Unskewing my View of Relationships

[AFrozenSoul]

So I am in kind of a down mood. So I figure I will go on about something that I thought about... well a week ago.

So a lot of you have seen that I have been posting a generic view on relationships. That view is Relationships equal sex. So I want to be in a relationship because that implies I will get to have sex.

I think this is because of the fact that I am not confident in my ability too meet and seduce females. So I think a good way to unskew my views would be to focus on seducing females and having sex... you know boosting my confidence in that field. I don't know this seems like a great idea since I have a focus on sex. To be honest going the other way of not wanting sex or pretending to not want it seems like a bad idea.

Thoughts? Please move if this is the wrong forum.

 

[Code S.O.L]

If I've got this right, you lack the confidence to meet single females, so your remedy to this is to...... jump straight into the deep end and try meeting them anyways? That in itself takes courage, since most of us fear even getting our feet wet, but unfortunately, this strategy will only end in dissapointment and failure.

Also, your focus is transperent, and easily picked up by females aswell. If you focus on getting laid without the relationship aspect, granted you might get a few one night stands, but mostly the results will be spilt drinks, slapped faces and stillettos to the family jewels. It's impossible to pretend not to wanna get laid around females in that sort of environment. They can pick this up by body language alone, so it's futile to lie about it. It's also gonna result spilt drinks, slapped faces, and stillettos to the nuts, but with even less chance of a one night stand.

If you want a serious relationship, might I suggest you re-evaluate your goals?

 

[AFrozenSoul]

If I've got this right, you lack the confidence to meet single females, so your remedy to this is to...... jump straight into the deep end and try meeting them anyways? That in itself takes courage, since most of us fear even getting our feet wet, but unfortunately, this strategy will only end in dissapointment and failure.

Also, your focus is transperent, and easily picked up by females aswell. If you focus on getting laid without the relationship aspect, granted you might get a few one night stands, but mostly the results will be spilt drinks, slapped faces and stillettos to the family jewels. It's impossible to pretend not to wanna get laid around females in that sort of environment. They can pick this up by body language alone, so it's futile to lie about it. It's also gonna result spilt drinks, slapped faces, and stillettos to the nuts, but with even less chance of a one night stand.

If you want a serious relationship, might I suggest you re-evaluate your goals?

I guess it depends on your definition of "meet single females". I am about 50-50 on meeting females. However, for me that entails holding a conversation and getting their name. I am confident in my ability to get dropped straight into the friend zone because I do not know how to get a female going. There is a reason I used the word seduce.

As for wanting a relationship. I already wrote down why I want the relationship the one soul reason I want one. Love, companionship, all that stuff. I can give that in spades, to them And to myself. Advice on how to handle this?

 

[trZ]

Stop wanting girls
Go out on bars
Talk to people
???
PROFIT

 

[AFrozenSoul]

Stop wanting girls
Go out on bars
Talk to people
???
PROFIT

Please elaborate on good ways to accomplish step one? Other than masterbation or going into hardcore woman hater mode.

 

[Code S.O.L]

Stop wanting girls
Go out on bars
Talk to people
???
PROFIT

Please elaborate on good ways to accomplish step one? Other than masterbation or going into hardcore woman hater mode.

Unfortunately, step 1 takes pure willpower. It can be done, but only after much focus. And even then, there's a price to pay.

 

[PsychoBilli]

I'm thinking that if you already have the skills to land in the "friend zone," as you put it, then you should learn to build on that. Going for the one night stand would take a different tact, which doesn't sound like your style. If you're making friends with girls, then you're earning trust which is important for a lasting relationship.

I've had a situation in the past with a female friend who had seemed to suddenly grow friendlier and start to flirt a little with me. At first it struck me as this sudden shift in behavior. But I have this freakishly good memory, so I went back in my mind's eye looking for something that might have changed. I realized that she had caught me doing things like checking her out, or flirting a little with her. I wasn't going out of my way to do this, I wasn't being excessive about it. In fact, I didn't even realize I was doing it. So when she started returning that it struck me as a sudden change. The reality was that I had been dropping subtle hints for a few weeks, and she slowly caught on and warmed up to the idea.

I think you should just focus more on the friend thing and learn to advance from there. Just because a woman sees you as a friend it doesn't mean she won't consider something more.

 

[trZ]

Mostly I agree with you PsychoBilli, but I don't think being friends with women will work. I think he should practice on getting comfortable in social situations with women, and being able to land in the right zone almost every time. Practicing on being friends with women I would think would be bad. Women aren't attracted to nice guys that are their friends, unfortunately. Yes yes I know this isn't exactly the right place to say this but it is true for extremely many women.

