Question

[EveWasFramed]

Just so everyone knows, this is NOT a debate thread and it's for GENUINE discussion, so misogynistic or misandrist comments. This is NOT a question about the opposite sex, but about YOURSELF, no matter what your sex is.

Now, to the question...

I've seen so many threads and posts (and even heard a lot of similar comments in real life) about people not wanting to "change themselves" to be with someone else. There seems to be a LOT of people in this world who are alone (no partner) and I have to wonder if it really is so bad to "change yourself" to become more attractive (physically, mentally, emotionally, and any other way that might be beneficial) to the opposite sex.

Yes, yes, I know....we should all make changes for "ourselves" if that's what we think would be beneficial for us, as individuals. Also, I know that some people feel they shouldnt have to change who they are to be with someone, etc, blah, blah, blah, which is fine.

However, with as many comments as I've seen here from people thinking that no one can be/has been interested in them, I wonder if making personal changes is really "compromising" who you are? If someone wants to be in a relationship that badly, or if they feel they need a partner to complete them, why not do what needs to be done and/or explore all avenues to make that happen? Im totally not one who advocates the PUA garbage, but "positive self-change" is something that I feel people should pursue (even in general) if they want to make themselves into someone that they feel can attract (not just physically) the right person for them.

If you don't think you're in good physical shape, start working out. If you think your hair needs a new style, go see a stylist. If you've ever been told you're abrasive, or rude, read some books on manners and social ettiquite. If you've ever been told that you have a stinky attitude, find out what's stinky about it and work to rethink your opinions/attitude. If someone tells you that you have chronic halitosis, see a dentist and have your teeth cleaned and brush and floss properly....if you feel that your closet is one big wardrobe malfunction, then get some different clothes! Go to a thrift store if you can't buy new clothes.

I think that we are who we are on a very BASIC level and that cannot be changed. However, I feel that *most* people have the capacity to make positive changes in their lives and about themselves. I don't deny it's likely the hardest think you will ever do, but...wouldn't it be worth it?
Im not suggesting that doing anything I've said here will guarantee that you get what you want out of life (as far as a relationship) but I feel it would benefit *most* people.

I'm very interested to see some positive suggestions/thoughts/opinions that might be helpful to anyone who reads this thread. Instead of pointing any fingers at the opposite sex, let's work together to come up with some good reading material for anyone who happens to wander into this thread, shall we?

Also, maybe I should take my own advice here since I'm single too!
*looks around for my weights and drops the cookie*

 

[9006]

I know exactly what you mean, and it's something I've actually done myself, the more I mature. I suppose you could call it immature for someone to be stubborn enough not to realize that they have personal obstacles preventing them getting a good relationship.

 

[WildernessWildChild]

Good thread Eve, I'll come back to it when I'm not wiped. G'nite

 

[defenestrate]

Since this is a question about ourselves, I'll get straight to the point.

However, with as many comments as I've seen here from people thinking that no one can be/has been interested in them, I wonder if making personal changes is really "compromising" who you are?
I do not concern myself with comprising who I am. Surprisingly, when a person thinks no one can be interested in them, it has more to do with how we think about ourselves rather than anything on the outside we can change. At least this was the case with me.

If someone wants to be in a relationship that badly, or if they feel they need a partner to complete them, why not do what needs to be done and/or explore all avenues to make that happen?
When I want to be in a relationship badly, it's unhealthy for me. Being willing to place myself within the wrong crowd, or go into any extreme to earn approval from others, has never helped me feel good about myself or helped me build future relationships. It hasn't improved my own life. It hasn't changed how I think about myself and it hasn't helped me value myself. This is co-dependency, which isn't a good thing.

I think that we are who we are on a very BASIC level and that cannot be changed. However, I feel that *most* people have the capacity to make positive changes in their lives and about themselves. I don't deny it's likely the hardest think you will ever do, but...wouldn't it be worth it?
Improving myself has always been the correct choice. Each day is another opportunity to do something for myself to help me be in a better place.

 

[EveWasFramed]

Each day is another opportunity to do something for myself to help me be in a better place.

