with an unnaturally low expectation for what my life could be and it lead directly to unhappiness and regret.

The story I told myself was that I was a person who wasn't going to get anything. That I was doomed to mediocrity and failure and would never distinguish myself. If I keep going on this track, then the absolute BEST case scenario I can hope for is to just drink and watch TV like everyone else, never experiencing success, never getting any ideas, never having anything to talk about at social gatherings, never being interested in my own life. To me that is unacceptable.

You may not have to be better than everyone to be a good person. But you do have to have a certain amount of x to get y. Could be relationships, money, muscle, intellect, anything. And it opens so much more doors which make your ONE life so much more enjoyable. For example, if I were in better shape, I would probably do better when I play softball and I would enjoy it a lot more. Or, if I were making more money, I would have more options as to how I spend my free time and I would enjoy it a lot more. Or, if I had more creative skill, I would enjoy my life much more as a writer of my own established series or a legitimate guitarist than I ever would as an office clerk.

Getting back to the thread topic - if this guy doesn't learn how to talk to girls, he's probably not going to get a relationship. And he seems to want one. What would be the better course of action? Change who he thinks he is to being someone who can talk to girls and learns how to do so, or tweaks his expectations and resigns himself to being single for the rest of his life?

Tweaking one's outlook sounds too close to giving up on happiness and dreams. I mean where does it end? How low do you let things go? I'd rather learn to be better than convince myself to be okay with things I am not. And there is a lot in this world that I am not okay with.

“If you don't know what you want...you end up with a lot you don't.”

- Chuck Pahlaniuk