Bible

[LoneKiller]

That's why I was vague in what I said, I have learned that's tricky seas to navigate these days.

I can't say for sure, but even though the topic is against the rules, as long as the discussion stays civil, the mods tend have patience with the posters.

 

[Alienated]

So far that does seem true, I sort of tested the waters.... They have been really mellow compared to other sites. I have had some bad experiences, and civility was absent . Let's just say Pro. 6 :27 and 1 Cor. 15:33, I had to test.... And came out with some resentments, but I'm getting over it now.

Now I walk carefully, you know ?

 

[LoneKiller]

So far that does seem true, I sort of tested the waters.... They have been really mellow compared to other sites. I have had some bad experiences, and civility was absent . Let's just say Pro. 6 :27 and 1 Cor. 15:33, I had to test.... And came out with some resentments, but I'm getting over it now.

Now I walk carefully, you know ?

Better safe than sorry.

 

[MTrip]

So far that does seem true, I sort of tested the waters.... They have been really mellow compared to other sites. I have had some bad experiences, and civility was absent . Let's just say Pro. 6 :27 and 1 Cor. 15:33, I had to test.... And came out with some resentments, but I'm getting over it now.

Now I walk carefully, you know ?

A wise policy to have. When people talk religion, as often as not they take it too seriously. They tend to identify with their chosen faith to some degree; those who identify with it most strongly are the easiest to offend (even if you're not doing that on purpose). The fact is that in this interconnected age, the odds are you will run into those of different faiths or of no traditional faith period, sooner or later. We all must come to terms with it.

 

[LoneKiller]

Before I decided to become a private worshipper, I experienced many different religions. What I found appalling was how some of these churches slammed other church's doctrine. Whether it's Catholic, Baptist, Mormon, Anglican, Jehovah's Witnesses, or Islam. They all share the belief in an Almighty Creator. All of these religions are supposed to be in harmony like an orchestra when it comes to worshipping the Almighty. Sadly, this orchestra is seriously out of tune.

Some folks think less of me because I refuse to attend church for these very reasons. Fellowship is important, but you don't need to go to church to have it. I think it's in Matthew where God says that whenever 2 or more are discussing me, I'm present. This thread is fellowship.

I will not attend church to listen to how each one thinks that there's is the right one. There is no wrong religion. Except Satanism in my opinion. I don't judge those who worship the Devil. They have every right in the world to do so. I do however, feel sorry for them.

If you believe in your God with all of your heart, He will know how sincere you are. That's all that matters. God isn't going to bash Catholics because they have a different way of worship than Mormons do. He loves us all equally.

 

[Lippy_Kid]

Before I decided to become a private worshipper, I experienced many different religions. What I found appalling was how some of these churches slammed other church's doctrine. Whether it's Catholic, Baptist, Mormon, Anglican, Jehovah's Witnesses, or Islam. They all share the belief in an Almighty Creator. All of these religions are supposed to be in harmony like an orchestra when it comes to worshipping the Almighty. Sadly, this orchestra is seriously out of tune.

Some folks think less of me because I refuse to attend church for these very reasons. Fellowship is important, but you don't need to go to church to have it. I think it's in Matthew where God says that whenever 2 or more are discussing me, I'm present. This thread is fellowship.

I will not attend church to listen to how each one thinks that there's is the right one. There is no wrong religion. Except Satanism in my opinion. I don't judge those who worship the Devil. They have every right in the world to do so. I do however, feel sorry for them.

If you believe in your God with all of your heart, He will know how sincere you are. That's all that matters. God isn't going to bash Catholics because they have a different way of worship than Mormons do. He loves us all equally.

LK - I find that attitude refreshing. I'm an Atheist but I only say that to be clear, but I'm still happy to discuss people’s faith. Sometimes I see people restricted by their religion, a common topic is homosexuality, they want to be open minded but feel it’s at odds with Christianity, based on what the bible teaches. I've always felt, placing myself in the position of someone who did have faith that the bible is intended as a guide but life is about living and experiencing and drawing your own conclusions about what is acceptable. If you are on a journey of understanding surely that’s what God would want from people; to draw their own conclusions and not live and die by what they read in the Bible... to question.

