Firstly I want to say if someone misunderstands my posts or if something I say is worded wrong in these posts I apologize, English isn't my native language and sometimes expressing the matters I want to express can come out how I didnt mean to state them.
Paraiyar said:
FrozenGrief, I know what it's like to feel frustrated and like the odds are totally stacked against you. Whatever comes your way, I do hope you find happiness.
Thank you
It's really what I'm achieving for - happiness for the people I care about, and some for myself as well.
Tiina63 said:
Frozen Grief-I just wanted you to know that you aren't alone, as I have the same problem. Either I like someone who doesn't feel the same way towards me or someone wants the 'good' side of me and doesn't want the rest of me. Having BPD does make it harder to find someone as there is still a lot of prejudice against mental health issues in society and because the parameters of what is seen as 'normal' are narrowing all the time. Nowadays it seems we have to go around looking happy and confident all the time. I have Asperger's and sometimes it has put people off dating me when I have told them. However, I will persevere as being alone is not what I want. I hope you persevere as well and that you find the happiness you deserve.
Yes I completely agree with this. I have still not completely given up, though things feel quite pointless sometimes when you're constantly getting turned down you know? And the stigma for our disorders is huge!
TheRealCallie said:
Yeah, I figured people would misunderstand. Okay, I'm going to speak in general here, not specifically to you. It's not about what the disorder/disease/illness is, that part doesn't matter. You could have something that I do have and I would say the same thing. I don't have to necessarily understand the disorder to think that people use it as an excuse.
And I suppose you're right to have that opinion. Even so, it is a fact they are not always excuses. For example with BPD the way amygdala and prefrontal cortex function can be very messed up and cause a lot of issues. It's also a fact people with things like BPD, PTSD or anything to do with very early childhood traumas and mistreatment might lack some skills that other people have.
But, I will concede that perhaps excuse was the wrong word to use. Crutch may have been a better word? Because you (generalized you) have a disorder/illness/disease, because you have issues with social anxiety and connecting with people, you might choose to see that your disorder/illness/disease is causing all your problems. But, IMO, while it might make it a little more difficult, I don't feel it actually causes the problems. It could be something else entirely that you aren't seeing because the disorder/illness/disease is in the forefront of your mind. You could be sabotaging yourself subconsciously because you think your disorder/illness/disease will get in the way of any relationship you might have.
There are a million scenarios I could go through, but I'll leave it at that for now. Hopefully that makes you understand what I mean a little better. Also please keep in mind that I did say I could be wrong and you could just be mentioning it a lot to try to make us understand better.
I understand this viewpoint and I can agree to an extent. I don't see it's the fault of my disorder alone that things are the way they are, but it's definitely a factor. It's a part of me. I have spent a lot of time wondering the reasons why things aren't going as planned. When I think of it, I see the practical issues that are the cause of problems - poor social abilities in real life, abandonment issues, trust issues, fear of failure etc. I don't think in my head that this all is necessarily the fault of BPD, or that the BPD is the factor why people don't associate with me.
However, the people who do not associate with me, or have issues with me, DO blame it on the BPD. How do I know this? Because they have said so to my face. "I'm sorry I think we can't be friends, your BPD is hard to put up with". It is not only oneself that cannot see past one's disorders, it's the other people as well. And this makes it very hard to socialize with them even though you can overcome the thought of the disorder being the source of all evil.
Of course you have a right to be accepted as a person without the BPD being a factor. A real friend or potential significant other will accept you as you are, not try to change you or fix you. However, I don't think you should be ashamed of what happens, that's not entirely on you. Relationships end all the time, which causes hurt feelings, but that doesn't mean you personally made them hurt, unless you were vindictive or vengeful about it or something? But in the end, if you feel you did someone wrong, just apologize to yourself and them and try not to dwell on it.
What about joining a meet up or something like that? Something that starts online and eventually meets in person. Or even find a local forum or something. Where there's a will there's a way, you just have to find it.
It's wrong to be with you JUST BECAUSE you're a challenge if that's the only reason they stay with you, but who's to say that is just what gets them in the door, gets them talking to you and they generally come to care about you and love you? Everyone needs some kind of reason to start talking to someone, some reasons are stupid and some are even a little on the mean side, but who's to say they won't change their mind or whether they really mean it or not? A "challenge" could simply be they never befriended someone with BPD so they don't know what to expect. It doesn't have to be an insult or something offensive. Maybe it was, though, and maybe it did offend you, but if you don't talk to them about it, you can't really know. You can speculate and come to different conclusions, but only that person knows exactly what they meant by that, if it's a bad thing or a good thing.
I tend to apologize to people when I feel like I have done something wrong I did not mean to. Although stopping the feel of shame is rather complicated. In my head it's like I'm not enough, if I had done x thing otherwise things would be better... etc.
Most Finnish forums with subjects that would interest me are dead, so it's hard to find like-minded people nearby. Same with sites like Meet up and such. At this point I'll have to resort to moving to another country I guess... or just try to be patient.
