White middle-aged men

[ardour]

That's a comeback? It's just as lame as the topic...

I am very lame and you're still offended by the topic.

 

[frey12]

Oppression denying is not appreciated Kamya. Rdor was also speaking from his perspective. This was not a thread about racism, sexism, or classism. Your attempt to turn it into a privilege denial thread says a lot. Frey is not amused.

As white males we are obviously the most privileged in society. The only way we could possibly be single with all of this privilege is if there is something terribly wrong with us.

 

[kamya]

It's a way of explaining why single middle aged men are sometimes seen the way the OP is complaining about. I don't really care if it amuses you or not. I'm not denying the privilege but I do think that people like to trivialize any problems that we might have. Same with how many legitimate men's rights issues are trivialized and laughed at in general too I guess.

And honestly, anything I post on this forum that is in the "up for debate" section really says fresia all about who I am. Half the time I say honeysuckle just to try to get different points of view. Btw, I'm guessing you aren't a white middle aged male right?

 

[Poguesy]

This is like saying black middle-aged men are detested for having big winkys.

 

[kamya]

http://www.reddit.com/r/bigdickproblems
:club:

Everyone has problems.

 

[isthatso]

You have at least hit on a sterotype out there. Sometimes I feel the target of such hatred and prejudice...being white, 55 and having a perrenial grim, oppressed look on my face more often than not.

And the loser part too, despite having paid off my house and car, having a wife but no kids. Career wise i guess I should be a professional or CEO of an expansive Australian Mining Company but I'm not. I'm just a suburban nobody in a relatively dull Australian city struggling to keep a semi-respectable job so his partner doesn't finally get fed up with his abominable track record in keeping stable employment.
One thing life has taught me is never be complacent. The minute you think you are Jack the knife, you will surely be brought back to earth. I guess my prejudice then is youthful arrogants who view me as a loser and think they have all the answers. But fortunately I've met some very respectful young people (on here too) who don't pretend to have all the answers. Thank you.

 

[LeaningIntoTheMuse]

Whoa...wait a minute.

I can see where you're going with this, because people do assume. As a 30 year old guy, who is never seen with girls, people assume that I'm either gay or asexual. I've lost friends over it...they get married and have kids, they see that I'm still single and looking, and they drop me.

The only time, though, that someone would be seen as a pervert is if there is something seriously wrong with them. Like, they give out bad moods or vibes. I'm not talking about just social awkwardness, but the kind of vibe that "this guy is going to slit my throat in my sleep" kind of vibe. If you don't give out that vibe, you shouldn't have anything to worry about.

And all guys are perverts, lol. The sooner women realize this, the sooner we can all move on with our lives.

 

[ardour]

I brought race into it because Protestant Anglo-Saxon derived society lacks a sense of community. Single men are kind of cut adrift, even stigmatized in this non-culture.

That might sound a tad trite, like it's exoticising other ethnicities by assuming they have greater social cohesion.

 

[frey12]

OP is talking about stereotyping and labeling that expressly come from things like to catch a predator. The more famous crazies(not terrorist by coincidence) of the last 20-30 years. What you are talking about is not the same thing Kamya.

You are mocking a concept that you in fact fall under. Men's rights issues are trivialized and laughed at, because the same people who generally make mens rights their focus are also misogynist. Where as men's right issues generally pop up within feminist spheres of dialogue without such a response, and a large degree of understanding and compassion.

I am going to ask for you to explain your point. Pretty please.

It's a way of explaining why single middle aged men are sometimes seen the way the OP is complaining about. I don't really care if it amuses you or not. I'm not denying the privilege but I do think that people like to trivialize any problems that we might have. Same with how many legitimate men's rights issues are trivialized and laughed at in general too I guess.

And honestly, anything I post on this forum that is in the "up for debate" section really says fresia all about who I am. Half the time I say honeysuckle just to try to get different points of view. Btw, I'm guessing you aren't a white middle aged male right?

