Why can’t I get along with women?

[hazel_flagg]

Eight pages and not one of you has come close to stumbling upon the truth....

It's simple!

Women are always right. Men are always wrong.

You may now close the thread.

I knew I liked you for a reason!

 

[ardour]

Nothing's changed here; last training session today and she runs ahead, even the girl she's friendly with here was wondering what the hell was going on, takes the stairs again just so that she can get to a seat where she can be sure I won't be sitting near. How much do you have to hate someone to act like this.. it's not like I intended to sit near her or have bothered her. And it seems like she might *not* be leaving in November, so I've got to work around this person in perpetuity.

 

[Pike Creek]

Disclaimer; a lot of members who are familiar with me aren't likely to have much patience for this; please pass if you’ve heard enough whining on the topic…

So up until recently I was getting along well enough with the new person in this office. Last Friday after work I asked her about her boyfriend (a 31 year old Math lecturer) and a few other things and she seemed really eager to talk, we had this long conversation. On Monday she asked about my Weekend right in the middle of work hours. The next couple of days things were rather cooler, no hello's or goodbyes, kind of weird but as we're concentrating on work I thought nothing of it. No one smiles or acts friendly all the time. But this morning when we got up to leave for a last training session, she looks straight at me, face drops, and rushes off ahead like she’s trying to avoid walking with me. Upon reaching the next building she took the stairs instead of the lift, I can only assume because she didn't want to take the same lift as me. So obnoxious.

Why bother starting a thread about this... why should this matter. Well variations of this story have happened many times over the last few years, my whole life really – I get along with a female acquaintance for a time, then suddenly and without warning it ends and I'm left thinking there’s something seriously wrong with the way I interact with women. Literally like my body language and expressions produce a visceral dislike. I've not grown resigned to it yet, even at 35, if anything it hits harder each time as further re-enforcement for self-loathing. Never assaulted or harassed women yet I feel like that sort of person now. It’s even affecting sleep and the ability to concentrate on coursework. There's a long assignment to write this weekend but so far all I can think about is this morning.

There are anxiety problems. Extreme awkwardness. When it gets particularly bad I'm inclined to either seek validation to feel better or shy away from socializing. This usually means being too eager to talk, often semi-coherently when there's little to say, or cold and avoidant. It's a problem and women are so much more sensitive, so intuitively attuned to anything ‘not right’ about a person.

There are no problems with other guys however, they don't care if I'm anxious at times, it doesn't matter to them. But women do not react well so I'm thinking of limiting all friendships around work to men just for sanity's sake. The women I consistently get along with are those 10+ years my senior like middle-aged colleagues, and an Aunt.

Will another topic really help? No, it's merely here to vent

I would be interesting if the more understanding women on this forum could have a Skype conversation with me and point out what’s “wrong”, because I’ve absolutely had it. Edit; not sure if that's actually a good idea.

I didn't read the replies, and I'm new here so I don't know your history. But I can offer a similar experience. A guy at my office was nice to me, started to chat etc...I thought he was harmless, obviously shy and anxious but that's normal...I don't think people care too much about a person being anxious. At work, things remain at work, so I never try to get too personal. He started to ask me personal questions and it made me a little uncomfortable, so I started to avoid him a little and just act too busy to talk, but I still always said hello. But then it turned into full blown anger towards him because every time I looked up, I caught him staring at me then looking away...gosh it made me uncomfortable, so I ended up asking my boss to put up a partition. People do pick up on mannerisms very easily, especially in an office where you spend so much time confined in the same space with people. It's an experience that made me want to take the stairs instead of sharing an elevator with him.

 

[ardour]

I didn't read the replies, and I'm new here so I don't know your history. But I can offer a similar experience. A guy at my office was nice to me, started to chat etc...I thought he was harmless, obviously shy and anxious but that's normal...I don't think people care too much about a person being anxious. At work, things remain at work, so I never try to get too personal. He started to ask me personal questions and it made me a little uncomfortable, so I started to avoid him a little and just act too busy to talk, but I still always said hello. But then it turned into full blown anger towards him because every time I looked up, I caught him staring at me then looking away...gosh it made me uncomfortable, so I ended up asking my boss to put up a partition. People do pick up on mannerisms very easily, especially in an office where you spend so much time confined in the same space with people. It's an experience that made me want to take the stairs instead of sharing an elevator with him.

If someone's continually staring it's an understandable reaction. I've tried not to look in her direction, and I've seen her staring... but more out of contempt. You say there's nothing wrong with shy and anxious, yet mention it as if it were a factor.

It's interesting how there's so much wariness in offices where men are considered harassment threats, yet in social gatherings and other non-work situations with unfamiliar people this isn't so. Granted if someone turns out to be a problem you can't get away from them, but on the other hand suspicion creates a miserable tense sort of atmosphere. What's considered personal differs from person to person. If I asked you what you studied, what your plans are career-wise, or your weekend, I wouldn't consider that personal but some might not be comfortable with that.