+1

 

[painter's radio]

I think it depends on context, and what it actually is one is attempting to change about themselves. Good traits and bad traits. Changing a good trait to be in a relationship probably isn't a good idea, and is most likely why many people will say "don't change who you are for anyone" but sure, changing a stinky attitude could be a good thing, if you can actually do it and stick with it. People who end up in abusive relationships and find out the person they're with today is not the same person they were with at the start... I wonder how many times it's because the person tried to change themselves for the better but fell back into an old habit - who they really are.

It makes me wonder just how much control we actually have over ourselves. Do we make conscious choices to do things differently, and battle against it every day until it goes away, or does it go away on its own, in time, with maturity? Not necessarily maturity as in age, but maturity as in spending so much time in one particular headspace that you grow tired of it. Smoking, for example. People battle the addiction "I must give up smoking, it's killing me". But why did they start, when they knew the risks? Why not stop sooner? Why wait many years to stop? Do they actually make the decision themselves, with the mind, or does it just feel like it's time to stop, one day? I know, people do make the decision to stop. I've done it myself. But why didn't I do it sooner? I wasn't ready to. I didn't think I could manage it back then. What changed in me to stop when I did? Did I make the decision to be stronger, or did it just happen naturally? Perhaps a chain of events and a better mental state coincided nicely with it.

I don't know!

 

[theraab]

If you're not willing to change some things about yourself, then you aren't going to make it long-term in a relationship. I don't mean making a major overhaul to you deepest values, but you have to be willing to change/compromise/give up certain things to make a relationship work - and, honestly, you expect your partner to do the same, whether you admit it or not. My Jackie used to make me shave and get haircuts on a regular basis, and she would throw out any of my clothes that were old or she didn't like - I used to make her curb her spending when we would go out; if we weren't willing to change at all for the other person, we wouldn't have lasted.

To get back to Eve's point, it may help to spruce up your wardrobe/get some exercise/etc., but frankly, the biggest problem I've seen amongst members on this forum is a matter of attitude. I can think of at least half a dozen members whose attitude, and not their looks or job or shyness, is their problem. I understand that a lot of people on here deal with depression, and when you're depressed you dwell on the negative - and that is the first thing you need to change; think about all the positive things you have to offer a potential mate. I would never approach a girl and say, "Hey, I'm balding, have a boring job, no money, and sometimes don't shower on weekends" - if that's not the image you want the world to see, why is that the image you obsess about?

Or, to put this another way, I don't think I've ever met a person (man or woman), who say that they want to find a person with a negative attitude. The negativity wears on people, it brings down the people around them. If you're a negative person, ask yourself, "Am I looking for a person who has a negative attitude toward the world?" If the answer is "no", then why would you expect a potential partner to want that?

While I'm on my high horse, a lot of people, again, both guys and girls, seem to have a problem with posture. It's a minor thing, but it is the difference between someone who looks confident and someone who looks like a sap. If you walk around with your head held high, shoulders back, people will think more highly of you than if you have your shoulders hunched and talk into your chest.

Ultimately, your ability to find and keep something comes down to your ability to answer a very simple question, "Will s/he and I be happier together than apart?" - that means that your partner has to have something about them that will make you happy and you have to have something to offer that will make them happy. If you aren't able to make that other person happier than they are, a relationship will not last because they are better off alone or with someone else - and that means that you had better be willing to change the things that you can.

Sorry this is so long.

 

[Rosebolt]

but frankly, the biggest problem I've seen amongst members on this forum is a matter of attitude.

This.

It's easy to say that people should like you for who you are, since that requires the least effort. When one feels depressed, the focus indeed gets placed on the bad things. One does not feel the need to do anything otherwise deemed productive. What then happens is that people generally prefer to moan about problems instead of fixing them. Either because they don't want to, but, perhaps more often, don't know exactly how to. I am also guilty of this

Then about the change to personality changing. I think there is a distinction which has not been made yet, or one that i have missed while reading. A depressed person is something else than a happy person. I mean that in that when depression kicks in, a person changes, for the worse, obviously. It's like one's brain opens up a black rift sucking up all the positive thoughts, the nostalgic memories, and one's personality.

Depression seems to be a black hole which completely takes over and removes a personality from any given person. Often, depressed people do not have any idea who they actually are. Yes, my name is Rosebolt, but who is that? You catch my drift? People with stronger and more developed personalities are better able to fend off against the black hole that is depression. When depression is gone, people naturally go live on, changing themselves in various positive ways.

Considering the recent trent of gender hate, i think that is also a mere symptom of the blaming game, just like "they should just like me for who i am" and the other classic "the world just sucks."

