T
TheLonelySkeptic
Guest
Patrick says:
Well, I've always tried to explain magic scientifically. >.>;
Kj says:
If you explain magic scientifically, it's no longer magic. It's technology.
*whaps*
Patrick says:
At least to a point. -.- As in, if you make a spell... o.o that makes it dark...
Kj says:
You want to go make a Final Fantasy MMORPG go right ahead.
lol
Patrick says:
whatever energy you let loose repulsed every photon in that region. It didn't simply become dark.
For no reason.
Because that's retarded. <.<
As if physics aren't at play in that universe.
Which is incredibly lazy.
Kj says:
It's magic. There may be a "scientific" basis behind it, but it's completely superfluous. The point of fantasy is escapism... you don't fancy up escapism with equations and bullocks of the sort.
Patrick says:
Kj says:
YOU'RE TRYING TOO HARD XD
Patrick says:
Be that as it may, but extremely intelligent beings that often wield magic on great scale know things about the world around them that the average farm peasant may not.
That there are molecules and photons and even if those don't come to any mention anywhere... >.> that's how that spell works.
Kj says:
There are molecules and photons in this universe, yes.
Patrick says:
They're there, too. >.<
Kj says:
You are extremely lacking in creativity. xD
Patrick says:
Its lacking in creativity to try to incorporate some realism in a world of complete, nonsensical fantasy? That's much more difficult than just pretending everything "is" for no reason whatsoever.
Kj says:
Do you seriously sit through a fantasy flick and try to figure out how the quarks and gluons are manipulated to produce magic?
It's not "no reason" lol. We're not writing a goddamn physics textbook.
Patrick says:
*Sigh.*
Kj says:
And this isn't final fantasy, where all magic is just some form of higher technology.
Patrick says:
I hate final fantasy and I made no mention of technology.
Kj says:
If you explain magic with science, it's no longer magic.
Patrick says:
You can't explain it with science.
Kj says:
Magic is, by definition, supernatural. You cannot explain the supernatural with natural explanations.
Patrick says:
I'm explaining what happens that may be the end result. Not how it comes about. Which is much more important by scientific standards.
If supernatural things occured in this world... would they not have some scientific basis behind them? Albeit not one us feeble mortals can wrap our tiny brains around, but still.
Kj says:
This is what you're trying to do... you're trying to figure out a way that magic could be described scientifically. You're trying to turn magicians into quantum mechanics. No. Magic -by definition- is mysterious and awesome. You can't take all the mystery out of it. Not in fantasy. If you want to define what magic is using electrons, photons, quarks or gluons or whatever, go write science fiction.
lmfao
Patrick says:
o.o Quantum mechanics is just as mysterious and awesome to a moron.
Kj says:
An no, Patrick. In the first week of Philosophy 101 you learn that the supernatural cannot be explained by natural means. Science is practiced by natural means. Therefore science cannot measure or explain supernatural occurrences. That is why they are super(beyond)natural. >.<
As SOON as science explains something "supernatural," it becomes natural.
Lightning was supernatural at one point. Then we explained it. Now it's natural.
Patrick says:
Something supernatural wouldn't occur through natural or known means... but it still would have effects grounded in some scientific relationship with the world around them.
Kj says:
It might be possible to measure the effects of supernatural occurences, but it would be impossible to measure the occurences themselves.
If it's supernatural, then it is beyond natural, and nothing natural can be used to explain it. As soon as something supernatural is explained by natural means (science) the, viola! It was never supernatural to begin with.
Patrick says:
A huge hand, radiating with bright, heavenly light breaks through the clouds and picks a man up to ferry him heaven. The man returns, and he has gray-white hair despite not aging. What happened there, that can be observed scientifically? Something came out of the sky that bathed the surroundings with photons, and perhaps radiation to cause the change in the good man's hair pigmentation.
Also, some amount of force was applied upon said man in order to be lifted into the sky.
Bam.
Kj says:
You're missing the point.
Patrick says:
YOU'RE missing the point. >.<
Kj says:
No, Patrick.