 

[LonelySutton]

It's interesting how there's so much wariness in offices where men are considered harassment threats, yet in social gatherings and other non-work situations with unfamiliar people this isn't so.

I think perhaps it is the fact not only that they can't get away but also the reputation of it... you don't want to be "that person" who had the crazy stalker (because as a girl you will be judged for it) or have to talk to your HR person. You just don't wanna. In someways also it can be more stressful. Out at a bar the person is probably going to take his shot, but in work it can go on for years... with small inappropriate things being said -- and you are always on the verge of wanting to bring it up and say no, but you can't, but still you know there is an issue that you just get stuck with every day. People freak out because they need to bring it to a head.

But that said, I think things have gone crazy the wrong way. I am pretty laid back about this at work. But several friends I thought were crazy, going to their boss because some old guy patted them on the arm. Geeze, he probably was just trying to be nice.

I agree it puts a lot of pressure on everyone needlessly.

 

[Pike Creek]

You say there's nothing wrong with shy and anxious, yet mention it as if it were a factor.

I mentioned it because this is from your first post and I was addressing it:

"There are anxiety problems. Extreme awkwardness. When it gets particularly bad I'm inclined to either seek validation to feel better or shy away from socializing."

I think it's easier to get personal in social situations with unfamiliar people because there is a possibility you'll never interact with them again if you change your mind and not want to get to know them after all. If that happens at an office, it does indeed become awkward for both parties. Plus like you said, you can't predict what one person considers too personal compared to another. That's why for me, I keep it always at a professional level to avoid such circumstances. It's hard to do that though because one normally spends more time at work than at home or out with friends.

 

[ardour]

I think it's easier to get personal in social situations with unfamiliar people because there is a possibility you'll never interact with them again if you change your mind and not want to get to know them after all. If that happens at an office, it does indeed become awkward for both parties. Plus like you said, you can't predict what one person considers too personal compared to another. That's why for me, I keep it always at a professional level to avoid such circumstances. It's hard to do that though because one normally spends more time at work than at home or out with friends.

sound rationale, but depressing. I'm glad not everyone thinks this..

 

[SofiasMami]

You know, ardour, I've read a lot of your posts and you really aren't such a bad guy. You seem insightful & sincere. Without knowing you offline, though, it's hard to say why you have problems getting along with women.
I'm just curious whether you have male friends?
Perhaps the anxiety you mentioned gets in the way when you're around women. I know it does for me in social situations at work (and with men, too, maybe that's why I'm single ).
Here's to hoping you'll get some answers sooner rather than later to your questions on getting along with women.

-Teresa

 

[ardour]

You know, ardour, I've read a lot of your posts and you really aren't such a bad guy. You seem insightful & sincere. Without knowing you offline, though, it's hard to say why you have problems getting along with women.
I'm just curious whether you have male friends?
Perhaps the anxiety you mentioned gets in the way when you're around women. I know it does for me in social situations at work (and with men, too, maybe that's why I'm single ).
Here's to hoping you'll get some answers sooner rather than later to your questions on getting along with women.

-Teresa

I have a few male friends, maybe 2-3 of them good friends. It's easy to present myself in the desired way online. At this point I probably need something other than charitable words, some hard to take explanations that aren't going to make me feel good. Women have frequently thought of me as a creep, or unintelligent, not worth knowing; I could sort of see why at the time, being anxious and lacking social skills. I'm sure they sensed bitterness too, it being another reason to avoid me.

 

[ardour]

two weeks left until this weird, possibly bipolar person leaves. Over the past couple of months she'd been getting progressively friendlier and seemed to want something from me, so I end up asking about her overseas plans, and what ensues is another incredibly awkward conversation. I try my best to be friendly and relaxed but it just isn't happening , I couldn't forget her previous behaviour, the hatred, the contempt from her. Afterward things just return to the way they were, except worse and now I hear her saying "yuk" etc. under her breath when I pass by, and leaving the room again when I have to stack issues in front of her desk (I didn't decide the layout of the office!) She's been taking her breaks at the same time, but acts like she's watching me in case I try and speak to her in the break room - why not just take them at some other time for heaven's sake??

I don't want to say an awkward goodbye to this person, and since I will have to take leave to finish an assignment on her last day I'm thinking of no goodbyes, but then that might look bad in front of the other coworkers. Seems as if she's been saying all manner of derogatory and nasty things about me to her boyfriend.

 

[Triple Bogey]

two weeks left until this weird, possibly bipolar person leaves. Over the past couple of months she'd been getting progressively friendlier and seemed to want something from me, so I end up asking about her overseas plans, and what ensues is another incredibly awkward conversation. I try my best to be friendly and relaxed but it just isn't happening , I couldn't forget her previous behaviour, the hatred, the contempt from her. Afterward things just return to the way they were, except worse and now I hear her saying "yuk" etc. under her breath when I pass by, and leaving the room again when I have to stack issues in front of her desk (I didn't decide the layout of the office!) She's been taking her breaks at the same time, but acts like she's watching me in case I try and speak to her in the break room - why not just take them at some other time for heaven's sake??