 

[IVIZ]

Dude, your 'sexual desire' is causing you to stumble over yourself when it omes to meeting girls. Nevermind sex, its not truly the main focus, or huh, it shouldn't be. Lay off the pressure and shut down your sexual need to have a clearer mind and perspective to meets a girl. Sex is just like a bonus.

 

[SophiaGrace]

Okay, I think you are looking for a quick fix and unfortunately there are no quick fixes here. The most rewarding and deep relationships I have been in have blossumed out of meaningful friendships. I believe, that it takes time, careing, kindness and loyalty to develop the emotional intimacy required for a healthy romantic relationship to develop.

Guys who are upset about being friend-zoned need to realize that you just weren't her type from the get-go. This has been my experience, so there is no need to get all upset about this.

When the right person comes along, it'll take time. If you remember to care about your friends, be genuinely concerned with their wellfare, and treat them with the respect they deserve, then i guarantee, someone will see the value within you and want more from you than just friendship.

And that, is the secret.

 

[AFrozenSoul]

Unfortunately, step 1 takes pure willpower. It can be done, but only after much focus. And even then, there's a price to pay.

The price is?

I'm thinking that if you already have the skills to land in the "friend zone," as you put it, then you should learn to build on that. Going for the one night stand would take a different tact, which doesn't sound like your style. If you're making friends with girls, then you're earning trust which is important for a lasting relationship.

I've had a situation in the past with a female friend who had seemed to suddenly grow friendlier and start to flirt a little with me. At first it struck me as this sudden shift in behavior. But I have this freakishly good memory, so I went back in my mind's eye looking for something that might have changed. I realized that she had caught me doing things like checking her out, or flirting a little with her. I wasn't going out of my way to do this, I wasn't being excessive about it. In fact, I didn't even realize I was doing it. So when she started returning that it struck me as a sudden change. The reality was that I had been dropping subtle hints for a few weeks, and she slowly caught on and warmed up to the idea.

I think you should just focus more on the friend thing and learn to advance from there. Just because a woman sees you as a friend it doesn't mean she won't consider something more.

Not to swish this too terribly, but how many other females have you had this happen with? I won't deny yes it happened. However, I hear and see plenty of guys who have girls who are their best friends for years. Guys who really like and love these girls. However, the girls suddenly start dating someone else. I have seen a few threads like this on this forum. To be honest you are the first guy who has ever told me a story like that. I hear it from girls from time to time. However, never from guys. One guy told me, on another forum, if you do Not show her the affection she wants she will go to a guy who will. I can give two examples of this happening to me.

Example one falls to my ex, well the girl,I call my ex. Even though I was in an intimate relationship with my ex for three years, I did not really admit what I felt. So when she found a guy who was more open about expressing those feelings, she dropped me. Even though her heart, as she said, was all mine she dated another guy and is no longer in my life

Example two involves a co-worker of mine. I was friendly with her, much like how you were with your mentioned female. Much like you I flirted unconsciously. She flirted back, however, I did not think anything of it. Everyone seemed to know but me. My bosses some of the other co-workers knew it. Couple weeks later she had a different boyfriend, and now they are engaged.

No offense, but there is a reason men and women a like cringe when they hear the term "friend-zone". Friends are a good way to get an in with her other friends. However, it is not a way to get a girl. Besides it is not like I am only looking for one night stands I would be looking for the whole range of different interactions. Short term dating friends with benefits all That stuff.

 

[PsychoBilli]

It was just the one time. It started up maybe within two months after we had met, which means I started dropping the hints very early on. So ideas started turning over in her head before any real relational boundaries were set. That's probably why I never succeeded in pulling it off again.

My point with pursuing friendship, though, is that you've clearly got some successes there. I'm definitely not saying you should try to make friends with a girl thinking you'll hook up with her, I'm just saying it's a starting point. Things don't go in the direction you want because there's things you're doing wrong, or maybe things you're not picking up on. Pursue them as a friend just to get your own bearings. If you solidify in your own mind what it is to become friends then you'll start to figure out how to steer away from that in the beginning, and hopefully steer in a direction you want to go.

In both examples you gave it just sounds like simple inexperience. In both situations the girls were probably putting things out there that you just weren't picking up on. They got frustrated or assumed you didn't care and it bit you in the ass. The way to combat this is more exposure. Spend time with the girls who see you as a friend, and you'll be quicker to spot the ones who see you as something more. They react differently in those situations.