I've always thought that because the bible often states people are imperfect, by its own design the bible, written by men 1000's of years ago must be imperfect too. The people who wrote the bible, although interpreting the word of God and the teachings of Jesus would surely present their own imperfections in their writings, no matter how hard they tried to understand and write the word of God. There's much to be said for the bible as a guide to life and how to treat people and given its age its remarkably advanced in that respect, but the new testament is nearly 2000 years old and it did not fall out of the sky, it was written by men, wise and tolerant yes (for the time) but men nonetheless.

Its only my view, when considering what it would be like to have faith and how I would approach it, but thats always been my view it would be our purpose to have the courage to arrive at our own beliefs and not be too literal when it comes to the bible or the need to attend Church and abide by the rules of organized religion. Better to tailor it to ourselves as individuals while sharing common values with fellow Christians.

Hope that doesn't offend, just something I've considered.

 

[Walley]

not meaning to fire things up at all.. but
My view is that it was not only written by imperfect men.. but written by corrupting men in an attempt to control the uneducated masses.
people back then had a lot of questions about life and the world in general that no one could answer at the time. what is the sun? what is lightning? why are we here and what does it matter if I kill my competitor for food?
it was purely a bunch of stories designed to set a moral background when people started to live together in societies.
when people say "they have the fear of god in them" it is in a literal sense. the book of genesis set out to scare people into belief and for them to follow the rules or face the consequences of an angry god.

 

[Lippy_Kid]

You might be right in some respects but it did serve to give society some direction. Back then, before Science could explain much and civil consciousness had developed to the point where society did not need religion to provide a set of values to live by, religion provided a surprisingly forward thinking set of values and laws around fidelity, peace and property ownership. At its core I believe Christianity, like most religions was grounded in a positive message and vital in developing peoples view of their place in the world, good and evil and the responsibilities of the individual. It’s the corruption of those religions and their message being used for political means and population control that is the real tragedy, if not somewhat inevitable.

This thread is so getting closed soon.

 

[LoneStar1989]

I think people should stop trying to ''Assure'' others that The bible is nothing but a piece of fiction. While you are entitled to your own opinion regarding religion, I find it rather annoying to see posts demeaning another person's opinion on the given subject.

 

[Lippy_Kid]

I think people should stop trying to ''Assure'' others that The bible is nothing but a piece of fiction. While you are entitled to your own opinion regarding religion, I find it rather annoying to see posts demeaning another person's opinion on the given subject.

I don't think that has to be the case, if you accept that some people believe and some people don't, a lot of the teachings are in the form of parables or stories anyway. Its not intended as a factual document, its a collection of stories that are for the pupose of teaching.

I have plenty of respect for other peoples beliefs, plus I think Christians and Atheists can discuss theology without resorting to arguments.

 

[LeaningIntoTheMuse]

People will never agree. Why does it matter?

For every religious person trying to convince an atheist that God exists, an atheist is trying to convince a religious person that God doesn't exist.

 

[Limlim]

Before I decided to become a private worshipper, I experienced many different religions. What I found appalling was how some of these churches slammed other church's doctrine. Whether it's Catholic, Baptist, Mormon, Anglican, Jehovah's Witnesses, or Islam. They all share the belief in an Almighty Creator. All of these religions are supposed to be in harmony like an orchestra when it comes to worshipping the Almighty. Sadly, this orchestra is seriously out of tune.

Some folks think less of me because I refuse to attend church for these very reasons. Fellowship is important, but you don't need to go to church to have it. I think it's in Matthew where God says that whenever 2 or more are discussing me, I'm present. This thread is fellowship.

I will not attend church to listen to how each one thinks that there's is the right one. There is no wrong religion. Except Satanism in my opinion. I don't judge those who worship the Devil. They have every right in the world to do so. I do however, feel sorry for them.

If you believe in your God with all of your heart, He will know how sincere you are. That's all that matters. God isn't going to bash Catholics because they have a different way of worship than Mormons do. He loves us all equally.

To nit pick a little bit, modern day Satanists don't worship the devil. They prefer a distinction between them and those that do as to call themselves Satanists and those that worship devils, as devil worshipers.

 

[Lippy_Kid]

People will never agree. Why does it matter?

For every religious person trying to convince an atheist that God exists, an atheist is trying to convince a religious person that God doesn't exist.

