A fresh Dialectical approach?

[AaronAgassi]

Michael: Have I dismissed a friend of yours, or do you mean that someone else has dismissed me? I certainly hope that I have done no such injustice, and, since I take it that you where referring to this thread particularly, if you mean that Robin is dismissive, well I'd say he's not nasty so much as Post Modern and repetitively gainsaying! Robin seems to be convinced that all obstacles of loneliness are purely emotional, and cannot wrap his head around any approach to problems seen as occurring in the outside world. But I tend not construe his view however obdurate, as a personal attack. And as for others who actually have been so hostile on this forum more broadly, well, it's a shame. Too bad.

As for the success thread, do recall that I got sucked into such strife only for asking a simple question about something that was unclear to me.

 

[michael in glasgow]

Well, so much for making my final post
No doubt I'll soon have a reputation as a drama queen, always flouncing off.

@ Mimizu- Yes, you are correct.

Aaron
Michael: Have I dismissed a friend of yours, or do you mean that someone else has dismissed me?

I mean both. You are constantly dismissed but i believe the ability to change that lies in your own hands. As Simmias I tried to suggest that people respond best to people who seem to have a human rather than purely intellectual interest in helping them. It's a balance which boils down to "People like people who like people". I stand by that

But my best friend, a better friend than I have ever had in my life, started a post where she bravely described the difference this site had made to her life. The change would be apparent to anyone who read through her previous posts. She gave some detail and some advice and I could and would have added to the practical side of what happened. She made a direct request that the thread be used for one purpose, to share success stories. Is it to much for people, and NOT just you, to respect that wish? This board is limitless and there is no need to divert threads. The PM system is an ideal way to seek clarification if one has questions. Who knows, we may even make friends that way.

if you mean that Robin is dismissive, well I'd say he's not nasty so much as Post Modern and repetitively gainsaying! Robin seems to be convinced that all obstacles of loneliness are purely emotional, and cannot wrap his head around any approach to problems seen as occurring in the outside world.

I find Robin, like yourself, to have other's interests at heart. No matter what method you both use, and they could not be more different, I appreciate that both your posts contain a level of concern and helpfulness not often seen nowadays. Attacking each other, or debating if you will, can be done through PM or in an appropriate thread, like the one in front of us. Surely you must admit the possibility exists of a more perfect approach being found through a synthesis of the emotional and the rational? Either on its own is not enough, to my mind.

. And as for others who actually have been so hostile on this forum more broadly, well, it's a shame. Too bad.


Agreed. Robin does not fit into this category. You should consider working together. We can all learn from the successes and failures of others. Despite myself I have a fondness for both of you and I always read the posts you both make. I can't say that about too many here.


As for the success thread, do recall that I got sucked into such strife only for asking a simple question about something that was unclear to me.

Try not to become sucked in to pointless discussions. A quick PM or new thread could have sorted it out gracefully. Rather we are left with a ruined thread that I, for one, had a great personal interest in.

 

[AaronAgassi]

Disagreement and incomprehension or misunderstanding are the normal human condition, and pursuit thereof is nothing to conceal via privacy, but rightly the very soul of public discourse.

 

[michael in glasgow]

Shouldn't the discourse be held in an appropriate place. Would one carry on an argument at a wedding or funeral, for example?

 

[AaronAgassi]

Pep ralies bother me.

 

[lonely2beeme]

Disagreement and incomprehension or misunderstanding are the normal human condition, and pursuit thereof is nothing to conceal via privacy, but rightly the very soul of public discourse.

aaron and that response right there is your downfall on these forums you are just too stubborn to even take the advise of someone coming to your rescue and trying to smooth the way for you .

robin , lonely girl and myself included d not hate you w are very simply terriably aggravated and annoyed at your insistance to do it only your way .

disagreements should not be public discourse since that thread was about sucess that seems to be something you dont seem to understand , you often took threads of mine when i came here and made them your own .you dont seem to understand boundaries and what should be private or public discourse ,when mommy and daddy argue should they do it at home behind closed doors or in the restaurant in front of the kids and whole town ???? its as simple as that .