 

[AFrozenSoul]

So not to be a jerk to anyone. I really appreciate the advice. However, just wait is terrible advice. That is how we all want the world to be. However, I do not want to spend my life playing the lotto knowing one day I will win. I have illustrated past failures in previous posts. Reflecting on the past decade of my life I can see that waiting for something to come will not make me happy. I waited for a girl to come to me all through high school and college. When one finally did come after college she decided I hated her because of my mistakes. Where if I had gone out and found another before her I could have made this amateur mistakes and moved on and learned. I learned from this experience yes. However, my mistakes were the mistakes most people make while dating in high school. Yes there are people who find success while Just waiting. However, this forum is proof of the fact that waiting brings the minority of people happiness. Another simple example of how waiting is not always the best answer. I run my own website. When I wait for inspiration to write the website is silent for weeks and even months on end. However, went I sit down and write. Ideas and thoughts slowly come to me as I write. Soon I find that inspiration or tangent to go off of and I write some amazing. I will admit more often than not I write something average. However, my site has activity and people have a reason to come to it. I guess the point of this little rant is to say "just wait" is not good advice in my book. I have been waiting for too long while I watch others go out and look and find their happiness. So please stop telling me to wait. It will get me anywhere. In reality you know it will not get me anywhere as well. Most successful people do not wait for things to happen. The go out and make things happen. Just because I want to make something happen does not mean it is any less meaningful than you who just feel into your success. There is more than one way to find the good apple. Wait for the tree to drop one, shake the tree and see what falls, throw rocks at the apples you think look good or actually climb the tree and inspect the apples while they are on the branches. All of these methods are valid methods. All of these methods will get you the apples you want. All of these methods have their downsides. The question is do I wait for an apple to fall, eat it then wonder when the next apple will fall. Or do I get up there and find the next apple? I do not want to shoot down what brought you your success. It has just not been successful for me. I do not want to look back at my life when I am 40 and say I wasted 20 years waiting for whomever I find. Right now I look back 10 years and see nothing but waste and regret it all. So no more telling me to wait. Patience is a virtue if you already have something going or are not screwed up like me.

@IVIZ: I agree sex is definitely clouding my judgment. However, "shutting off" my desires will only make things worse. I have seen this in many places. The very first being when I first met my ex. When I was in college I did just what you said too do. However, that just damned up those feelings and desires. So when I finally got to release them. Well at first I was calling my ex to come over whenever I could so I could have sex with her. I was always trying to have sex with her. Because I had a lot of dammed up feelings. It was to the point of where she only thought I wanted her for sex. I almost lost my chance with her there. Another good example, at my job I started to get bored of the project I was working on about 2 years ago. However, I denied myself the right to feel bored. six months later I was snapping at the smallest things. Treating people hostilely, getting mad about small requests, so on and so forth. That was my bordem, forcing its way out. When I finally went to my boss and said something, a year later, I noticed I calmed down a bit. Denial will only make things worse.

Something can only be a fun bonus when it is something you are confident in getting. For example hitting a baseball. I know the basics of how to hit baseball. I know I need to watch the ball, I know the motion I should go through to properly swing the bat, I know where the area where I can hit the ball. On occasion I will hit a ground ball, on occasion I will hit a sacrifice fly, on occasion I will hit a line drive or a home-run. I know all of this, now all I have to do is wait for a good pitch and swing the bat. In baseball batting is one of my favorite things to do. It requires precision, quick reflexes, strength, and agility. Each hit feels good and is something to be proud of. It is nice when I hit a home-run, however, if I don't maybe next time as long as I hit the ball. That is how my view my current situation, sex is the hit, love is the home-run. ^_^ can we leave it at each to his own please... as far as why I see things that way now please. It always ends poorly when I get into a discussion like this.

@SophiaGrace: I do not want to say anything... because I think of anything nice to say. I will leave it at that. This goes back to my not wanting to wait any more. Waiting me landed me on this forum, if I was not lonely I would not be here. I will say that I do not see this as a quick fix. I see this taking a minimum of 5 years hun. Slowly building me into a mode where I know what I view a relationship as and the place sex has in it.

@PsychoBill: Sorry friend, I did my best to make this post less angry... but I failed.

I mean this in the nicest possible way, you were not her friend. You sound like a couple of people who were just shy about your feelings and took a bit to get going. If you had known her for 2 months and then 2 months later her attitude changed I would have an easier time believing you. However, you did not you flirted with her and worked your way into a relationship, skipping the friendship step.

