Trying to accept the fact I will be alone forever

[kamya]

I dont think men are detached from their emotions at all. They've just learned through experience that nothing good ever really comes out of expressing them. People can encourage it all they want but in practice it seems like one of those things women say they want until their guys open up and become vulnerable. Then suddenly the guy seems much less attractive for some magical reason.

 

[Red_Wedding_Casualty]

I dont think men are detached from their emotions at all. They've just learned through experience that nothing good ever really comes out of expressing them. People can encourage it all they want but in practice it seems like one of those things women say they want until their guys open up and become vulnerable. Then suddenly the guy seems much less attractive for some magical reason.

It's a balancing act. We're supposed to be emotional 46% of the time, but stoic 54% of the time. And we're meant to read the situation, and make a judgement based on being vulnerable, or stoic. 

The problem is that, there are never any clear cut rules on how to act where, and men will read those situations wrong almost all of the time.

 

[ardour]

I dont think men are detached from their emotions at all. They've just learned through experience that nothing good ever really comes out of expressing them. People can encourage it all they want but in practice it seems like one of those things women say they want until their guys open up and become vulnerable. Then suddenly the guy seems much less attractive for some magical reason.

It's a balancing act. We're supposed to be emotional 46% of the time, but stoic 54% of the time. And we're meant to read the situation, and make a judgement based on being vulnerable, or stoic. 

The problem is that, there are never any clear cut rules on how to act where, and men will read those situations wrong almost all of the time.

Better to play it safe and remain stoic 100% of the time then. Except in certain circumstances, close relative's death or similar situation (just not too much).

 

[bleed_the_freak]

Your woman ain't yo friend.

Just remember that.

You are a mate.

And she will always be assessing and reassessing how "fit" you are.

If the particular episode of emotional expression is perceived as "weakness", that's a demerit.

 

[bleed_the_freak]

I should add:

When you find a man or woman who is mature enough to desire traits such as honesty, loyalty, integrity, civility, and respect, you will be looking at a person who is not shallow and who has moved beyond the basic "mating" instincts as a guide to finding a partner.

 

[michael2]

I dont think men are detached from their emotions at all. They've just learned through experience that nothing good ever really comes out of expressing them. People can encourage it all they want but in practice it seems like one of those things women say they want until their guys open up and become vulnerable. Then suddenly the guy seems much less attractive for some magical reason.

I think this is misinterpretation 

Its like how some men may label a woman who gives orders to someone as 'bossy'

Just like how some women may label a man who shows vulnerability from time to time as 'weak'

These people need to loosen up their view of gender roles and stereotypes just a bit

 

[ardour]

I think it's more than that. Whether cultural, or to do with biology, there's a deeply rooted aversion and disgust toward vulnerability in males.

Ever see your father or a close male family member break down and show some emotional distress? Think about how uncomfortable that made you feel.

 

[TheRealCallie]

Ever see your father or a close male family member break down and show some emotional distress? Think about how uncomfortable that made you feel.

I have.  I've seen almost every close male family member (including those on my ex's side) break down at some point.  I wasn't uncomfortable at all...with any of them.   
The only thing that bothered me is that I didn't always know how to help them.  But that bothers me whether it's a close person or not, whether it's a male or not.

EVERYONE breaks down, I don't care who you are.  EVERYONE has emotional distress at some point.  It's NATURAL.

 

[bleed_the_freak]

Showing emotions isn't necessarily the same as showing "emotional distress."

Some men wear their emotions on their sleeves and yet come across as quite strong.

Others who are troubled by their own emotional lives display incongruency and come across as "in distress" when getting emotional.

The former can actually come across as strength, while the latter might be perceived as weakness.

I think this is an important distinction.

 

[kamya]

I wasn't even really talking about distress. Just showing emotions in general has negative consequences. It doesn't mean guys are detached or arent feeling them though.

Quiet desperation mhmm.

 

[ardour]

Being passionate about something that's important to you is generally okay. Just nothing that implies vulnerability or insecurity. (From what I gather) that means you can't give the impression to a wife or girlfriend that they have a large influence on your self-esteem and happiness. Gotta remain 'self-contained', etc.

 

[michael2]

I think it's more than that. Whether cultural, or to do with biology, there's a deeply rooted aversion and disgust toward vulnerability in males.

Ever see your father or a close male family member break down and show some emotional distress? Think about how uncomfortable that made you feel.