These are my views.

 

[Masque]

On an interesting note, I used to be a very nasty person. I had poor social skills when I was a teenager so I often said things that were inappropriate or rude, and I met a group of "friends" who thought it was funny and also had very nasty personalities. I began to feel bad when I saw that we were hurting people's feelings, so I worked on changing myself over the years until I met new friends who thought I was nice. The old ones didn't want me when I wouldn't participate in their games, anyway.

I get less attention now from men, women, friends, and romantic interests both online and offline, and often have to put forth more effort. I changed myself for the better, but lost out in terms of people because even someone whose behavior borders on bullying is more noticeable and interesting than the losing combination of someone who tries to be gentle and quiet. The only thing I can say is that what little I have is now genuine and I meet fewer people who aren't genuine, since this is closer to my ideal version of myself than what I was before.

 

[perfanoff]

Closed - not a real question

 

[painter's radio]

On an interesting note, I used to be a very nasty person. I had poor social skills when I was a teenager so I often said things that were inappropriate or rude, and I met a group of "friends" who thought it was funny and also had very nasty personalities. I began to feel bad when I saw that we were hurting people's feelings, so I worked on changing myself over the years until I met new friends who thought I was nice. The old ones didn't want me when I wouldn't participate in their games, anyway.

I get less attention now from men, women, friends, and romantic interests both online and offline, and often have to put forth more effort. I changed myself for the better, but lost out in terms of people because even someone whose behavior borders on bullying is more noticeable and interesting than the losing combination of someone who tries to be gentle and quiet. The only thing I can say is that what little I have is now genuine and I meet fewer people who aren't genuine, since this is closer to my ideal version of myself than what I was before.

Respect. I admire this a lot.

 

[Dissident]

To get back to Eve's point, it may help to spruce up your wardrobe/get some exercise/etc., but frankly, the biggest problem I've seen amongst members on this forum is a matter of attitude.

I can change my attitude to whatever I want and it will never make a bit of difference.

 

[BrokenInside]

I learned about myself from the relationships that didn't work (friends/family/love). It wasn't always the other person's fault, at some point i was unreasonable too. We see ourselves as innocent beings,sufferers, want to be judged by our intentions, sometimes have serious ego issues that complicate the things.
If a change big/small in appearance/attitude can improve a relationship then why not!

 

[Gutted]

I think this sort of thing is sometimes a matter of pride. Whilst some people, as seen on here, will always try to put themselves down, others will always try to big themselves up. Some people don't want to admit to any 'faults' with themselves. So they say believe they should never need to change. I personally think I am always changing for the better. I think everyone can change for the better in some way. As someone else has said, it's also a matter of attitude. Many people develop the wrong kind of attitude toward life. Mind you, people like us are to blame. We inflate ego's with compliments, causing people to think they should never change.

 

[LeaningIntoTheMuse]

Well, to be fair, the areas that I need to work in are pretty dire. So I definitely need to change:

1. My body shape. I am about 50 pounds overweight, and it's all going to my belly. I'm one of those skinny-fat guys, one that you would think was rail thin (at least, according to people who describe me as such), until I take my shirt off. Yeah, there's all that beer belly...I can't get naked with a girl, because I am ashamed of my body. I need to get on the treadmill.
2. My glasses. I need to get better ones. The ones I have are decent, but I could improve my looks by getting an update.
3. My job. I am working on this: I will be co-oping two semesters from now, and graduating next year. But right now, I have no money coming in, and am being financially supported by my mom.

These are the only places I can work in, except for things I can't control, like the fact I am a 30 year old virgin, or that I live with my mom and sister, or that I don't have a car (can't afford one.) Of course, these things would be important to some women, but they shouldn't be important to all.

 

[drr26]

I would like to chage my social habits and my moods

I would also like to be more confident

However this is not likely. I know it's possible but I don't meet anybody so I don't have motivation.

I am sick of trying and getting nowhere no matter what I have done in the past (changes made)

 

[Regumika]

I would like to chage my social habits and my moods

I would also like to be more confident

However this is not likely. I know it's possible but I don't meet anybody so I don't have motivation.

I am sick of trying and getting nowhere no matter what I have done in the past (changes made)

This is kinda different than the change Eve is pointing out. What you listed is too general.

