Yeah, another "Never had a girlfriend" post

[there is no hope]

If you do the online dating thing, have low expectations and don't chase too hard. Yes, there will be women (and a few douchy men) who will call you out for not caring, but it won't be every single person.

The common assumptions I see around here for men are:

- We ought to conform to what other people want, and what we want and what we need for our own respect is irrelevant.
- We are supposed to be unemotional robots who don't care one bit about rejection, in spite of the reality that rejection ******* SUCKS, especially when you've been rejected all of your life.
- Women have a lot more power and credit than they ought to have, and we just have to live with it. The classic "woman on pedastal" problem that plagues men who don't really get to be close to women.

I tried to suss out the woman's personality if I could get a response, to see if she is a believer in those three things, and if she's ever given any serious thought to them. I actually managed to meet a woman who understood well enough that those things are very real concerns, apparently she had a long-term boyfriend with many of the same issues and his own phobias. The whole thing was never going to work but at least I learned that women aren't all heartless robots, and she wasn't the only case.

It does get pretty annoying though, because I am really bad at psychoanalysis and most women don't want to answer those probing questions. It's a hell of a lot better than talking about shitty TV dramas and movies, though.

It is pretty hard to make something out of nothing though, and that's basically what online dating is. Last time I saw there was more mobbing and bully tactics on OKC, groups have formed on the internet with the mission of humiliating people for lulz and took a shot at me. It's really stuff like that which makes life impossible, groups of jackasses who feel it's their duty to suppress those they deem eugenically unfit, and while there are ways to deal with them, it's just another kick in the teeth if you've already been rejected, and these people like to make nice-sounding profiles to bait targets.
That's a good reason why your expectations need to be low, and those who are not invested in the ideologies of this society have a hard time meeting anyone; but for those who cannot conform and join the hierarchy, there is no way to just meet people with the kind of reckless disregard some people suggest, and expect anything substantial to arise.

 

[Batman55]

I feel like there's just a whole lot of negativity and self-defeating attitudes about it. Which when you think it ain't gonna happen, it's probably not gonna happen. Ever heard of a self-fulfilling prophecy?

Well in my case it was more of a question, if you looked closely. The thing is it's nearly certain that most men on a dating site will have to deal with loads of indifference (non-response) and/or "no", etc. I was asking how to deal with this. It *could* be true that if one lasts long enough on there, maybe something worthwhile will come of it. But I get the impression that most of us here (like myself) take it personally and can't last very long. How does one learn to *not* take it personally?

 

[ladyforsaken]

But I get the impression that most of us here (like myself) take it personally and can't last very long. How does one learn to *not* take it personally?

Detachment? Detaching yourself from the effects of the rejection. I don't know if that's possible at all because I don't do dating sites or put myself up to ask someone out... so I've never been through rejection of that sort to feel it. Just wondering if one can find a way to detach. Not that I know how exactly.

 

[BeyondShy]

But I get the impression that most of us here (like myself) take it personally and can't last very long. How does one learn to *not* take it personally?

I never will.

 

[Shiloh253]

The trouble I seem to have is that if one person turns me down, I automatically assume that's how the rest of my interactions are going to be. It doesn't matter if that's not true, that's how my brain works. And there's no way to turn that "off". It's impossible for me to shrug and brush it off like nothing happened, especially after multiple instances of the same thing happening. At this point, I've sunk too low to bounce back up.

 

[there is no hope]

But I get the impression that most of us here (like myself) take it personally and can't last very long. How does one learn to *not* take it personally?

Detachment? Detaching yourself from the effects of the rejection. I don't know if that's possible at all because I don't do dating sites or put myself up to ask someone out... so I've never been through rejection of that sort to feel it. Just wondering if one can find a way to detach. Not that I know how exactly.

I'm not good at rejection either.
It should be taken personally. I will never understand why people tell others to not take something as a personal slight when it most definitely is a personal slight. Rejection will always suck, anyone who claims it doesn't is lying through their teeth or has numbed themselves.

The only way to deal with rejection is to make sure it doesn't happen before you open your mouth, write to someone, or interact with them in any way. If you want to get anywhere with women you want to minimize rejections; and when they happen, you owe to yourself to think why the rejection happened. It's not just about you. because women will reject men very casually, sometimes simply because it amuses them and gives them a power trip. It's unlikely to guarantee success, hell you might have zero success and learn nothing, but you might figure out where you stand. Self-criticism has its uses, but that shouldn't be prompted by people who aren't going to put a shred of thought into you or their own actions.

It is a bit much to be upset about women who just don't read your messages, but understandable for men who never get a response ever and are left with the sense of total undesirability.

 

[ardour]

I'm not good at rejection either.
It should be taken personally. I will never understand why people tell others to not take something as a personal slight when it most definitely is a personal slight. Rejection will always suck, anyone who claims it doesn't is lying through their teeth or has numbed themselves.

It's hard to see how someone merely not finding you attractive is a slight, inasmuch as everyone has preferences for a partner that necessarily favour some while excluding others. If another man asked you out for example, should he take the rejection personally? Same thing with a female friend you didn't think of that way. You can't really expect every woman to find you appealing, so some rejection has to be expected.