To OP: I personally don't think you did anything wrong. You wanted a thread about a subject and that is fine. I only commented on Kamya's post, because he was trying to transform your thread into something that it wasn't. Kamya was trying to transform this into a white middle aged men are stereotyped to, so yeah everyone is equal subject. By analogy it is like when conservatives go see this winter is so cold, so global warming doesn't exist. Btw that is why they changed it from global warming to climate change. (global warming referencing the fact that polar ice caps were melting, but oh well)

Also OP i never really think those things about middle aged white men. I tend to have a disdain for rich white men which is very different than an age attachment(see iraq/afghan war+financial crisis). Mind you white men in general are a huge issue when trying to fight for equality. The people with the least ability to have empathy for a minority and women are white dudes. Not calling you monsters, but politically white males are very frustrating to deal with.

I brought race into it because Protestant Anglo-Saxon derived society lacks a sense of community. Single men are kind of cut adrift, even stigmatized in this non-culture.

That might sound a tad trite, like it's exoticising other ethnicities by assuming they have greater social cohesion.

 

[kamya]

Ok fine I'll answer directly and exactly what rdor asked for in the OP. Here's how you deal with it. Figure out the cause. Once you know why things are the way they are, try to find out what you can do to change these perceptions, and then act one it.

If you are having trouble figuring out why, I've made a couple of posts that give some of what I think could be causing it. Also, nowhere did I mention everyone is equal or that we don't have some privilege. I don't get why Frey keeps pulling those ideas from my posts but that wasn't really what I intended to get across.

 

[ardour]

Also OP i never really think those things about middle aged white men. I tend to have a disdain for rich white men which is very different than an age attachment(see iraq/afghan war+financial crisis). Mind you white men in general are a huge issue when trying to fight for equality. The people with the least ability to have empathy for a minority and women are white dudes. Not calling you monsters, but politically white males are very frustrating to deal with.

getting off topic.
To be honest it's statements like these that make me want to throw my lot in with Kamya. Fighting for.. empathy around.. ? Specifics please. Minority stereotyping, as nasty as it is, doesn't prove white privilege as still a pervasive force that equally benefits all white males. I live in New Zealand by the way...

 

[frey12]

Also OP i never really think those things about middle aged white men. I tend to have a disdain for rich white men which is very different than an age attachment(see iraq/afghan war+financial crisis). Mind you white men in general are a huge issue when trying to fight for equality. The people with the least ability to have empathy for a minority and women are white dudes. Not calling you monsters, but politically white males are very frustrating to deal with.

getting off topic.
To be honest it's statements like these that make me want to throw my lot in with Kamya. Fighting for.. empathy around.. ? Specifics please. Minority stereotyping, as nasty as it is, doesn't prove white privilege as still a pervasive force that equally benefits all white males. I live in New Zealand by the way...

Well with your permission to be off topic I will reply OP. I will be using a list format with examples after mention a certain subject for this writing. I would also like to note I do not know jack honeysuckle about New Zealand for the record. So I will not be ascribing this information to you. It largely deals with the US.

Empathy around: It is easier to have empathy for a certain form of ism:sexism,racism, classism, etc if you have experienced these situations personally. White males generally experience these situations the least in combination. The most common form would be classism(for white males), but they do not experience it at the same level if you are 1 or more of these categories. (there are a lot more than 3)

So it is particularly hard to get those who don't have it as part of their background experience. To understand what you are talking about.

Example1: Women have to deal with being touched against their will. Sexist comments, being talked down to, being talked over, discrimination at the work place, and reduction in pay.

Example 2: South American people have to deal with anti-immigrant sentiment, racial slurs, police harassment, intense negative stereotyping, and reduction in pay.

Example 3: I have had to deal with people randomly calling me a nigger on the street. Police harassment, and people crossing the street, due to fear of me. I am less likely to get a job and when I do get a job receive less pay than other statistically. (request sources and ill get them when i have more time. ) Most US prisons are filled with Black and South American men.

Example 4: Lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, and queer or (LGBTQ) Have to fear being attacked for their appearance, have to fear police harassment, have to fear not being able to get a job, and have to fear being kicked out of their home for their sexuality(which happens frequently).