Patrick says:
o.o <3
Kj says:
>>> If it can be measured by natural means, then it is not supernatural. <<<
That's it!
If it CANNOT be measured by natural means, then it is supernatural.
Patrick says:
Not measured, or at the very least completely... but its nature can (to a DEGREE) be fathomed scientifically!
Kj says:
It doesn't matter what scenario you dream up. If it is at all possible to measure that hand in a scientific manner, then that hand is not supernatural.
Then what "degree" of it can be measured is not supernatural, and the "degree" that can be measured is natural.
Dude, you're arguing against the very definition of supernatural.
Patrick says:
I launch a fireball. Fire is natural. I did something supernatural with natural means about it.
Kj says:
*facepalm*
It doesn't matter what scenario you dream up, dude.
Patrick says:
o.o ... T_T Fine! Then magic is NATURAL, by your definition. *Stubborn.*
Kj says:
No.
Magic is supernatural, in fantasy.
In science fiction, magic is natural.
That's the MAIN DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO GENRES.
Patrick says:
No.
Kj says:
Dude. Seriously.
Patrick says:
The difference is one is space ships and lasers... the other is dragons and wizardry.
Kj says:
sigh.
Dude seriously. Take a basic college general literature course.
When you go over the genres and stuff.
Patrick says:
I'm a junior in high school. Ha!
Kj says:
The three genres "Horror, Sci-fi, and Fantasy" fall under the umbrella of "speculative fiction." What separates the three is rather defined. What separates Fantasy from Sci-fi is that magic in the former is supernatural, whereas magic in the latter is natural. It may not be called magic, but an advanced enough technology whether fictional or not can seem to us like magic.
Star Wars is technically fantasy, and not science fiction. However it's more often than not called science fiction (and I don't debate it) because it uses technology as a crux. HOWEVER, the "force" is unexplained until episode I, with the midichlorian honeysuckle. Once episode I premiered, Star Wars became 100% Sci-fi.
Patrick says:
The only difference is the sci-fi world's 20,000 years - give or take - in the future when they REALIZE what magic is and fantasy's when people still don't bathe regularly and consider it "mysterious and awesome". o.o
Kj says:
Star Wars takes place in the past.
Patrick says:
Not for that civilization.
Its their future. They've developed far past the medieval era.
Kj says:
Well then Ivanhoe and Lord of the Rings can be considered Science Fiction by your definition, because "for that civilization ... it's their future."
Patrick says:
I wouldn't know.
Kj says:
Logic hurts.
Patrick says:
I didn't follow Lord of the Rings.
>.>
Kj says:
All you said that qualifies a story as sci-fi was its time period. Is it "time period relevant to us"?
In that case, The Matrix is fantasy because it takes place in 1999.
Patrick says:
You're just using twisted logic to manipulate a very simple, and common sensical fact.
Kj says:
Nope.
I'm using the standard genre definition.
Patrick says:
The Matrix isn't medieval times. XD
Kj says:
So the only thing that makes something fantasy is that it takes place in medieval times?
Patrick says:
'S future.
Yes! Or before it (from that race's developmental timeline, not ours).
Kj says:
I know what you're trying to say. You're trying to say the difference between fantasy and sci-fi is that fantasy uses magic and sci-fi uses technology.
Patrick says:
When people invent cars and begin using the scientific method to better decypher the world around them, magic becomes "natural" as opposed to supernatural and maybe implemented into technology. >.>
Kj says:
Ooooh. So The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe is not fantasy because it takes place in 1944.
Patrick says:
I refuse to compare magic, however, with technology in that a fireball would be the equivalent of a laser gun.
Kj says:
Dude. You just proved my goddamn argument for me.
Thank you.
Patrick says:
o.o Kay.
Well.
XD
Kj says:
Fantasy = magic. Sci-fi = technology. Yes?
Patrick says:
Yes.
Kj says:
Magic = unexplained by science. Technology = explained by science. Yes?
Patrick says:
Not always.