On the other hand, what often accompanies rejections: the faux offence and disgust in response to a respectful, not overbearing level of interest, results in understandably hurt feelings. It's true some people make this needless ideologically driven big deal about unwanted attention. Just don't bother with them, they're not the kind of people you would want much to do with anyway.

 

[there is no hope]

It's hard to see how someone merely not finding you attractive is a personal slight, inasmuch as everyone, including you no doubt, has preferences for a partner that necessarily favour some while excluding others. If another man asked you out for example, should he take the rejection personally?

Who am I to tell someone how they're allowed to feel?
Part of rejecting someone means that you have to own what happens as a result, regardless of what you think a reasonable person would or should do. It's not a legal question where responsibility and fault are defined in a particular way, it's a question of someone holding themselves accountable for their own actions.

For what it's worth, I wouldn't necessarily reject a man, so that particular argument doesn't work on me. He'd have to acknowledge that I don't consider homosexual relations on the same level as heterosexual relations and that I'm probably not going to do much for him or vice versa. I've talked to gay men about this sort of thing and it was quite enlightening to hear about it from their perspective, but no man has ever asked me out nor vice versa. Of course the men I would be likely to talk to share similar beliefs about the world in general, and hardly speak for everyone.

I think everyone owes it to themselves to analyze why they reject people, rather than just assume that what their gut says justifies itself. I can see people already shouting me down as a homophobe based on what I said up there, and it's been levelled against me before, but it is what I believe is true (at least for myself, in my experience). I can't sit from on high and tell a gay man that he has to share my value system. I can argue that my perspective is based on reality though, and some of the men I talked to actually agree that gay sex and straight sex are quite different in nature, and that they prefer gay sex because it's more exciting and fun. I've never done much sexual with anyone, but I can try to see their perspective on it.

What would you tell someone who rejects someone based on their race? Someone can make an argument, but when their beliefs are analyzed, their preferences are usually rooted in assumptions about race and culture, and that the person judging really implies that those are more or less universal. It's something I realized about myself when I was trying to meet women, even though I never considered myself a racist and think racial segregation is a stupid concept. Would I have been right to keep being ignorant, or stop being ignorant so I don't walk into an ignorant white guy situation?

There are a lot of other examples, most of them far more benign than the things I mentioned. I've been into fetish material for quite some time, so I'm used to thinking about weird things that turn me on. I've also lurked around the edges of fetish groups, but most of the people in them annoy me.

Anyway I suppose there was a point there. What I was getting at is that a lot of things people do actually have a meaning, whether they want to acknowledge it or not.

Probably the best thing of my failed attempt to meet women is that I learned they're not all heartless creatures that like to reject men and can't get that rejection sucks. I don't like rejecting people either. I've rejected people for non-sexual things and I'm not going to justify that, because most of the time I was doing them wrong, because of fear or some other silly reason.

 

[sc1986]

Hi Shiloh (and everyone)

Boy, do I know how you feel. You are spot-on in describing my same situation I am 28, never had gf, no real friends, no siblings. Too lonely at the moment.
Even if you lost 88pounds dieting like I did and wear tighter shirts. Even if you go to the gym. Or you try to join the local youth association (or 3 different ones!). Boy it all feels hopeless and fake.

And especially when you start to notice that all the jerks seem to find someone, but genuine and honest people like us, do not! Especially a jerk who I thought was genuine but turned out to be a narcissist personality disorder and all of it was an act. And who is so ostentatiously faithful and all that 'perfect' looking BS.
....gosh...WHAT is it???

I think its up to people us to stick together...[/size]

 

[VanillaCreme]

I feel like there's just a whole lot of negativity and self-defeating attitudes about it. Which when you think it ain't gonna happen, it's probably not gonna happen. Ever heard of a self-fulfilling prophecy?

Well in my case it was more of a question, if you looked closely. The thing is it's nearly certain that most men on a dating site will have to deal with loads of indifference (non-response) and/or "no", etc. I was asking how to deal with this. It *could* be true that if one lasts long enough on there, maybe something worthwhile will come of it. But I get the impression that most of us here (like myself) take it personally and can't last very long. How does one learn to *not* take it personally?

I don't take rejection personally. Sure, there's always that thought, albeit a small thought for me, of, "****, what did I do?" or "Did I say or do something wrong?" But at the end of it all, it's not personal. Whatever a person's reason for rejection is their own, and it's really nothing to do with me. If I were to reject a person, that reason is my own, and they could probably do nothing to change my opinion.

I'm not taking something so personal if it's something I can't even change.

 

[Batman55]

Boy, do I know how you feel. You are spot-on in describing my same situation I am 28, never had gf, no real friends, no siblings. Too lonely at the moment.
Even if you lost 88pounds dieting like I did and wear tighter shirts. Even if you go to the gym. Or you try to join the local youth association (or 3 different ones!). Boy it all feels hopeless and fake.

Most of the time I've heard positive results when someone takes the plunge and does the hard work of self-improvement. Pretty much your level of self-improvement would seem to put many men to shame; I can only think you must be unlucky.

Obviously self-improvement does not guarantee success.. but it always improves chances, and some chances are (eventually) bound to fall your way once you make the needed improvements.

 

[ardour]

There's been some single women around me age at work and class who seemed like they were interested in talking, but then they hardly ever initiated, as if it should be up to me to start all the conversations. It's so boring that I often can't be bothered with that now.