Manifesto

[AaronAgassi]

Stop flaming me! I do not seek consensual or other validation, encounter group SHARING, a support group, small talk, inspirational/motivational pep rallies, so on and so forth, ad nausea.

Because all such superficial conformist interactions of co-validation do not assuage my loneliness, but actually frustrate and aggravate the condition! -As indeed they do, for anyone with any real burden upon their chest, let alone any real purpose. To wit:

All to many people are far too wound up in what relationships are supposed to be like, even simply to observe for themselves and ever appreciate, the real world dynamics of actual ongoing relationships. And I believe that exactly such social myths and normative distortions greatly obscure the struggle to overcome widespread loneliness.

So to Hell with the jobs we hate for the money we need, the boring classes to get ahead, the depressing courtship ordeals endured in hopes ever of getting laid, and the frantic insecure contract negotiations, struggle and strife, of long term codependency. Down with Moloch! Let us strive, instead of pointless sacrifice, towards interaction, even in every context, intrinsically for whatever it's own joy!

Hence, let us imagine better alternatives to all the blithe clichéd advice detailing somewhat robotic procedures how to meet new people, because, one way or another, clearly the aforesaid approach simply doesn't work for everyone.

Indeed, such nominal advice may not actually be intended as substantive advice at all, but merely as exhortation and encouragement. Hence, exactly such may be vastly discouraging coming as it does, distinctly at cross purposes for anyone already frustrated with exactly any such common sense application, actually and sincerely seeking new perspective, fresh ideas and new knowledge to put to use instead.

And exactly here, good intentions, let alone mere trite sentimentality, are simply not enough without genuine interest and attentive discussion in detail, all honestly taken in the spirit as intended. But because disagreement, incomprehension and misunderstanding are the normal human condition, conversational adequacy of public discourse requires meticulous detail in detecting and repairing miscommunication together, no less than vigorous open controversy. So, speak up to disagree, and if you don't understand, ask. And keep at it! Stay interested.

All thus, yet do l hope that it can be worth while first to understand and identify our various stimulus and interaction needs, then to imagine the kind of circumstance under which we might lead a happier lives in fulfillment all thereof, before only then working to strategize success on our own terms, before making preparation and taking action.

Neither ivory tower passivity on the one hand, nor the flurry of senseless activity on the other, but sound concepts intentionally cultivated and ever carried through to successful execution.

Again, rather than words of encouragement and blithe motivational exhortation to pragmatic common sense, instead, more imaginative understanding of interaction for whatever it’s own joy, intrinsically, may be the true key to real optimal practical progress, to new premise for different results.

And all of the above is precisely the kind of discussion that I seek in the quest to resolve loneliness.

Here is my agenda.

 

[teach]

Aaron said: Because all such superficial conformist interactions of co-validation do not assuage my loneliness, but actually frustrate and aggravate the condition! -As indeed they do, for anyone with any real burden upon their chest, let alone any real purpose.

So I ask: Do you assume that anyone whose condition is not frustrated or aggravated by the claimed, "superficial conformist interactions of co-validation" does not have a real burden on their chest? That perhaps our burdens are just as superficial as the interactions?

I ask before I go further with this thought.

 

[AaronAgassi]

Perhaps it varies. Yet if one yearns one true heart be seen, then hide it not away!

Put aside social mythology. Observe for yourself and learn to appreciate, the real world dynamics of actual ongoing relationships. Yes, that part adresses how I really see you in particular, teach, in case you actually want to know.

My point was, however, that idle small talk is indeed known to leave the lonely suffering individual all the more frustrated and empty, and to advocate more substantial communication. Got a problem with that?

 

[teach]

So, it could be that those with real burdens are, in fact, not only nonaggravated or frustrated by this suggested superficial interactions, but do not see it as superficial at all, rather just what they need and are in search of to aid their burdens.

 

[AaronAgassi]

Anything is possible. And welcome to it! But I am at all more certain that in my own case, not. And so, to reiterate, no thanks.

 

[teach]

You've had a relationship that wasn't in this "superficial" form? What was the depth, what was the end result if you are now in search of it again?

 

[AaronAgassi]

I've had various afferent relationships, even close ones. But yes, I am lonely. Networking to begin with for me is difficult and spare. I lack the ordinary web of support, much less for my unique ambitions. I do not lead the life that I have wanted. And it hence the topic of my initial post to this thread. Which for you, I take it, is anathema!

 

[teach]

No, I do not detest your manifesto, just have questions as to what you mean in parts and to your own exeriences to better understand your meaning behind your manifesto. For me, I am more able to understand a persons thoughts when I have background knowledge.

So, what aspects of your goal have you reached, if any, how was it reached? If not, what did you find lacking or what prevented the reaching of the understanding?

 

[AaronAgassi]

Your question confuses me. I realize now that by goals, you mean within individual relationships, rather than more broadly, socially or otherwise. The answer then is that true intimacy is rare and dear, but cooperation even more so. And the obstacles have been many and various.

But honestly, teach, methinks you feign interest in order to inveigle me into an exchange of biography. But I am unmoved. We do not relate. And empty biographical exchange is idle small talk, strained and forced false intimacy.

Where are your values, teach?

 

[teach]

No, methinks you're thinking too much into it. Your speeches have been a bit to abstract for me. I am asking for some concrete examples of the interaction you seek. I'm a mathematics person, but not in the abstract. I build my knowledge and depth from formulas created from examples which build to solidify the formerly abstract. So thus, I ask for examples. I'm not trying to relate, just understand.