only reason i raised to the bait in the other thread is that ele made it about here sucess stories , i tried to add mine and answer you simply at 1st but your response caused a reaction in lonelygirl then robin and finally well since the thread was ruined it was time someone stand up to you and tell you when enough is enough , we are all tired of our threads being taken over in your campaigns to promote your ideas and websites .

as far as micheal goes your lucky he was nice enough to do it but either way it was staged , sockpuppet or not he played the part of your sockpuppet ,it was obviously and painfully staged for your sole benefit to decieve others which is what i didnt like ,it was dishonest so its not that he was wrongly accused i just pointed out something wasent right about it all but at least your not schizo cause i was seriously worried about you there for a minute,glad its just your personality and not mental illhealth

tho you two may enjoy such talk im telling you it frustrates the rest of the community , we all know that you may have the intellect but you have to learn to speak to the natives , because it is much easier to llower your level of vocabulary to make friends here than to demand all of us suddenly gain 20 IQ points or grow a dictionary atached to our arm just to have a conversation with you.when i teach basic english english conversation to children here in japan , i get down to "this is a pen" level but you know what we still end up talking and haveing fun , you could too. but if i start useing words they dont understand they sit there stare blankely and get bored and that is what happens to you .

we are only hostile when we feel threatened if you find members on this forum being hostile to you , thenlook inside yourself to why that may be and make amends or get use to it cause its a two way street .

the rest of us get along here except guests and people useing fake names ,it causes problems .........but aaron you should try loosening up a lil ,your screwed on too tight. and take your friennds advise use the pm system thats what its for and you would ruin alot less threads and piss off alot less people if you could use it no one likes public humiliation including yourself it seems

not sure whether you will take this as hostile again it isnt like i said
im feeling happy , i just dont put up with crap anymore and i dont let it bther me anymore life is easier , but i still care and thats why i said this

 

[want2bhapy]

Pep ralies bother me.

I am not a fan of pep rallies either however, unlike in high school you have free will not to attend. I may have skipped a few in high school as well. You should not only analyze your tribulations but also your successes. There is more to learn in this life than is possible and you can choose to abstain from any learning that wish.

You should be cautious not trample someone on a different path

Harm none, do as you will.

 

[michael in glasgow]

Lonely2beeme,

First of all let me say Hi. I have never spoken to you but I have obviosly read your posts here over the months. It's strange the way you can feel you know someone a bit but I guess that's inevitable in a place like this.

Now, as to your points: I agree wth much of what you are saying but I would like to clear up a couple of things, if that's ok

1. It was not kindness that made me do this. I genuinely believe the method Aaron is aiming for is one that works. I sorted out my problems internally without the benefit of another to talk it over. Only recently have I found that.

2. Language. One of the reasons I adopted a new screen name is that I was talking in a type of language I never use in real life. But for this thread it seemed appropriate. I would prefer though, if I had lowered the level a bit. Point taken
But do people complain about it when others use Lol and other abbreviations? Have I ever criticised people's spelling or grammar? The language we use varies depending on what we are intending to do and sometimes more fancy language just seems right. Saying that, though, the attempt failed partly because I was not capable of fitting the mould for the high level Socratic discussion.


3. I have posted nowhere else on this board under the name Simmias. Simmias was one of the people in the original Socratic dialogues and I thought it would be appropriate for this thread.
The thread is entitled " A fresh Dialectical approach?" so it was always obviously not a general chit chat thread. No-one had asked a question or shared anything so I did not intrude on anyone's personal feelings.

4. Real names? C'mon now! I have given my name and the city I live in. Is taking Simmias for one purpose any worse than the majority of members here who give nothing away about themselves? I know you have posted photos and location details so I don't mean you when I say this, but I am not the only person to remain anonymous. And when the accusation arose I came straight forward and admitted it. I have never posted as a guest or in any other thread where I didn't let people know exactly who I was.