I think it might make you uncomfortable because your not use to seeing it.  I've seen my sisters and mother all cry numerous times, and while its still sad to see them do it, you become more accustomed to it.  Its like how people wont feel uncomfortable at seeing someone get mad and upset when such outbursts are common for them, but someone who is almost always calm and collective comes off as 'out of control' whenever they get angry because people arent use to seeing it.

I never felt uncomfortable when my father cried, but thats probably because he always seemed to cry about odd things.  But when he did cry about things like when my sister died, it didnt bother me at all.  Probably because I was already use to seeing him cry.

Being passionate about something that's important to you is generally okay. Just nothing that implies vulnerability or insecurity. (From what I gather) that means you can't give the impression to a wife or girlfriend that they have a large influence on your self-esteem and happiness. Gotta remain 'self-contained', etc.

Wow, people arent even allowed to be open and honest with eachother?  Why wouldnt a partner be a significant influence on your happiness or self-esteem?   That sounds like some sort of nightmare relationship where both parties refuse to become vulnerable.  How are you suppose to have any kind of real intimacy in a relationship like that....


This reminds me of this article I read.  In it the guy said women did not respect him,  he couldnt stay in a relationship long, etc etc.  So to fix it he claims that he started showing women that they didnt mean alot to him.  How did he do that?  One example was when going to a restaurant he entered through the doors first and turned around and held the doors shut so his date could not enter.  He said this 'playful' gesture told her psychologically he was in control and she did not mean alot to him, and in return she respected him for it.

Im sorry, but you can count me out.  If these are the types of games you have to play with people, then I'd much rather just stay single.

 

[ardour]

It's an observation about what I consider the social norm to be, not an endorsement of it.

It seems like there are two acceptable ways for men to approach relationships without being seen as needy and unattractive.

'A bit if fun', nothing serious.
or
A goal, sort of like a career achievement i.e. "I want to be married/have kids by 30". Beyond meeting the right criteria (things in common, mutual attraction and so on) she is just someone he happens to be with. If it ends, well, he'll find someone else... that's the impression he's got to give. The subtext of his behaviour must suggest emotional independence.

Any more attachment than than the above is going to be a problem because, as said it indicates her having a big influence on your self-esteem/happiness, which is a huge turn off. Women on the other hand are generally free to become attached without being perceived as less attractive.

It's my impression from looking at other people's relationships anyway. Most of the time the guy is emotionally unavailable, probably because he has to be. The relationship is more a proving ground for his masculinity than anything. Which is fine if you're a man who only wants someone to have sexy times with, or someone to settle down and tick off another life goal with (kids, house, etc.). But if it's someone you can feel close to along with all that, well then it's not going to be that appealing because any acceptance you receive will be of a very conditional kind.

Maybe I'm speaking from bitterness and indulging in quite a bit of confirmation bias here. I've seen the odd hetero couple where it didn't apply, where the guy was far from dominant or cold, which gives me some hope.

 

[Erasercrumbs]

I think something lacking from the current social fabric is teaching young men how to be alone.

Most men are not alpha types, and the world couldn't function if we were. Most men are delicate in comparison; we hurt and weep alone to ourselves rather than assert dominance over others. From an evolutionary standpoint, most men are completely unnecessary--one dominant male can provide for several women in his lifetime, making the rest of our sons, well, redundant. This is just the way mammals are, ugly and painful though it might be.

Men need to be taught that not being liked by the opposite sex doesn't make us bad. Even on this site, I see so many young men who seem to exist in a state of emotional ruin for circumstances beyond their immediate control, and that is very sad. It's a waste of potential, and most boys deserve better.

 

[kamya]

I think something lacking from the current social fabric is teaching young men how to be alone.

Most men are not alpha types, and the world couldn't function if we were. Most men are delicate in comparison; we hurt and weep alone to ourselves rather than assert dominance over others. From an evolutionary standpoint, most men are completely unnecessary--one dominant male can provide for several women in his lifetime, making the rest of our sons, well, redundant.  This is just the way mammals are, ugly and painful though it might be.

Men need to be taught that not being liked by the opposite sex doesn't make us bad. Even on this site, I see so many young men who seem to exist in a state of emotional ruin for circumstances beyond their immediate control, and that is very sad. It's a waste of potential, and most boys deserve better.