Dropping girls into the friend zone because you want to be their friend first is a great way to never have anything but friends. Men, just like women, assume stuff based upon where you put them in their life. I could like a girl, but if I set her in my friend zone, she will take that as I do not like her. Then by the time a friendship is established she will have moved on. Saying "I thought you were into me, but you made me your friend". Guys do the same thing to females. That is why it is called the friend zone. That is why it is feared and hated by men and women a like. This is TERRIBLE advice, lucky for me I can see that. I warn you to STOP GIVING IT OUT NOW!!!! If not the next guy who is stupid enough to take the advice will likely curse your name because he will only have female friends and not a mate.

Riddle me this, how am I supposed to know the signals of someone who is interested if I only make friends? Seriously, I just do not get it friends are friends are friends. If I do not go out and actually flirt and see if I am rejected or not I am not going to learn. Going back to my baseball analogy for IVIZ. Yes I can be around a pitching machine and see balls coming at me. However, if no one tells me what to do other than to look at the ball I will never hit one. Each of the balls will come by as a good pitch and I will just stand there. The only time the ball will make contact with the bat is when my arms get tired and the bat starts to slump into the strike zone. The the inital shock will wake me up a bit but what have I learned? Well the ball hits my bat if I stick it out there. So I leave the bat out let the balls just bounce off of it. Maybe my arms get tired and the bat goes to the ground. Maybe I jerk the bat up at the right time to simulate a hit. Now I know that a swinging motion might send the ball faster however I start missing and I wonder why. You can see where I am going with this. Unless I stay dedicated to this task and only this task within a while I will have it figured out. Same methodology applies to this situation. Given the fact that friendship takes a while to build. Then even longer for feelings to develop provided I accidently do something. Your methodology puts me at a high school level knowledge of this thing when I am 50, 40 if I do nothing but make female friends. Much like with batting a better solution would be to read a book and try stuff in a book or to ask someone for tell tale signs of flirting from my end and hers. Then going out and looking for them and trying to find them or make them occur.

Here is another question, why perfect one step I am already good at. Lets say I want to be in the baseball hall of fame. However, I do not know how to accurately throw the ball. However, I have proven I can bat at 500+. Why keep focusing on batting? I am already good at that. I know I can always be better. However, no team manager is going to give me the time of day if I cannot throw the ball accurately. In order to make it into the hall of fame I have to bat and often. However, if I am terrible at defense, the coach won't play me. If you are not playing you cannot hit, simple baseball rules. You can pitch hit, however, even that has its limits. If I really want to make it into the hall of fame I have to learn how to throw the ball. My hitting might suffer a little. However, likely it will not suffer that much. It will even help me in my position playing defense. I won't stop practicing hitting the ball. After all that is a powerful tool that I have, that is what will win me a place in the hall of fame. Just like my ability to win the trust of a female will make her love me more.

One final question, if someone presented you with this advice would you take it? I know this is a loaded question, I will believe whatever answer you give me. Of course I can assume that you have since given up on this method of finding a girlfriend right?

 

[VanillaCreme]

Dude, your 'sexual desire' is causing you to stumble over yourself when it omes to meeting girls. Nevermind sex, its not truly the main focus, or huh, it shouldn't be. Lay off the pressure and shut down your sexual need to have a clearer mind and perspective to meets a girl. Sex is just like a bonus.

That's one of the greatest things I've ever seen a guy say, or type.

 

[IVIZ]

Dude, your 'sexual desire' is causing you to stumble over yourself when it omes to meeting girls. Nevermind sex, its not truly the main focus, or huh, it shouldn't be. Lay off the pressure and shut down your sexual need to have a clearer mind and perspective to meets a girl. Sex is just like a bonus.

That's one of the greatest things I've ever seen a guy say, or type.

Knowing myself so well, I can truly say, I'm no ordinary guy. And thanks

 

[NeeNeeBird]

Um.. I don't think that's such a good idea.

I think you need to find another way to boost your confidence instead of falsely leading on someone for your own pleasure and your own needs! Not ever woman that will sleep with you as a one-nighter is going to want just that and move on. You'll find yourself in a sticky situation very soon.
And though this might boost your confidence in some way, I really don't think it's going to be in a positive way, as it could potentially train you to be promiscuous and not to enjoy it in any other form - as what are you going to do in a relationship when you have to have sex with one person and you're used to getting your confidence boost through many woman?! Enter neuroplasticity.