Example 5: classism Being lower income which is an issue around the world. In the US you are labeled as lazy if your a poor. You are labeled as a drug addict, a hick, gangster, stupid, and blamed for your situation. Lower class people are called a drain on society.

Note you can be all of these things at once and the issues multiply the more you are.

Fighting for equality:
When working toward equality you need to first work toward an understanding. So if you have personal examples that you can help reference for a person. IT easier for that person to understand. Then you can have them join in helping to teach other people why those issues are wrong not just for a moral reason, but to fix the problems that they create in society. Like the pay reductions, lack of equal employment opportunity, failure of proper representation throughout society, and social harassment which just comes from existing.

Working against these things can take many forms. Sometimes it is as simple as making sure a person has a right to speak when they normally wouldn't have the ability to. For instance my subordinates who were both intelligent hardworking women were very quiet, and i went out of my way to give them both the opportunity to speak and to listen.

The more advance stuff can be working toward policy change, reading to understand others situations outside of your own, and trying to make people be more welcome around you (i have a lot to learn). I hope you see where im going with this.



Privilege:
Privilege is simply the concept that a person with less ism effecting them has it slightly less stress to deal with. So if a person was a woman, who was gay, lower class, was born in Mexico, had an Spanish accent, and was some how a US citizen. The honeysuckle she would have to deal with would be a lot worse than say i would have to deal with.

She would probably be called a "dyke," while police harassed her for being an undocumented in the US, would be lower class, so she would have to deal with being touched by random dudes on the bus/train. She would have to make a mental check every time she tried to find someone of interest, because there might be a threat if that person reacted badly. A whole range of things.

I as a black male would not have to deal with all the harassment/oppression that comes with a combination of those things. So i would have more privilege than she does. I don't have to worry about my sexuality being questioned, and while I do have to worry about police. I don't have to worry about the same level of intense societal harassment that the LGBTQ community faces everywhere.

Privilege is merely recognizing you don't have to deal with as much negative honeysuckle as other groups do.

I hope that explains RDOR. I tend to be really lazy for my first reply, and then lots of detail as my posts go on.
Someone who is better than i at explaining this issue. Tim Wise:

 

[ardour]

Privilege:
Privilege is simply the concept that a person with less ism effecting them has it slightly less stress to deal with. So if a person was a woman, who was gay, lower class, was born in Mexico, had an Spanish accent, and was some how a US citizen. The honeysuckle she would have to deal with would be a lot worse than say i would have to deal with.
...


Privilege is merely recognizing you don't have to deal with as much negative honeysuckle as other groups do.

Point taken. That is one way of looking at privilege.

Shame + retraction...
I shouldn't have included race as a descriptive. There's too much potential for offence. Of course it can't be said that white males experience racism, certainly nothing like racial profiling, assumptions of criminality etc.

"White" society being individualistic and culturally anaemic, I tried to make some point that being lonely white male meant really being alone. Something like this. Along with white males being a group socially acceptable to dump on... now it just seems... lame (as pointed out).

 

[LeaningIntoTheMuse]

It has nothing to do with being white. It has to do with societal expectations.

 

[Limlim]

I kind of imagine a secret council that rules the world called the patriarchy, who all wear suits and sit on leather chairs as they look out the windows of a skyscraper, smoking cigars and laughing maniacally while they conspire how to kick down all the different people even further so they can rule them with a tighter iron fist. It just sounds so friggen awesome, if such a council of evil white men doesn't exist in a literal sense, then how can I be happy?

 

[Rosebolt]

You're pretty close to the truth, Limlim.

 

[LeaningIntoTheMuse]

A secret council does exist, it's called the FBI.

I do believe that there is a real "X Files" out there, that is assigned to investigate disturbances of freaky circumstances.

 

[Limlim]

You know you guys make it really hard to troll when you agree with my stupid honeysuckle...

 

[EveWasFramed]

LMAO!

 

[ucxb]

lol Limlim gets +1 ... a w e s o m e