5. This kind of debate was a one off I wanted to see tried. I haven't spoken like this in any of my "real" posts. If I have had nothing helpful to say I have said nothing.

But, as I said, I'm more or less done with this site now, though I seem to be here for the day

And how are you feeling in hospital anyway? I hope you make a full and quick recovery.

 

[lonely2beeme]

thanks micheal im feling much better altho i have 2 more surgeries before i am done
it is a long and painful process because several things are wrong if could do it again
i would do things differently healthwise. but all in all i am feeling much better =))



WARNING 1 am here and i am exhausted so my grammer and spelling is worse than ever you will have to struggle but i really have to sleep now i have a consult at 8 am nite


as far as ur points go they are preety simple i get what ur saying but in regards to

1i cant understand wh you would do i if not kindness but thats your choice
i dont know what this system is but i myself am also doing very much better and all my own
also without the benefit of even relatives or anyone to talk it over with , i researched on the internet day and night and made phone calls and lists and work my way threw it all until i had narrowed it down to a few choices
then i considered all the factors including abilities ,age ,health , children , money and from there i finally made my decision as to what to do to mprove my situation .i did this dureing the absense that i wasent posting on forums i only returned when i was somewhat happy in my decisions just for the company and not for the advise
i found that seeking advise had only served to frustrate me or give me a temp bandage on the problem.

2 i can undersatnd now the language altho it was just a eerie aaron impression i can understand wanting to have that kind of discussion just i think its confusing here , and for the lol and computer slang i use it myself all too much but the difference is even circus monkeys can understand lol the problem with aarons language is he makes it almost impossiable for us to interact with him without us putting a extream amount of effort and time into figureing out what he aid if we can ,its not like he is speaking a foriegn language and yet he might as well be , by the way robin impressed me with keeping up with the topic , he is not even a natural english speaker he is swedish , i have lived in japan for the last 20 years not all of us can understand what aaron says and when aaron does this he alienates himself , he seems to be trying to belittle us by not lowering it a notch , no one says he should lol or write without puncutation like myself
just lower the level enough that we could join in on a conversation about socrates , just because you discuss shakespear doesnt mean it must be done in old english either many would love to join in if we could understand and feel we werent being snubbed because of a language barrier

3 as far as SIMMIAS goes i baited , i knew something was fishy , once baited it was out in the open ,enogh said it was cleared up and thats fine but i knew something was staged and wrong and this forum is about trying to be open and make friends and stageing things makeing fake accounts or names it just felt wrong , but its over and done , bygones

4
by real names i meant our real forum names as what we are known as sorry if u misunderstood i am way past tired now in a very medicated state ,its almost 1 am , luckily i am in a private room so i can have my light and comp on
true i post pics about me and family i reveal my personal life problems and my locations i would give my address and phone number to anyone that is how i am , ii would rather be open then so scared of the maybes in life that i shut out the rest of my life

5 talking that awy was fine i think it would have been more productive in you r own name its a name people here know
or if the language had been lowered for others to join in , you can discuss it altho it was fun for you to try if the point was to fade out once others joined in then the language had to be more inviteing

your intentions were well but it would have served aaron and his topic better if he could have explained/discussed it in layman terms .........to have him taken a try at speaking differently than you trying to speak like him........after all you are leaving and he is not ,he is still trying to find people willing to have discussions with him ,its like me talking japanese and expecting him to speak my language ,even tho im white i spent 9 years in america , 4 in germany and over 20 in japan . i would participate but i get a headache and pain makes people irritable hence people get annoyed at aron for causeing them pain (headache)

anyway alot of thing that needed saying were said , for better or for worse
and i know alot of people are sad to see you two leave
maybe you guys will have a change of mind maybe not ,once i move i may not be back
only in touch with a few friends i made that is yet to be seen
much luck you two

 

[AaronAgassi]

Lonely2beeme, either one or both of us misunderstand said boundaries, or else either or both of us disagree about such boundaries and even differ in values pertaining thereto.

