survival of the fittest

[goldenrod]

Hello, I am new and have just joined this forum because I would like to respond to Fvantom, and I would rather not respond as an anonymous "Guest."

I am a 53-year-old female. I have been severely isolated my whole life long (despite two marriages -- and they were both abusive relationships). I have survived things and been positive and forward-looking, have never given up thinking that things would get better, have worked and worked on my social skills and personal shortcomings, have forced myself to do activities outside of my normal introverted personality, joined clubs and groups after my own interests, and also tried NOT to try too hard, lol! All those good things that were mentioned.

None of those things have worked for me.

I am not saying that Fvantom's advice isn't good, because it is! So is the other advice I have read on this forum so far, but nothing has worked for my own individual situation. So if I feel that my loneliness is so hopeless, why am I here in this forum? Because at 53 I am finally beginning to realize that my intractible isolation might indeed be a lifelong condition. I am growing older and am getting tired of trying, and while changing myself has brought me the internal satisfaction of making myself a better human being it has never brought any outward change in my condition. Nothing short of an atomic blast would change my isolative situation, I think. Nevertheless, I have come here in the hope of feeling some sort of community with other people who are enduring situations similar to my own. I also hope that I can be of some help to others, not in the area of breaking out of isolation, of course! About that, I still know nothing. But perhaps in the area of coping skills, I might be of some assistance.

For all of you who can still look forward with hope, may your hopes be fulfilled and your life full of good people who want to be with you and who love you for yourself.

 

[Thrasymachus]

Well Fvantom, you are too young yet. When you are older you will get more jaded. People who still have enough youth ahead of them can have a false sense of optimism that things will get better in some distant date. I was like that when I was younger, I thought things were bad now but in some mythical future everything would be better, so I continued hiding in self imposed isolation. But eventually you will realize that your 29 like me, that the allegedly best years of your life are past you, except they were never pleasant and that there is still no end in sight to the pains of living.

This whole positive thinking stuff does not work. If it did everyone you met in life would be totally self actualized, cultivated and virtuous. Instead it is much the opposite, everyone is deeply flawed and they have the same problems and warts from years ago, everything just tends to accumulate and scar them more with time's passing.

 

[Luke_S]

I'm sorry, but I wouldn't say everyone is deeply flawed, and everyone does not have the same problems. Maybe we're all in the same isolated situation here, but there's hundreds of reasons why we are. Each to his own and each an individual.

If thinking good thoughts didn't work, we would never have comedians, athletes, people that work solely to help others in huge charities around the world, and so much more. If we couldn't think positive nothing would ever get done. But please don't get it confused with being unrealistically optimistic or having ideologies of unreachable goals.

In my opinion giving yourself more slack and relaxing is positive thinking, so yea that's what I'll do today, cut myself some slack and relax...

 

[Fvantom]

Well Fvantom, you are too young yet. When you are older you will get more jaded. People who still have enough youth ahead of them can have a false sense of optimism that things will get better in some distant date. I was like that when I was younger, I thought things were bad now but in some mythical future everything would be better, so I continued hiding in self imposed isolation. But eventually you will realize that your 29 like me, that the allegedly best years of your life are past you, except they were never pleasant and that there is still no end in sight to the pains of living.

This whole positive thinking stuff does not work. If it did everyone you met in life would be totally self actualized, cultivated and virtuous. Instead it is much the opposite, everyone is deeply flawed and they have the same problems and warts from years ago, everything just tends to accumulate and scar them more with time's passing.

if you ask me that sounds pretty hopeless to me, it looks like all you did was say that positive thinking is a bad idea and left it at that with no help or advice and that kind of attitude doesnt belong here.

now, I dont belive in empty optimism, that you can just sit around thinking everythings gonna work out and somehow your life will magically become awesome, honeysuckle doesnt work that way. You have to get out and make your life the way you want it and not wait for it to come to you....and if you cant manage to muster up a positive thought, you wont get anywhere.

Yes I know once you get older, it gets harder to get out of loneliness, and as much as I dont like to say this, if youre in your 30s, 40s, and still lonely, its because you didnt do anything about it when you had the chance, but I will give you some advice, once you get old enough to the point where going out to make friends becomes a rarity, you should start looking toward more drastic change in your life, move to a new place, follow your dream, start living the way you want because you only have one life to live, and honestly, it may be harder to get out of loneliness at an older age, but its not impossible so dont use that as an excuse and dont give up

 

[Thrasymachus]

Personally my problem is not loneliness in the sense of no social contact. I have a circle of what other would call "friends", whatever that problematic term means. What I don't have is meaningful people that will support me when I will need help and challenge me to better myself every day compared to the one before it. That is what I want.