Kj says:
*facepalm*
Patrick says:
Ha.
XD
^_^
Kj says:
lol
you're not grasping my point, dude. I'm talking about definitions here.
The DEFINITION of magic is that which is unexplained by natural means (i.e. science).
Patrick says:
o.o I dun' care.
They should change it, then.
Kj says:
If you describe how magic works to a tee, then it's no longer magic. It's SCIENCE!
Patrick says:
It is magic!
Kj says:
oi, you're dense. xD
Patrick says:
Because the definition is void. If I call a rat a small brown creature...
Yet I stumble upon a red mouse!
It IS a mouse.
Kj says:
That's a false analogy.
You should take a logic class too
Patrick says:
Why is it illogal?
illogical*
Kj says:
because the definition of rat isn't "a small brown creature"
Patrick says:
I'm not speaking literally.
Kj says:
and a rat and a mouse isn't the same thing
Patrick says:
Expand joor brain.
Kj says:
yes, it's a false analogy.
What you basically said was... "If I call an orange a fruit, and then I find a red apple. It's a red apple."
Patrick says:
Fine. We have a creature called a woozle. All known woozles are brown. At least by the hair-braned douchebags that make it a point to catalogue woozles. But I find an orange woozle! It isn't a woozle by their definition, because it isn't brown. That's something else entirely they know is orange, so hey, let's ascribe it to that.
No. Its a god **** woozle.
XD
i*
Kj says:
"Fine. We have a thing called magic. All known magic is supernatural. At least by the hair-brained douchebags that make it a point to catalogue magic. But I find magic that isn't supernatural. It isn't magic by their definition, because it isn't supernatural. [It's] something else entirely they know is not supernatural, so hey, let's ascribe to that." Another false analogy. You're pointing out --
Patrick says:
No. o.o Because it still would be magic. Magic that can be explained, at least to a point. >.> Never fully, mind you. That only hits a wall created by the fact that all magic THEY know of is supernatural.
And HAS to be entirely supernatural, apparently.
Kj says:
No, it would not be magic. IT WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT ISN'T MAGIC THAT YOU ARE JUST CALLING MAGIC FOR THE honeysuckle OF IT XD
Patrick says:
Or else its... technology? Which would be silly given that magic doesn't involve any type of machinery.
Just hands.
And a kickass robe.
Maybe a stick.
But that's it.
Kj says:
The point wasn't that there's no mechanics behind it.
The point was that those mechanics are not explained or fully known.
Patrick says:
Those mechanics are probably manipulation of energy on behalf of the caster. He obviously knows, or the forces governing his magic know HOW those work.
So, by someone or something, magic is explained.
But then its not magic.
honeysuckle. What's that wizard doing?
I don't know. He has ******* technology in his god **** hands.
But its invisible! And. Not there.
Kj says:
Since when have you read about a wizard that knows completely what magic is?
Patrick says:
Completely? No. His own spells? Yes.
Kj says:
Just because he knows how to operate it doesn't mean he knows how it works. I know perfectly well how to operate the computer I'm typing on, but fresia me if you ask me how exactly it works.
Patrick says:
And you, my good Kevin, represent every computer user out there?
No.
Someone out there right now! ... Is on one of these bad boys... that probably also makes em'. >.> And programs em'. And what have you.
Kj says:
Again, you're missing the base of my argument completely. All you're trying to do is redefine something to make it more comfortable for you. That's not how definitions work. If it was, my mother would tell me to get a job, and I would go outside and smoke a cigarette. All I'd have to tell her is that my definition of getting a job is smoking a cigarette. And she told me to go get one, so.
Patrick says:
No, but if you got paid for smoking said cigarette, you could indeed define it as a "job", at least in that it makes you money.
For work, arguably. The calories it takes to burn to bring it to your lips and back.
Kj says:
you know what? I've figured out your problem here.