I don't want to say an awkward goodbye to this person, and since I will have to take leave to finish an assignment on her last day I'm thinking of no goodbyes, but then that might look bad in front of the other coworkers. Seems as if she's been saying all manner of derogatory and nasty things about me to her boyfriend.

she sounds very troubled and downright nasty.
I wouldn't bother talking to her again, even saying goodbye.

 

[VanillaCreme]

two weeks left until this weird, possibly bipolar person leaves. Over the past couple of months she'd been getting progressively friendlier and seemed to want something from me, . . .

Friendly equals wanting something from someone? Why did she have to want something from you? Did she tell you that she wanted something from you?

 

[ardour]

two weeks left until this weird, possibly bipolar person leaves. Over the past couple of months she'd been getting progressively friendlier and seemed to want something from me, . . .

Friendly equals wanting something from someone? Why did she have to want something from you? Did she tell you that she wanted something from you?

Staring when I wasn’t looking, smiling, saying hello, asking work related queries that weren’t really necessary, mentioning me in non-work related conversations that I could overhear. As if she wanted to establish a more friendly atmosphere between us (me to reciprocate.) My Aunt seems to think she’s a narcissist who plays games. What did you think I meant?

 

[Rainbows]

I myself don't get along with women either, ardour. It's okay, we can start a club.

 

[VanillaCreme]

two weeks left until this weird, possibly bipolar person leaves. Over the past couple of months she'd been getting progressively friendlier and seemed to want something from me, . . .

Friendly equals wanting something from someone? Why did she have to want something from you? Did she tell you that she wanted something from you?

Staring when I wasn’t looking, smiling, saying hello, asking work related queries that weren’t really necessary, mentioning me in non-work related conversations that I could overhear. As if she wanted me to establish a more friendly atmosphere between us (me to reciprocate.) My Aunt seems to think she’s a narcissist who plays games. What did you think I meant?

I guess I'd have to actually see and hear this behavior. Because I don't know. I'd ignore her. Be about my day without giving her a second thought.

 

[Alma lost her spoon]

I myself don't get along with women either,

**** I thought we had something!

 

[ardour]

I guess I'd have to actually see and hear this behavior. Because I don't know. I'd ignore her. Be about my day without giving her a second thought.

…rather than simply accept my account of it. I did ignore her, for months. I should have just kept on that way.

 

[VanillaCreme]

I guess I'd have to actually see and hear this behavior. Because I don't know. I'd ignore her. Be about my day without giving her a second thought.

…rather than simply accept my account of it. I did ignore her, for months. I should have just kept on that way.

It's not that I don't believe you. It's not even about that. I think you're reading my posts with a bit of an attitude, but there is none, and I have no negative attitude while writing these. It's just baffles me that someone would act this way.

I said I'd have to see it myself so I could determine things in her actions more clearly. If I saw it, I could actually read her body language. Perhaps pick up on something you might be missing. My apologizes if it sounded like I was calling you a liar; That was not my intention. It's just better to experience some things first hand, that way I'd have a better understand on what was going on.

 

[SofiasMami]

ardour,
I read through this thread again to see if I missed something. You are paranoid about this woman's behavior and you are either misconstruing her behavior or, if she is truly behaving negatively, you are eliciting this with what I can only guess is unfriendly behavior.
For Pete's sake, sometimes people, including women, are friendly only for the sake of being friendly, with no end goal in mind including filing a harassment suit, fulfilling narcissistic tendencies, being your best friend, being a lunch partner, being your bed buddy or being your girlfriend.
Sometimes a hello is just a hello. Until it's clear otherwise, you need to see every friendly overture that way. Your posts lead me to think that you must look within yourself for an answer as you are the start point of your issues.

-Teresa

 

[ardour]

ardour,
I read through this thread again to see if I missed something. You are paranoid about this woman's behavior and you are either misconstruing her behavior or, if she is truly behaving negatively, you are eliciting this with what I can only guess is unfriendly behavior.
For Pete's sake, sometimes people, including women, are friendly only for the sake of being friendly, with no end goal in mind including filing a harassment suit, fulfilling narcissistic tendencies, being your best friend, being a lunch partner, being your bed buddy or being your girlfriend.
Sometimes a hello is just a hello. Until it's clear otherwise, you need to see every friendly overture that way. Your posts lead me to think that you must look within yourself for an answer as you are the start point of your issues.

-Teresa

This is probably said with good intentions even though you've outright stated the issues are mine alone. I don't expect anything from her except perhaps basic consideration for me as a human being and consistency. I'm also confused as to why some women behave this way and wanted pointers on what I could do to change my possibly problem personal manner so it wasn't as likely to happen again - but that doesn't mean this is 'all on me', thanks.