I am vegan and straight edge, so it is much harder for me to meet people than others because those two facets of my life break rapport with the vast majority of people who center their lives around constantly eating animal flesh products or cannot be at a gathering of more than two other people without wanting drinks or drugs. What my problem is, is that no one around me is like me, I feel like some creature from an alien planet even when and especially when I hang out with my alleged friends whom I don't have the courage to surmount and move past.

 

[Luke_S]

I can sort of relate, I feel a few of my friends were very distant from me before. I could sense my friendship with a few people was getting further and further away. Not really because I didn't see them much, but because of how I interacted with my friends, and how I was distancing myself from them without even knowing I was doing it, because I wasn't accepting that some things about them are different from myself.

Sometimes I would never say what I felt, or I would suppress certain thoughts and feelings at times in the hope it would please other people. Doing this I'd often feel drained or transparent after I'd met them. I would feel flimsy or fake, likely to suppress my opinion for the opinion of others, or missing the bigger point and to accept that we're not all the same so it doesn't hurt to disagree at times.

So I addressed the situation and I still tell myself now best to be who you feel is right, I have made some changes towards my friends and I've noticed that it's improved for me, and it was all in my head in the first place. It always feels good when I meet someone and I really know who they are, and they know who I am, it's hard to explain but the genuineness of it is very good for getting rid of loneliness. I also feel that my friends also know me for a better person having individuality, and that on the rare occasions when I do see my friends its holds a lot more value.

 

[Ak5]

The main point is that you've got to keep trying.

Nobody wants to be friends with a person who is depressed.
Nobody wants to be friends with a person who doesn't talk.
Nobody wants to be friends with a person who is selfish.
Nobody wants to be friends with a person who isn't confident.

Finding a person who doesn't look for these characteristics when deciding whether to be friends with you, is rare.

We've got to find what's wrong with us and adapt.

 

[Luke_S]

The main point is that you've got to keep trying.

Nobody wants to be friends with a person who is depressed.
Nobody wants to be friends with a person who doesn't talk.
Nobody wants to be friends with a person who is selfish.
Nobody wants to be friends with a person who isn't confident.

Finding a person who doesn't look for these characteristics when deciding whether to be friends with you, is rare.

We've got to find what's wrong with us and adapt.

Yeah but best not to worry about it too much or try to accomplish everything that is the social norm as a friend. Depressed people can have lots of friends, if the people they're with understand them and take them for who they are.

There can be a lot of people out there though that might not care, but there are so many that do care too.

I mean take this forum for example we all care about each other, and I bet there hundreds of people just like us even in our home towns and we just don't know about it yet.

 

[Ak5]

It's about your average person. An average person, I believe, wouldn't do that.

Now, someone who has suffered the same thing, yes.
Or if the person is of good heart, again, not average.

If otherwise, A Lonely Life Forums would probably not exist, or there would be a ton less people.

 

[Thrasymachus]

Average person is not worthing knowing.

I was raised by old fashioned Greek peasants and they have a totally different attitude than most Americans. Americans are like lobotomized robots who think life is about making and spending money. They aren't even close with their own families, brag about leaving for college, moving across country, kicking their kids out to earn or perish, etc.

The average person is so banal and base, it shocks me anew everyday. The average person can only be someone who will use you for entertainment at best.

 

[Ak5]

The average person, is just your average person. There is no "Americans" or "Greeks" to anything.

 

[Thrasymachus]

Yes, there is a difference. Probably you believe that because you are American.

Americans have been capitalist for alot longer, so they are less humane in general. Americans generally don't have meaningful contacts with their neighbors any longer, weak family bonds even in the nuclear family, will perhaps relocate over a dozen times in their lifetime chasing work/school, etc. The United States is a grinding stone, not the mythical melting pot, people come here from all over the world till their bonds with their once homeland, culture and people, are crushed to fine powder, till all they can tell people is that they are American. There are so many weirdo sub-cultures in this country, because people are lost out in the mass looking for a tribe to belong to that is of a human conceivable size. Being a New Yorker is not enough because there are millions of them, so you might become a straight edge punk rocker in Manhattan, and there are only two bars/clubs where those punks go in the area. That is human manageable, being a Manhattaneite is not, because 1.6 million live there. Also it is hard to meet people if you are not part of a subculture tribe or alcohol loving clubber, bar-hoppers because outside of such avenues, Americans don't have the time or inclination to meet others.

 

[IgnoredOne]

lol

We are, after all, the Great Satan.

 

[AbinayaJones]

Loneliness is an unpleasant feeling in which one experience a strong sense of emptiness.It can also be named as social pain.Everyone have different ways to move away from loneliness.Sometime loneliness can cause depression.