You want to change your mood, okay what are you doing about it? To give one example, exercise. Exercise at the very least helps your body with an increase in healthy blood circulation. This affects your mind and physically to the rest of your body. Exercise also helps you sleep better because your body is more regulated. Eating a balanced diet on top of exercising would increase the effects. By getting better sleep you get a body with more energy and an invigorated mind. Your mood will change. Your chemistry will be slightly different.

--

As someone mentioned, I agree that PRIDE is a huge obstacle in a healthy relationship. For some reason, it is so hard to admit that one has made a mistake.
Back to the OP, since we're talking about change.. I have personally witnessed someone so ingrained with the idea that CHANGE is unacceptable in a relationship. You are allowed to change before and after, but not during. Change was like.. taboo.

I remember a good council. The topic was "Good, better, and best." often times there is nothing wrong with a certain thing, it's not bad.. but why wouldn't you want to improve it from good to best? Others have mentioned bad habits, obviously those should change.. but we should also realize that just because something isn't 'bad' doesn't mean it can't be better. Why settle with YOURSELF with just good? So what if your partner is the one that raised the topic? Does it make a difference? You're not doing it for them, you're doing it for you. Sure it might be their specific preference but does it matter? You want to be a better person. Change is not taboo. Change, for the best. You can change any time you want to. It is not your problem if your current partner can't accept that. If your partner is hindering your from being your best, that person is not worth it.

 

[maybelazy]

Speaking as someone who is always on the self-improvement bandwagon:

I think it's good to always try and be the best version of ourselves we can be. I was (and still am) very introverted and shy but gradually I got better at it by getting to know people.

My tips:
Ask people about themselves - its generally their favorite topic.
Learn people's names

As regards appearance, I've seen a lot of people on this forum very negative about how they look. Here are some things I try and do, which might help.

Posture - stand upright, you'll look more confident
Smile (naturally) - it makes you look your best and you will sound friendlier.
Eat healthier - you will feel better.

And the most important thing:
Love yourself for who you are. Celebrate the things you like about yourself. Don't beat yourself up for things. Easier said than done, I know.


However, I do have a warning to add from my own experience.
When I was 20 I was crazy about a girl and I tried to make myself into the perfect guy for her. The changes I was making weren't for me, they were for her.

If you want to change, change for you, and you alone.

Best of luck

 

[perfanoff]

Let me go on a limb here, stick my tongue out on the whole world and say: "World, you're nowhere near perfect and you don't even want to be so don't even think of expecting me to be perfect. It ain't gonna happen"

The difference here Eve is that I'm not going to cry to anyone or anything if I end up single all my life because simply I can't find a woman who's sufficiently interested in me with my flaws and advantages.

I just wanted to say there's another alternative even though maybe it's not for everyone. But if everyone was maybe not so stuck on being perfect and expecting perfection, there would be much fewer lonely people.

 

[VanillaCreme]

To get back to Eve's point, it may help to spruce up your wardrobe/get some exercise/etc., but frankly, the biggest problem I've seen amongst members on this forum is a matter of attitude.

I can change my attitude to whatever I want and it will never make a bit of difference.

I highly doubt that. Attitude and how you present yourself make a world of a difference. Your attitude on your attitude may hold you back there some though.

Well, to be fair, the areas that I need to work in are pretty dire. So I definitely need to change:

1. My body shape. I am about 50 pounds overweight, and it's all going to my belly. I'm one of those skinny-fat guys, one that you would think was rail thin (at least, according to people who describe me as such), until I take my shirt off. Yeah, there's all that beer belly...I can't get naked with a girl, because I am ashamed of my body. I need to get on the treadmill.
2. My glasses. I need to get better ones. The ones I have are decent, but I could improve my looks by getting an update.
3. My job. I am working on this: I will be co-oping two semesters from now, and graduating next year. But right now, I have no money coming in, and am being financially supported by my mom.

These are the only places I can work in, except for things I can't control, like the fact I am a 30 year old virgin, or that I live with my mom and sister, or that I don't have a car (can't afford one.) Of course, these things would be important to some women, but they shouldn't be important to all.

They're only important if you make them important. I'm fat, and never once has it ever hindered me. Yeah, I'm fat. So what? People need to be about their own business. I also wear glasses (or should, but they make me dizzy now), so glasses don't make a difference really.