It will be impossible to teach men that with the way society likes to shame and joke at their expense. They aren't weak. They weep alone because they know no one gives a honeysuckle. Why open yourself to the judgement and give others ammo to hurt you with later.

From an evolutionary standpoint most men might be redundent but from a societal standpoint we are very much necessary to keep this all rolling along smoothly. We should remember that because from a biological and physical standpoint there is nothing preventing these leftover men from attempting to just take what they want other than wanting to follow the rules and expectations of said society.

There are no female mass shooters. There is a reason. Im afraid things will only get worse the more we try to tell men what they need to learn and how they need to behave. Telling them to just accept being taken for granted.

 

[michael2]

I opened up to one of my sisters about my issues and even wept in front of her.  She didnt seem to really care and yeah, she's used it against me later.  In fact almost everytime I've told one of my sisters 'what your doing is hurting me' they've always used it to hurt me at a later time.

BUT I dont regret it at all.  Its still better then holding it in and not opening up to anybody.  I would say its like getting shot and needing surgery, and your only option was a lousy doctor.  Your better off letting him do it then just sitting there bleeding with a bullet in you with things likely to get worse.  Even if the doctor is lousy and hurts you even more during the surgery,  your likely to have more relief in the long run.  The simple point is you have to talk to someone, even if they are indifferent to your suffering.  You have to let it out.

Its been open season on men for quite some time.  Look how White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer was treated by the media - mocked, laughed at, and the cherry on top was him being played by a woman on Saturday Night Live, a full assault on his masculinity. What did the White House do?  They replaced him with a woman, because nobody will dare attack a woman like that in this day and age.  Problem solved.

I think its telling that Stephen Paddock left basically nothing as to why he did the Las Vegas shooting.  Its likely he was suffering some sort of internal turmoil, but told absolutely nobody about it.  Maybe he felt as a man he needed to 'pull up his boost straps and handle it on his own' because opening up to someone and becoming vulnerable is being 'weak' and 'unattractive' and in the end nobody cares and they'll use it against you later.  So the guy just held in who knows what ungodly levels of distress and rage inside him before taking it all out on people having fun.

It should also be noted that most terrorists are men too.  While they tend to hide behind political or religious motives, the truth is those men are deeply disturbed and angry too, and terrorism is an outlet for their frustration and aggression.  They're really not much different then Paddock.

The problem is society doesnt know how to build up without also tearing down.  People say they want to help minorities, women, and homosexuals, but at the same time these people have become increasingly hostile to straight white men.

 

[ardour]

"There are no female mass shooters..."

That sounds like a threat though doesn't it. Like blackmailing society. 

It's men who buy the guns, and in the end some people are just inadequate pieces of honeysuckle who choose to take their frustrations out on others. As for Stephen Paddock being a 'leftover', he was married and had millions tied up in assets. Not exactly struggling. He could have sought help.

 

[bleed_the_freak]

I maintain that while generalizations are generally true, there are indeed exceptions. Most of the exceptions I've encountered in this life come in the form of people who have transcended their natural mate-hunt-kill instincts are have evolved some semblance of spirituality, even in a vague form.

Both men and women can be kind, caring, giving, and nurturing.

I was a single father to a child abandoned by her own mother. If generalizations were always true, my life story wouldn't be possible because we all know that women are the nurturers and men are not.

 

[kamya]

"There are no female mass shooters..."

That sounds like a threat though doesn't it. Like blackmailing society. 

It's men who buy  the guns, and in the end some people are just inadequate pieces of honeysuckle who choose to take their frustrations out on others. As for Stephen Paddock being a 'leftover',  he was married and had millions tied up in assets. Not exactly struggling. He could have sought help.

I dunno. Didn't mean it as a threat just that its the way things are, inadequate pieces of honeysuckle or not. Symptom of a society that doesn't really seem to care about the problems of certain groups and their mental health imo. 

No one really knows what was going on with Paddock.

 

[smarty24]

Its a tough pill to swallow, but it needs to be done. I cant keep on feeling sad because I will never know what it feels like to be loved, or to be valued by a man. I need to just get over it, because its got me so depressed I walk around on the verge of tears all day long. Sometimes I wake up in the middle of the night and just cry because of how much it hurts. I hate this. I just want to know what its like to be touched by a man who loves and cares about me, and I want to be safe and free to feel the same way about him. It hurts so bad, sometimes I feel like my chest is going to explode.

No you won't trust me, someone will come sooner or latter