 

[jales]

about what teach and Aaron are saying...I agree that
if one yearns one true heart be seen, then hide it not away!
and often people do avoid speaking about the things that matter...or letting themselves and others explore theirs minds.... exploration of self can tend to be painful...
But really you dont have to avoid small talk to get to know someone...if you are paying attention..small talk can teach you a lot about a person...not everything...but a lot

But more importantly Aaron i have to ask...what if part of one's true burden is that they can't show their heart? Even though their problems come from needing to be seen... i think many people are like that.

And so the surface...small talk is as much as they can bear to give of themselves...also it MAY be that some people just arent that deep...but if you are lonely then most likely you are...
lol in defence of small talk again...it softens you up...let's you get to trust the person a little..you can learn if the person is compationate n stuff before you get into personal.. ...more serious stuff...

as for the manifesto...well i'll post again on that later..cus i already told Aarom what i think...

 

[AaronAgassi]

But I cannot give any concrete specific, until we first have the abstract, in this case, any whatever particular frustrated need. What am I missing?

Just for a simplified example, I am missing entertaining creative exchange. And one outlet might be fiction writing together. But I have found myself frustrated by truly bizarre idiotic social politics getting in the way of shared creativity in collaborative fiction writing online. Indeed, the result is typically an unfriendly superficial mindlessly conformist annoying experience, and entirely execrable resultant fiction output! But for examples of such utterly misguided practices, browse: http://www.FoolQuest.com/fooltrek_faq/fooltrek_faq_III_g_means.htm Perhaps you may find it entertaining.

And so, on http://www.FoolQuest.com/fiction.htm I have proposed a better procedure for fiction writing collaboration, wherein the hoped for interaction, if all goes well, would be more creative, critical and fulfilling, and far less arbitrarily structured and stifling.

Thus, having begum with a personal need, I have focused upon a possibly fulfilling interaction, and then imagined desirable circumstances, in order then to strategize. Though I'm still stuck on implementation! Because no one has taken me up on my proposed online workshop.

And elsewhere on FoolQuest.com I take a similar approach to more serious needs and greater ambitions of activism and entrepreneurship. And I explain the at some length, the significance of collaborative projects to resolving loneliness at http://www.foolquest.com/wherefore.htm

But by no means is such the only conceivable course from my initial question.

Indeed, what are you missing, teach? For you, depending on your own needs, the exercise might yield anything entirely different.

And it would be wonderful if by better coming to grips with what we each want and engineering therefrom, any more fulfilling intentional way of life might be conceived, to jumping through all manner of inane hoops, as joylessly as most people do.

 

[lonelygirl]

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWN. Pretentious, much?

I am extremely well read and bright, and yet do not attempt to sound like a walking dictionary.

Aaron, What DO you want? Just to annoy? To offend?

 

[AaronAgassi]

Jales, when people find themselves blocked from expression, the problem may either be psychiatric or environmental. A psychological problem requires treatment, of course. But one might also imagine an environment however more sympathetic or otherwise conducive, as ever applicable.

lonelygirl, I need you to bite me! Can you do that? What the Hell is your problem!

 

[lonelygirl]

Aaron,

She might not be the only one to bite you. Leave Lonely2bee alone, she is an honest, sincere person. I wish I could say the same for you but sadly, you bore me to tears. And annoy me. I think you might honestly, somewhere beneath a rather prickly surface, be a very intellectual person with a good heart, but it's quite hard to see from this vantage point.

 

[teach]

Aaron,

Thank you. I have found concrete meaning to your words of "entertaining creative exchange". Alas, I also find that I may not be able to fit into the interaction you suggest, of the fictional writing, as I have yet to even have dreams I would feel worthy of a bestseller or even the dollar bin. I am not a writer, unlike other mathematicians such as Lewis Carrol. I will have to argue against your suggestion to Jales here, if you feel it fits with what I previously wrote, because I do not think that I am blocked from expression, causing my inability to be a writer. Nor, do I feel that there is a problem due to this lack of expression, in the fictional form. I find also that creativity is necessary for entrepreneurship, something I also lack. (For examples see any of my classroom bulletin boards over the years, yuck.) Now, activism, that's a possibility. I do get passionate about certain causes, just not a picket-the-White-House-lawn type.

What am I missing? Depends on the depth of the question. Am I missing something that causes me to be unable to function in everyday society, no. Am I missing something that causes me to wish for a different life, no. Am I lonely, yes, at times. However, If I weren't lonely at times, I wouldn't be able to tell the difference when I am no longer lonely and appreciate the lack of loneliness for all that it is.

 

[lonelygirl]

Teach, so funny.

I'm an entrepreneur who cares passionately about things, enough to picket the evil ******* in the white house, whilst simultaneously trying to be a writer.

 

[Guest]

If I as a guest wrote the things Aaron writes, I would be labled a troll and ignored, as would be fitting.

teach, I thought you were smarter than to let yourself be pulled into such a meaningless exchange.

LG, I personally would not call Aaron an intelligent person. Intelligent people can write so that they are understood, and they do not resort to vulgar insults when they are contradicted. All Aaron seems to have accomplished on this foum is to make himself a nuisance to both members and guests alike.

And you-know-who can save his breath.
I won't be opening this thread again.

 

[lonelygirl]

Guest,

I'm not sure if you are the one who flamed me, or harassed Vicki...we seem to have several guests. I agree that if one didn't give him the benefit of the doubt, AA would come across as a troll. But I wonder what his true intentions are.

 

[lonelygirl]

PS I have the ability to understand everything AA says--I'm an English professor. He's just too verbose for me, I find it boring and all those ten dollar words just muddy the waters.