The Nice Guy Curse

I have gone through the notion that women want to be with ********. I have also become aware that this is not true most of the time, they are with them because they either have problems themselves and got into a controlling relationship and now can't get out. I have many theories why someone wouldn't just leave a bad relationship, but mostly it boils down to confidence. The guy started out a good guy, with lots of confidence, then later turned into the monster he really was the whole time. Someone with confidence can definitely get the upper hand on someone that doesn't. My concern is that the ******** of the world that come off as good at first, are ruining the dating pool for the genuine nice guys. That and the fact that we live in a world where sex rules, and courting is pretty much dead. Is it possible to find anyone that still believes in what seems to be outdated philosophies, and old world values? Were talking chivalry, courting, and honest, trusting, and long lasting true love.

Fustar said:

Is it possible to find anyone that still believes in what seems to be outdated philosophies, and old world values? Were talking chivalry, courting, and honest, trusting, and long lasting true love.

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I surely would like to believe it still is, there are a lot of good people in the world with those same values. I realize this will sound cliche, but 'keep looking' is honestly the best advice I can offer.

Fustar said:

Is it possible to find anyone that still believes in what seems to be outdated philosophies, and old world values? Were talking chivalry, courting, and honest, trusting, and long lasting true love.

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They were talking on CNN about this cause of the Weiner scandals. I didn't pay attention cause it's too depressing to me. But I believe people have moved to a age where there is no long term relationships or true connections. Everything is too short term for people today. Try having a conversation with someone these days. If it can't be fit in a 1 line text then your message gets ignored.

I wish we were still in the days of arranged marriages.

You're right, not all women date ********.

I don't think those ******* men have confidence at all. As a woman that has dated an ******* I can say that they very much lack confidence. It's why they feel the need to control the relationship. They have no control over anything in their life so they seek a woman that is weak. They use that weakness to make women love them. It's not real love, more neediness. If they really did have confidence they would never need to stoop as low as being a controlling ******* to keep a partner around. Ever notice how all those needy people jump from one relationship to another pretty much constantly? They feed off that negetivity. Both the men and the women.

I wish chivalry wasn't dead. I wish men knew how to approach a woman with respect. But, sadly, it seems a lot of men these days don't. And too many women are willing to settle for it. I try to hold out faith that I meet one of these respectful men. I have very old school values and that makes me a minority these days.

maybe we are going a bit further back than the days of chivalry.. and right back to our roots to the caveman paradigm.
I don't think women are not attracted to ******** at all.. it's the dominating, aggressive hunter/protector that gets noticed.
good guy's can do very well with the ladies.. as long as he is built like an athlete or can hold court over a crowd and exudes leadership characteristics.

also another factor is timing. at certain stages in a girls life, she may want the "one night stand". that crazy party guy that offers a good time and nothing but sexual attraction. those types of guys usually don't make the cut though when it's time to look for a life mate. which is why I think you may see some middle-age and older couples where you may wonder: ****, why is she with him? she's built like a model and he's built like a couch potato!
that's because she is past the stage in her life where physical qualities aren't as important as they once were.

and most importantly we cannot ever forget that women are not all the same.. anymore than any other natural phenomenon!
so this generalization is just an explanation of those that fit into this category.

if no women liked nice guy's.. then how did I ever get married?

All good points so far. Women are not all the same, and nothing can be generalized about relationships. However I feel as if values are shifting in a bad direction.

organicNYgirl said:

You're right, not all women date ********.

I don't think those ******* men have confidence at all. As a woman that has dated an ******* I can say that they very much lack confidence. It's why they feel the need to control the relationship. They have no control over anything in their life so they seek a woman that is weak. They use that weakness to make women love them. It's not real love, more neediness. If they really did have confidence they would never need to stoop as low as being a controlling ******* to keep a partner around. Ever notice how all those needy people jump from one relationship to another pretty much constantly? They feed off that negetivity. Both the men and the women.

I wish chivalry wasn't dead. I wish men knew how to approach a woman with respect. But, sadly, it seems a lot of men these days don't. And too many women are willing to settle for it. I try to hold out faith that I meet one of these respectful men. I have very old school values and that makes me a minority these days.

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Same with me. I'm old school when it comes to dating. I still believe in picking up the tab, holding the door, always offer your coat if it's chilly, etc.

Iceman1978 said:

Same with me. I'm old school when it comes to dating. I still believe in picking up the tab

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I've had multiple women I have gone out with get upset with me for paying the tab for the first date.
I really just have no clue what it is women want. Even when I do something nice, it pisses them off.

Its the fact that those old world values are outdated, society has told us its wrong to treat women like this. Paying for a date is chauvinistic and not treating women as equals. However its just something that seems like the right thing to do. I don't understand the world, I grew up and didn't understand why the way I was raised made me an outcast, or at least different.

Fustar said:

All good points so far. Women are not all the same, and nothing can be generalized about relationships. However I feel as if values are shifting in a bad direction.