HOWEVER,
I'm not against promiscuity at all. I don't think you should be suppressing yourself either. I just think that the way you're thinking about it now has the potentiality of getting bad.

If you're that desperate for sex, consider paying for it (legally of course - if it is in your country), or meeting people off promiscuous dating sites which are designed for people meeting up solely for sex. That way you're not going to run into any mishaps.

Still, I don't think this is going to boost your confidence at all. It may temporarily sure, but just like a drug addict you'll forever be looking for your next hit. All it's going to do is cure your need for sex.

If you want to boost your confidence, start socializing with woman, dating, going out, etc.

 

[PsychoBilli]

Okay, AFrozenSoul, you win. I throw out the advice and it's choice choice to take it or dismiss it, but I might have misjudged where you were at. I'm sorry if I've upset you, it wasn't intended.

 

[SophiaGrace]

@SophiaGrace: I do not want to say anything... because I think of anything nice to say. I will leave it at that. This goes back to my not wanting to wait any more. Waiting me landed me on this forum, if I was not lonely I would not be here. I will say that I do not see this as a quick fix. I see this taking a minimum of 5 years hun. Slowly building me into a mode where I know what I view a relationship as and the place sex has in it.

Well, I just told you how I found my current boyfriend who I love. So...

I'm not just spouting honeysuckle here.

I don't think you understand what I am saying. Emotional Intimacy (friendship) will lead to something else eventually with someone.

 

[trZ]

Stop wanting girls
Go out on bars
Talk to people
???
PROFIT

Please elaborate on good ways to accomplish step one? Other than masterbation or going into hardcore woman hater mode.

Well, you need to get as high up on the ladder that you can, i.e being as cool as possible, good looking as possible etc. When you've done this, you go out and although you can have sleeping with someone in the back of your mind, thats not really the most important thing for you. When you meet someone you're going to be real picky and don't jump on every girl you think you'd get in bed. Bottom line is don't be desperate, but be even more less desperate than that.

 

[AFrozenSoul]

Dude, your 'sexual desire' is causing you to stumble over yourself when it omes to meeting girls. Nevermind sex, its not truly the main focus, or huh, it shouldn't be. Lay off the pressure and shut down your sexual need to have a clearer mind and perspective to meets a girl. Sex is just like a bonus.

That's one of the greatest things I've ever seen a guy say, or type.

Knowing myself so well, I can truly say, I'm no ordinary guy. And thanks

What I precieve the bonus as is different than you guys. I will leave it at that.

@NeeNeeBird: I have confidence, just not in the area I find important. Please read what I wrote to PsychoBilli in my previous post. I do not just intend on going out and having one night stands. I know there is a different mindset and process for that. I do intend to have short term relationships. I really should have worded my first post better.

I think of this more of weight loss plan. If you do the same set of exercises over and over and over again. You will stop seeing the desired results. I intend to approach this similar to how my trainer is approaching my workout plan. Do one night stands for a while. Then short term dating/relationship... and that is as far as I am will to share in public on this forum. Given the violent backlash I have been getting.

>_> seriously why are the females here so closed minded?

@PsychoBilli: Sorry I did not mean to tear into you. I was not too upset just a little annoyed. Used that annoyance to go out and play some Pump It Up and chat up girls.

@SophiaGrace: Actually it won't, are you saying that your boyfriend and you were friends...friends...friends... poof lovers? If so... then you won the lotto and I hope that you can keep it for as long as you can. Otherwise there was a process in which you went through to get there.

I am not saying that you are not right. However, I have a bit of pride. If I met a girl and we become friends, then she dates any of number of guys, then she decides I am worth it. She is settling for me. In my opinion that won't work out. If we are both friends and both single, then yeah I could see that happening. However, your use of the word "eventually" inspires little hope hun. Especially if I flirt with her for a while and she openly rejects me saying "We are friends". Then suddenly poof she wants to be with me? I am sorry to say that is not the kind of relationship I want. Those are the kinds of relationships that lead low self-esteem, cheating, and lack of intimacy. I would rather pick up a stranger and start a relationship with her, and end it within 3 months. Rather then spend time crawling into her harem of potential suitors. Playing the role of a friend until she feels that she is ready for me. She can have me when I am ready to settle for her. That will all fall into my standards for the kind of female I want. Standard number 1, I want a female who is willing to risk being alone for a chance at being happy. A girl who plants me in her friend garden to pick at a later time, provided I grow to term, is not the kind of girl I want.

@trZ: Ah so become a narsassist? Trust me I do not have low standards friend. I am not planning on having sex with anything that has a vagina like my dad.