 

[Fvantom]

Yes, there is a difference. Probably you believe that because you are American.

Americans have been capitalist for alot longer, so they are less humane in general. Americans generally don't have meaningful contacts with their neighbors any longer, weak family bonds even in the nuclear family, will perhaps relocate over a dozen times in their lifetime chasing work/school, etc. The United States is a grinding stone, not the mythical melting pot, people come here from all over the world till their bonds with their once homeland, culture and people, are crushed to fine powder, till all they can tell people is that they are American. There are so many weirdo sub-cultures in this country, because people are lost out in the mass looking for a tribe to belong to that is of a human conceivable size. Being a New Yorker is not enough because there are millions of them, so you might become a straight edge punk rocker in Manhattan, and there are only two bars/clubs where those punks go in the area. That is human manageable, being a Manhattaneite is not, because 1.6 million live there. Also it is hard to meet people if you are not part of a subculture tribe or alcohol loving clubber, bar-hoppers because outside of such avenues, Americans don't have the time or inclination to meet others.

take this to another thread, and dont be judging people based on where they come from, I know americas messed up, but not everyone here is

 

[Lonesome Crow]

Yes, there is a difference. Probably you believe that because you are American.

Americans have been capitalist for alot longer, so they are less humane in general. Americans generally don't have meaningful contacts with their neighbors any longer, weak family bonds even in the nuclear family, will perhaps relocate over a dozen times in their lifetime chasing work/school, etc. The United States is a grinding stone, not the mythical melting pot, people come here from all over the world till their bonds with their once homeland, culture and people, are crushed to fine powder, till all they can tell people is that they are American. There are so many weirdo sub-cultures in this country, because people are lost out in the mass looking for a tribe to belong to that is of a human conceivable size. Being a New Yorker is not enough because there are millions of them, so you might become a straight edge punk rocker in Manhattan, and there are only two bars/clubs where those punks go in the area. That is human manageable, being a Manhattaneite is not, because 1.6 million live there. Also it is hard to meet people if you are not part of a subculture tribe or alcohol loving clubber, bar-hoppers because outside of such avenues, Americans don't have the time or inclination to meet others.

take this to another thread, and dont be judging people based on where they come from, I know americas messed up, but not everyone here is

I live in the USA. I dont believe in everything he writes..but there
is a grain or an ounce of truth to what he is saying.

honeysuckle....now a day..our work hours are longer than what it was 20 yrs ago..the commute time takes longer.
By the time you get home from a hard day at work...
fresia socializing.. I ma go to fucken bed. Single or in a relationship.
If Im luckie i might have a woman to come home to.
If Im bless she might had gone gocery shopping for micro wave dinner i can throw in the nuke box.
If Im loved she might decide to fresia the living honeysuckle out of me
before I get shut eyes.

yeap...she's gonna wanna throw a fucken monkey wrench
into the routine...She's all dress up ready to go out (have dinner
or whatever) When Im ready to hit the hay when I get home
from work....

"Errrr...Honey cant we just order chinese todAY for culture?
wE had mexicans last night"
"yes deAR...I know its friday night"
"what???? you wanna go punkout"
"youll give a BJ after we get home?"
"yes honey...I love you too"
" btw...can you drive...Cuz i ma need to really get honeysuckle faced"

 

[Thrasymachus]

...

If Im bless she might had gone gocery shopping for micro wave dinner i can throw in the nuke box.

...

That is another funny thing now that you mention it. American supermarkets have huge amounts of already prepared microwave food compared to many other countries. It seems there is more prepared than non-prepared food in the supermarkets. Between eating out and microwave crap, few Americans enjoy home cooked meals. The youth barely know how to cook, the young women follow more how to drink, drug, party and apply French nails.

The Greek intellectual Xristos Yannaras says that cooking and sharing a meal with people is an expression of love and appreciation, that eating together is more than just fuel for body, it a shared experience together that nourishes the soul. The thing that matters most is having meaningful shared connections with others, but we are taught that money matters more. There are so many Americans who think on the contrary that it is so great to eat out at almost a different eatery everyday, it makes them feel like they are big and worldly. Charles Eisenstein says that for capitalism to expand and create new wealth year after year, you have to either conquer more of nature and turn it into money or take things people once did for each other for free, as a gift, and turn it into something they instead have to pay for.

 

[Fvantom]

huh, I wasnt aware this thread was about everything wrong with america, so shut up and stay on topic

 

[Ak5]

Please take your anti-American sentiment elsewhere.

If you live in America and have such an anti-American sentiment, no wonder your lonely.

Turn a smile on

We may not be perfect but we do our best.

God Bless America.

 

[Thrasymachus]

Americans do their best to care mostly about money, entertainment and not much anything else.