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I hold the entertainment and music industry responsible for much of this type of behavior. It's appalling the way women are portrayed in today's music videos, just to give an example.

Then there's the fashion industry. Marilyn Monroe, arguably one of the most beautiful women of her generation, wore a size 12 dress and would be considered overweight by today's standards. Today they've set such an unrealistic expectation that a woman needs to look malnourished in order to be considered "thin."

Daniela Bianchi was always, and still is, my favorite. She played Tatiana Romanova in From Russia with Love. She's one of those women that exudes class. I guess I'm just old school. I find it saddening that not only are there so many men of my generation who don't know how to act like a gentleman, but there's also a lot of women who don't know how to act like a lady.



Then there's the cesspool known as reality TV. It appears that all one has to do to become popular is get drunk, post explicit videos of themselves on the internet, forget they have a brain, and basically reduce themselves to the lowest common denominator.

Fustar said:

Its the fact that those old world values are outdated, society has told us its wrong to treat women like this. Paying for a date is chauvinistic and not treating women as equals. However its just something that seems like the right thing to do. I don't understand the world, I grew up and didn't understand why the way I was raised made me an outcast, or at least different.

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I know exactly what you mean, I am exactly the same view on this but on the dates I've had in the past I've always split the cost 50/50 and they have always been happy and comfortable with this. Also, I would buy them flowers before I met them so it felt like I was doing something 'solely' for them and being a gentleman and again, they never had any complaints with that. But I guess we are all different. I don't think guys like us should ever give up or sell out on ourselves, rather, I think its finding new methods of doing things. They don't like a guy paying the full tab? its fine just aslong as I bought them flowers before the date. That way I don't feel I've sold out on myself and my own values.

blackdot said:

Iceman1978 said:

Same with me. I'm old school when it comes to dating. I still believe in picking up the tab

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I've had multiple women I have gone out with get upset with me for paying the tab for the first date.
I really just have no clue what it is women want. Even when I do something nice, it pisses them off.

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Really?? They get upset because you insist on paying?

While I offer to split the tab if a man is hell bent on paying I'm ok with it. However, from a womans pov I've had men pick up the tab and then act as if I owe them something. On a first date?! That's crazy. Personally I think it's why a lot of women choose to split the bill. We're labeled all kinds of awful things when we don't put out bc a man feels we owe him. But we're also labeled if we do put out, so it's a double edged sword. I appreciate a man that holds my door open, pushes in my chair, offers his coat and uses respectful language on a date.

Fustar said:

Its the fact that those old world values are outdated, society has told us its wrong to treat women like this. Paying for a date is chauvinistic and not treating women as equals. However its just something that seems like the right thing to do. I don't understand the world, I grew up and didn't understand why the way I was raised made me an outcast, or at least different.

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It's how I was raised too. Here are the rules my father taught me when it came to dating.

1) Never, ever honk the horn when you pull up to the house. It doesn't matter if it's the first date or the hundredth.

2) If it's a first date, a holiday, or special occasion; always bring flowers.

3) Introduce yourself to her parents.

4) Open the car door, hold the door for the restaurant or theater.

5) Always pick up the tab.

6) Let her pick the radio station.

Just to name a few.

Iceman, I like #6 your dad is a wise man

organicNYgirl said:

While I offer to split the tab if a man is hell bent on paying I'm ok with it. However, from a womans pov I've had men pick up the tab and then act as if I owe them something. On a first date?! That's crazy. Personally I think it's why a lot of women choose to split the bill. We're labeled all kinds of awful things when we don't put out bc a man feels we owe him. But we're also labeled if we do put out, so it's a double edged sword. I appreciate a man that holds my door open, pushes in my chair, offers his coat and uses respectful language on a date.

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A man should do those things because it's what a gentleman does, not because he expects something in return. If he acts that way after a first date, then it should also be the last.

organicNYgirl said:

While I offer to split the tab if a man is hell bent on paying I'm ok with it. However, from a womans pov I've had men pick up the tab and then act as if I owe them something. On a first date?! That's crazy. Personally I think it's why a lot of women choose to split the bill. We're labeled all kinds of awful things when we don't put out bc a man feels we owe him. But we're also labeled if we do put out, so it's a double edged sword. I appreciate a man that holds my door open, pushes in my chair, offers his coat and uses respectful language on a date.

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If a man pays for the date, then thinks you owe him something, he doesn't deserve anything at all. In fact if time machines were real that would be the date to erase entirely.

I agree guys. I wish more men did. Maybe you two should hook up and start holding some classes on how to be gentleman

Iceman1978 said:

I find it saddening that not only are there so many men of my generation who don't know how to act like a gentleman, but there's also a lot of women who don't know how to act like a lady.

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+1

blackdot said:

Iceman1978 said:

Same with me. I'm old school when it comes to dating. I still believe in picking up the tab

Click to expand...

I've had multiple women I have gone out with get upset with me for paying the tab for the first date.
I really just have no clue what it is women want. Even when I do something nice, it pisses them off.

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ask them first before you pay. Suggest 50 /50. See what they say.