And Michael's only deceit was public anonymity, not content in any way. And he may even have been motivated in the first place, by any genuine interest. Whether you care for that or not, lonely2beeme. But perhaps you seem to think any serious conversation that doesn't reinforce your preferences likewise crosses those mythic boundaries!

Want2bhapy, I was made aware of the pep rally as demonstration of a point here on this very thread. I didn't see the relevance, so I asked, quite innocently. I didn't exactly set out to disrupt the pep rally. Nevertheless, such may always be my karma!

And Lonely2beeme, speaking of Dialectic, whenever I do not understand something communicated by another party, I ask, and in as specific detail as I know how. I attempt to detect whatever I have failed to understand, and even possible reasons why. And then I attempt to reconstruct the message content. And if I cannot do so on my own, I attempt to enlist the assistance of the sender. This is sort of effort called: miscommunication repair. The capability and willingness to engage in miscommunication repair is actually called: miscommunication competence. Try it some time!

 

[want2bhapy]

whenever I do not understand something communicated by another party, I ask

This is some of the best advice that any person can give another. Fights, arguements, and wars could have been prevented by resolving simple miscommunications. Kudos

 

[AaronAgassi]

Thanks want2bhapy, but in case you haven't noticed, I should admit that many people actually take offense! And that might be why many people actually seem to be so stubornly conditioned against the practice.

 

[want2bhapy]

I couldn't hope to understand why people will go to such great lengths to avoid simply asking a direct question. My assumption is that they may not want to truely know the answer.

That being said words are powerful wield them with care. This is especially true in places like this forum where the people may feel very vulnerable and exposed. This does not exclude questioning but rather requires the employ of skilled wordsmithing. If you do not have the tollerance or patients for this choose to ask someone else.

 

[AaronAgassi]

I fear that the call for kindness is all to often shamelessly abused as a shield for utter pigheadedness. And this creates something of a dilemma, when the pigheaded exploit the fragile as human shields.

 

[want2bhapy]

Ignorant and stubborn share a room in society where all real problems are ignored and denied. Ignorance can be forgiven as it can be cured by elucidation. Stubborn actively seeks to avoid expansion and education. If you press Stubborn it promptly shuts down rapidly places both fingers in it's ears and begins to regurgitate whatever dogma that has taken a free mind captive.

To determine who is being used as a sheild you must look at who is receiving the onslaught of arrows. While it cannot be argued that people who claim to be brave hide behind the weak and inoccent (of course I use that word very loosely) not every noble action should be dismissed as an act of cowardice.

 

[AaronAgassi]

Surely any just such closed willful non communication qualifies as a serious obstacle to overcoming loneliness, regardless of sheer quantity of surface interaction and declared sentiment. And all of which frantic commotion and uproar also serves to discourage open expression and the coalescence of any smaller more immediate genuinely interested circle. How might you set the agenda, want2bhapy? I believe you know mine.

 

[want2bhapy]

Not to get completly crude but, sometimes masterbation is good, while sex for procreation is of course the desired goal. Mainly I truly would like to solve my problem and help others along the way.This is obviously a cerebral task. Self-gratification can be a way of releaving the pressure and may allow for clearer thought. If I was writing to others I would be concerned about misinterpretation.

 

[AaronAgassi]

How did that come up?

 

[want2bhapy]

I guess I should be worried about misinterpritation. Sorry let me explain I would like to take a logical look at all of the variables in my problem and try to determine a course of action. I can also appreciate what I refered to as self-gratifiaction which is conversation simply for it's self. Like music that does not tell a story but exists just for the sound. It may not be overly productive but sometimes it can be helpful. I apologize again and have to admit I chuckled a little when I realized that my thoughts didn't quite come through. If I did not correctly interpret you question please rephrase it.

 

[AaronAgassi]

Ah, doing well by doing good...