Patrick says:
o.o
Kj says:
You are refusing to suspend logic for escapism. Normal people (no offense) have the capability of suspending logic to some extent when reading a fantastic story, or a book. For instance, Treasure Island doesn't actually have to exist for me to enjoy the book Treasure Island. You're unable to suspend the logicalities of a modern scientific world for that which is mere escapism. You don't need -----
to expain everything with quarks and gluons and photons when you're talking about mere escapism. It's about the story, not the mechanics. If you can't see past the mechanics, then I'm afraid to say that you are just as creatively inept as every other modern day teenager.
You are trying to substitute scientific explanations for creativity. That's not the way to go, bro.
Not when talking escapism, anyway.
Patrick says:
But I cannot explain magic at all. Yet I take it as existant in that story, universe, whatever. Y'see, casting a fireball WOULD be using energy to excite air molecules to ... level of vibration for fire to manifest or whatnot. But! The fantasy is in the fact that no one could channel or manipulate those energies so freely or powerfully left to their own devices.
But, oh, a wizard can. <.< One with mana and, trained in doing so and whatnot. That's where the fantasy comes in. I'm simply adding some real-world crap to it because it bores me otherwise (I suppose its too creative XD).
Kj says:
Yes, but you're taking away the mystery of it. That's the most important part. It's romantic to imagine a world where there's a higher "force" that isn't bound by the physics of a material world. That's what escapism is all about!
Patrick says:
Its a mystery what causes fire? Hell, it'd be the same concept had that wizard rubbed two sticks together!
Kj says:
And you don't need to explain it. Just say that it's there, and readers/players/viewers will be happy.
Patrick says:
The mystery is in his ability in doing it.
Kj says:
Oh god. You are seriously hopeless. Nevermind. >.<
Patrick says:
-.- Egh.
Kj says:
If a character casts a curse of weakness on another character, do you honestely want your players to imagine his atoms being scrambled and his cells deteriorating because of some specific quantum fluctuation brought on by the caster's knowledgable manipulation of quarks and gluons manifesting themselves in the fabric of the space-time continuum? No. Because it's ******* magic. You don't need to.
Patrick says:
... Yes, I would. ._.
Kj says:
Ugh.
Go write Sci-fi.
Well, I've always tried to explain magic scientifically. >.>;
Kj says:
If you explain magic scientifically, it's no longer magic. It's technology.
*whaps*
Patrick says:
At least to a point. -.- As in, if you make a spell... o.o that makes it dark...
Kj says:
You want to go make a Final Fantasy MMORPG go right ahead.
lol
Patrick says:
whatever energy you let loose repulsed every photon in that region. It didn't simply become dark.
For no reason.
Because that's retarded. <.<
As if physics aren't at play in that universe.
Which is incredibly lazy.
Kj says:
It's magic. There may be a "scientific" basis behind it, but it's completely superfluous. The point of fantasy is escapism... you don't fancy up escapism with equations and bullocks of the sort.
Patrick says:
Kj says:
YOU'RE TRYING TOO HARD XD
Patrick says:
Be that as it may, but extremely intelligent beings that often wield magic on great scale know things about the world around them that the average farm peasant may not.
That there are molecules and photons and even if those don't come to any mention anywhere... >.> that's how that spell works.
Kj says:
There are molecules and photons in this universe, yes.
Patrick says:
They're there, too. >.<
Kj says:
You are extremely lacking in creativity. xD
Patrick says:
Its lacking in creativity to try to incorporate some realism in a world of complete, nonsensical fantasy? That's much more difficult than just pretending everything "is" for no reason whatsoever.
Kj says:
Do you seriously sit through a fantasy flick and try to figure out how the quarks and gluons are manipulated to produce magic?
It's not "no reason" lol. We're not writing a goddamn physics textbook.
Patrick says:
*Sigh.*
Kj says:
And this isn't final fantasy, where all magic is just some form of higher technology.
Patrick says:
I hate final fantasy and I made no mention of technology.
Kj says:
If you explain magic with science, it's no longer magic.
Patrick says:
You can't explain it with science.
Kj says:
Magic is, by definition, supernatural. You cannot explain the supernatural with natural explanations.