I have talked to them about it. The person said it wasnt about feelings, that they'd want to be with me just for the sake of challenge, just because they like challenging themselves. They didn't do it for care or will to get to know me. Just to test how well they can stand me. That's what I got out of their explanation when I asked.
MentatsGhoul said:
I don't mean to undermine your issues or sound condescending (I don't know all the details anyway, so there's no way to make an informed opinion), but it just seems to me that a lot of this is just your "feelings". You really only give one example of a person just liking you because you are a "challenge" (which, sorry about that btw, that's quite petty of them), which really isn't enough to show that most people feel that way. I'll just illustrate
"Someone wants me only if they can change me, or like me for my appearance and like my good half but hate my bad half"- how can you possibly know this? I mean, most of the time, we can't even objectively evaluate why WE want someone else, let alone why someone else might want us. Attraction is very complicated
"I can really sense people disliking and even hating my bad moods, which is probably why I lose my friends so easily"-again, you're "sensing" things. I've felt people love me, and I've felt people hate me, and I've been very wrong in both cases quite a few times. Now, maybe that's just me being bad at reading people, but considering you have BPD, I'm could assume you might have quite a few problems related to self-esteem and "reading" people. Again, I might be completely wrong about this, but just something to keep in mind
Finally, I feel I need to say something about this. I don't know how to word it without sounding offensive or condescending, so apologies if I do. But "I deserve all of me loved, not just the good moods"- look. No one is ever going to "love" your bad moments, or anyone else's bad moments for that matter. That would be masochism. And this isn't specific to you, or even people with mental health issues in general, this applies to everyone. They can only ever tolerate them because they see the good in you underneath it all. I don't have BPD, but I have severe depression and social anxiety. Sometimes, I'm a handful. It's not easy if you have to talk someone out of suicide or try to get them to enjoy something you enjoy, but they just can't, because of overwhelming anxiety. What's helped me is, I've accepted that these are ultimately problems I have to deal with, and hopefully overcome at some point myself. People can offer support, understanding, advice, but that's it. It's not on them, even if it's your significant other, a family member or a best friend, to feel your pain. If you have experienced being on the other side of this, you'll know that there's very little you can do to help someone with such issues, aside from repeatedly saying "I'm so sorry" or asking them to explain their feelings to you. At the end of the day, that's just how things are. We're all flawed human beings, just some of our flaws are more obvious than others. You need to find someone who is so amazing to you that their flaws seem small in comparison, and find someone who sees the good in you over the bad, rather than someone who just doesn't see the bad in you or blindly worships you no matter what you do. Again, I have to hope that this didn't come off as too offensive or bleak, but I honestly think it's one of the key points to finding a happy relationship.
There are a lot of examples I could write out there but some I feel less comfortable sharing, and it's already hard enough to start a conversation on a topic like this.
Attraction is complicated, but it's a different thing to be attracted to someone than wanting someone for few specific petty reasons. How do I know that people want me only if they can change me? I have experienced it. I have been in relationships where the other was constantly trying to change me, telling me I need to change, telling me I need to do this and that or they will leave me. I have also been told quite plenty of times that a person would love to be my friend, or would love to be with me, but my negative moods are unbearable to them. That's how I know. Plus it's not very hard to observe. When people start ignoring you every time you're upset yet seek your company when you're in a good mood it's quite obvious.
About feelings... it's easiest for me to write about how things feel to me, however it does not mean there's no logic or reasoning behind them. I can be very analyzing when I want to, as can many others with BPD, whenever the mood episodes are not in play. Perhaps I was more in some mood when writing the starting post, which made me express a lot of things from the viewpoint of my feelings, but it doesnt mean that all there is is the FEELING. I'm sorry if I've come out wrong, it's hard for me to express my train of thought to others. And yeah there might have been cases where I have read people wrong, but I also have been observing people all my life. I am a cautious person.
I disagree with your last paragraph, but perhaps we're just thinking the sentence differently. I'm not necessarily talking about loving one's bad moods. I'm talking about loving one as a whole. There is a huge difference loving someone's good OR bad moods vs loving someone as a whole. You don't have to like someone's bad moods but if you love the person as a whole then you accept them how they are. I have not experienced to be accepted how I am in my previous relationships. I have one friend, though, who has accepted me with my good and my bad moods. It's complicated to explain, but it's a good thing to feel like at least ONE person can show compassion like that, and it makes me question why others can't.
I have been on the other side when people have been acting suicidal, or going through hard times. It depends on person how much you can do. There's also different reasons driving people to that point, and whether you can help them or not depends a lot on those reasons. Sometimes you just need to be there for them when no one else is, and that's enough. I have talked people out of suicide, thus far I have not failed, though I have lost people to suicide when I wasn't there at the right time. I dont know whether it was me talking to them or their own realization to stop doing whatever they were doing, but what's important is that they did not do it. However I think other people can have lot more impact in how one feelgs than people make it sound like. It's of course individual for everyone.