Patrick says:
I'm explaining what happens that may be the end result. Not how it comes about. Which is much more important by scientific standards.
If supernatural things occured in this world... would they not have some scientific basis behind them? Albeit not one us feeble mortals can wrap our tiny brains around, but still.Kj says:
This is what you're trying to do... you're trying to figure out a way that magic could be described scientifically. You're trying to turn magicians into quantum mechanics. No. Magic -by definition- is mysterious and awesome. You can't take all the mystery out of it. Not in fantasy. If you want to define what magic is using electrons, photons, quarks or gluons or whatever, go write science fiction.
lmfao
Patrick says:
o.o Quantum mechanics is just as mysterious and awesome to a moron.
Kj says:
An no, Patrick. In the first week of Philosophy 101 you learn that the supernatural cannot be explained by natural means. Science is practiced by natural means. Therefore science cannot measure or explain supernatural occurrences. That is why they are super(beyond)natural. >.<
As SOON as science explains something "supernatural," it becomes natural.
Lightning was supernatural at one point. Then we explained it. Now it's natural.
Patrick says:
Something supernatural wouldn't occur through natural or known means... but it still would have effects grounded in some scientific relationship with the world around them.Kj says:
It might be possible to measure the effects of supernatural occurences, but it would be impossible to measure the occurences themselves.
If it's supernatural, then it is beyond natural, and nothing natural can be used to explain it. As soon as something supernatural is explained by natural means (science) the, viola! It was never supernatural to begin with.
Patrick says:
A huge hand, radiating with bright, heavenly light breaks through the clouds and picks a man up to ferry him heaven. The man returns, and he has gray-white hair despite not aging. What happened there, that can be observed scientifically? Something came out of the sky that bathed the surroundings with photons, and perhaps radiation to cause the change in the good man's hair pigmentation.
Also, some amount of force was applied upon said man in order to be lifted into the sky.
Bam.
Kj says:
You're missing the point.
Patrick says:
YOU'RE missing the point. >.<
Kj says:
No, Patrick.
Patrick says:
o.o <3
Kj says:
>>> If it can be measured by natural means, then it is not supernatural. <<<
That's it!
If it CANNOT be measured by natural means, then it is supernatural.
Patrick says:
Not measured, or at the very least completely... but its nature can (to a DEGREE) be fathomed scientifically!
Kj says:
It doesn't matter what scenario you dream up. If it is at all possible to measure that hand in a scientific manner, then that hand is not supernatural.
Then what "degree" of it can be measured is not supernatural, and the "degree" that can be measured is natural.
Dude, you're arguing against the very definition of supernatural.
Patrick says:
I launch a fireball. Fire is natural. I did something supernatural with natural means about it.Kj says:
*facepalm*
It doesn't matter what scenario you dream up, dude.
Patrick says:
o.o ... T_T Fine! Then magic is NATURAL, by your definition. *Stubborn.*
Kj says:
No.
Magic is supernatural, in fantasy.
In science fiction, magic is natural.
That's the MAIN DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO GENRES.
Patrick says:
No.
Kj says:
Dude. Seriously.
Patrick says:
The difference is one is space ships and lasers... the other is dragons and wizardry.
Kj says:
sigh.
Dude seriously. Take a basic college general literature course.
When you go over the genres and stuff.
Patrick says:
I'm a junior in high school. Ha!Kj says:
The three genres "Horror, Sci-fi, and Fantasy" fall under the umbrella of "speculative fiction." What separates the three is rather defined. What separates Fantasy from Sci-fi is that magic in the former is supernatural, whereas magic in the latter is natural. It may not be called magic, but an advanced enough technology whether fictional or not can seem to us like magic.
Star Wars is technically fantasy, and not science fiction. However it's more often than not called science fiction (and I don't debate it) because it uses technology as a crux. HOWEVER, the "force" is unexplained until episode I, with the midichlorian honeysuckle. Once episode I premiered, Star Wars became 100% Sci-fi.
Patrick says:
The only difference is the sci-fi world's 20,000 years - give or take - in the future when they REALIZE what magic is and fantasy's when people still don't bathe regularly and consider it "mysterious and awesome". o.o
Kj says:
Star Wars takes place in the past.
Patrick says:
Not for that civilization.
Its their future. They've developed far past the medieval era.
Kj says:
Well then Ivanhoe and Lord of the Rings can be considered Science Fiction by your definition, because "for that civilization ... it's their future."
Patrick says:
I wouldn't know.
Kj says:
Logic hurts.
Patrick says:
I didn't follow Lord of the Rings.
>.>
Kj says:
All you said that qualifies a story as sci-fi was its time period. Is it "time period relevant to us"?
In that case, The Matrix is fantasy because it takes place in 1999.
Patrick says:
You're just using twisted logic to manipulate a very simple, and common sensical fact.Kj says:
Nope.
I'm using the standard genre definition.
Patrick says:
The Matrix isn't medieval times. XD
Kj says:
So the only thing that makes something fantasy is that it takes place in medieval times?
Patrick says:
'S future.
Yes! Or before it (from that race's developmental timeline, not ours).
Kj says:
I know what you're trying to say. You're trying to say the difference between fantasy and sci-fi is that fantasy uses magic and sci-fi uses technology.
Patrick says:
When people invent cars and begin using the scientific method to better decypher the world around them, magic becomes "natural" as opposed to supernatural and maybe implemented into technology. >.>
Kj says:
Ooooh. So The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe is not fantasy because it takes place in 1944.
Patrick says:
I refuse to compare magic, however, with technology in that a fireball would be the equivalent of a laser gun.
Kj says:
Dude. You just proved my goddamn argument for me.
Thank you.
Patrick says:
o.o Kay.
Well.
XD
Kj says:
Fantasy = magic. Sci-fi = technology. Yes?
Patrick says:
Yes.Kj says:
Magic = unexplained by science. Technology = explained by science. Yes?
Patrick says:
Not always.Kj says:
*facepalm*
Patrick says:
Ha.
XD
^_^
Kj says:
lol
you're not grasping my point, dude. I'm talking about definitions here.
The DEFINITION of magic is that which is unexplained by natural means (i.e. science).
Patrick says:
o.o I dun' care.
They should change it, then.
Kj says:
If you describe how magic works to a tee, then it's no longer magic. It's SCIENCE!
Patrick says:
It is magic!Kj says:
oi, you're dense. xD
Patrick says:
Because the definition is void. If I call a rat a small brown creature...
Yet I stumble upon a red mouse!
It IS a mouse.
Kj says:
That's a false analogy.
You should take a logic class too
Patrick says:
Why is it illogal?illogical*
Kj says:
because the definition of rat isn't "a small brown creature"
Patrick says:
I'm not speaking literally.
Kj says:
and a rat and a mouse isn't the same thing
Patrick says:
Expand joor brain.
Kj says:
yes, it's a false analogy.
What you basically said was... "If I call an orange a fruit, and then I find a red apple. It's a red apple."
Patrick says:
Fine. We have a creature called a woozle. All known woozles are brown. At least by the hair-braned douchebags that make it a point to catalogue woozles. But I find an orange woozle! It isn't a woozle by their definition, because it isn't brown. That's something else entirely they know is orange, so hey, let's ascribe it to that.
No. Its a god **** woozle.
XD
i*
Kj says:
"Fine. We have a thing called magic. All known magic is supernatural. At least by the hair-brained douchebags that make it a point to catalogue magic. But I find magic that isn't supernatural. It isn't magic by their definition, because it isn't supernatural. [It's] something else entirely they know is not supernatural, so hey, let's ascribe to that." Another false analogy. You're pointing out --
Patrick says:
No. o.o Because it still would be magic. Magic that can be explained, at least to a point. >.> Never fully, mind you. That only hits a wall created by the fact that all magic THEY know of is supernatural.
And HAS to be entirely supernatural, apparently.
Kj says:
No, it would not be magic. IT WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT ISN'T MAGIC THAT YOU ARE JUST CALLING MAGIC FOR THE honeysuckle OF IT XD
Patrick says:
Or else its... technology? Which would be silly given that magic doesn't involve any type of machinery.
Just hands.And a kickass robe.
Maybe a stick.
But that's it.
Kj says:
The point wasn't that there's no mechanics behind it.
The point was that those mechanics are not explained or fully known.
Patrick says:
Those mechanics are probably manipulation of energy on behalf of the caster. He obviously knows, or the forces governing his magic know HOW those work.
So, by someone or something, magic is explained.
But then its not magic.
honeysuckle. What's that wizard doing?
I don't know. He has ******* technology in his god **** hands.
But its invisible! And. Not there.
Kj says:
Since when have you read about a wizard that knows completely what magic is?
Patrick says:
Completely? No. His own spells? Yes.Kj says:
Just because he knows how to operate it doesn't mean he knows how it works. I know perfectly well how to operate the computer I'm typing on, but fresia me if you ask me how exactly it works.
Patrick says:
And you, my good Kevin, represent every computer user out there?No.
Someone out there right now! ... Is on one of these bad boys... that probably also makes em'. >.> And programs em'. And what have you.
Kj says:
Again, you're missing the base of my argument completely. All you're trying to do is redefine something to make it more comfortable for you. That's not how definitions work. If it was, my mother would tell me to get a job, and I would go outside and smoke a cigarette. All I'd have to tell her is that my definition of getting a job is smoking a cigarette. And she told me to go get one, so.
Patrick says:
No, but if you got paid for smoking said cigarette, you could indeed define it as a "job", at least in that it makes you money.
For work, arguably. The calories it takes to burn to bring it to your lips and back.
Kj says:
you know what? I've figured out your problem here.
Patrick says:
o.o
Kj says:
You are refusing to suspend logic for escapism. Normal people (no offense) have the capability of suspending logic to some extent when reading a fantastic story, or a book. For instance, Treasure Island doesn't actually have to exist for me to enjoy the book Treasure Island. You're unable to suspend the logicalities of a modern scientific world for that which is mere escapism. You don't need -----
to expain everything with quarks and gluons and photons when you're talking about mere escapism. It's about the story, not the mechanics. If you can't see past the mechanics, then I'm afraid to say that you are just as creatively inept as every other modern day teenager.
You are trying to substitute scientific explanations for creativity. That's not the way to go, bro.
Not when talking escapism, anyway.
Patrick says:
But I cannot explain magic at all. Yet I take it as existant in that story, universe, whatever. Y'see, casting a fireball WOULD be using energy to excite air molecules to ... level of vibration for fire to manifest or whatnot. But! The fantasy is in the fact that no one could channel or manipulate those energies so freely or powerfully left to their own devices.But, oh, a wizard can. <.< One with mana and, trained in doing so and whatnot. That's where the fantasy comes in. I'm simply adding some real-world crap to it because it bores me otherwise (I suppose its too creative XD).
Kj says:
Yes, but you're taking away the mystery of it. That's the most important part. It's romantic to imagine a world where there's a higher "force" that isn't bound by the physics of a material world. That's what escapism is all about!
Patrick says:
Its a mystery what causes fire? Hell, it'd be the same concept had that wizard rubbed two sticks together!
Kj says:
And you don't need to explain it. Just say that it's there, and readers/players/viewers will be happy.
Patrick says:
The mystery is in his ability in doing it.
Kj says:
Oh god. You are seriously hopeless. Nevermind. >.<
Patrick says:
-.- Egh.
Kj says:
If a character casts a curse of weakness on another character, do you honestely want your players to imagine his atoms being scrambled and his cells deteriorating because of some specific quantum fluctuation brought on by the caster's knowledgable manipulation of quarks and gluons manifesting themselves in the fabric of the space-time continuum? No. Because it's ******* magic. You don't need to.
Patrick says:
... Yes, I would. ._.
Kj says:
Ugh.
Go write Sci-fi.