I don't think the purpose of discussing theology has to be to convince each other to change their respective beliefs though. I've had many an enjoyable discussion with Christians about their beliefs either directly or in relation to other topics of conversation. I think it would be a shame if a Christian had a valid point to make from their religious standpoint but felt they couldn't make it for fear of either offending or being derided.

Its a free world, you should be free to say how you feel. I don't see the need to restrict that on forums to be honest as long as everyone is respectful, same as any other topic.

 

[Walley]

another point is... a person is not necessarily an atheist or non-believer if they do not follow organized religion or the bible.
these things are man made creations and institutions that really have little to do with an individuals person beliefs or spirituality.

For every religious person trying to convince an atheist that God exists, an atheist is trying to convince a religious person that God doesn't exist.

the question is, is it harder to convince an atheist that God exists than to convince a religious person that God doesn't exist?

 

[Minus]

Its a free world, you should be free to say how you feel. I don't see the need to restrict that on forums to be honest as long as everyone is respectful, same as any other topic.

I would agree with you but unfortunately we have a long history of religious discussions quickly degenerating into fights once they evolve into debates. It seems to be an area where a large number of people have a difficult time being respectful of views that differ from their own.

 

[LoneKiller]

Although I believe in God, I can understand why many people don't. I can also understand why some who used to be believers turn their backs on God. When you wake up in the morning, place your coffee and Pop Tarts on the table and turn on the news, you tend to see much more negative stuff than good. Terrorism, nuclear threats, poverty, pedophilia, and natural disasters destroying people's homes. It's very difficult to absorb without shaking your head in confusion and outright anger with God.

I consider my faith in God to be very strong, but in all fairness, I wasn't raised by abusive parents or lived in a neighborhood where violence was an everyday thing. I have no idea what that feels like. I'm blessed with a family who loves me. If my life were bad like that, chances are my faith in God might be very little if not nonexistent. I don't know.

I have tremendous sympathy for those who must suffer a life like that. They're a helluva lot tougher than me. Coming home from school only to get hit in the head with a flying beer bottle as opposed to a hug and a juice box. Why does some child have loving parents and another doesn't? It's not fair. One kid gets to go to Disney World and hug Goofy, while another is at the ER getting 10 stitches as a result of their mother's or father's rage. It's not fair. I agree 100%.

A drunk father or mother who injures their child or anyone else for that matter, knows that what they are doing is wrong. Alcoholism is a disease. Alcoholics aren't subhuman, they're just sick and need help. It's the pricks that know this and still continue to get wasted and hurt others without even trying to kick so that their life and the others around them will be a civil and caring one. I'm a recovering alcoholic. I know how hard it is to quit. It just boils down to how bad you want to quit. You must be willing to suffer in order to get sober. If not. Don't waste your time kidding yourself.

There is a passage in the Bible. I can't remember which book. But it basically says that the rain falls on the just and unjust alike. Knowing this provides little comfort to those being rained on I'm sure. I highly doubt that Michael Jordan's sprained ankle is more important to you and helps to soothe your pain from the bullet you just took in the asscheek.

We can't keep looking up expecting God to solve all of our problems that we create. I'm not talking about natural disasters or asteroids and such. I honestly have no idea why they occur. Some believe they're a sign of God's displeasure with how we are conducting ourselves down here. I really don't know.

Another good excuse many have for their problems is the Devil. " The Devil made me do it." What a ******* joke. Ol' Lucifer never forced that beer bottle to my lips and made me drink it. He never forced me to steal my mom's jewelry and sell drugs to get my fix without any concern to how others are affected. Although it's my belief that Satan does tempt us, he doesn't have the same power God does. He can't force us do anything. Blaming him is a convenience for those who are afraid to accept the consequences of their bad decisions in life.

We can't go around praising God for giving us free will, use it, then turn around and blame Him because the consequences of the choices we made were too hard to accept. The bible is in a sense an instruction manual on how we should live our life in the best and most pleasant way. It's full of advice to aid us in the effort to live a good life. It is we that make the choice of whether or not to take head to it's words.

We can't concern ourselves trying to ask and answer each other questions about life that no human could possibly answer. I don't care how powerful a man Barack Obama is. I don't care how good of an orator Hitler or Churchill was. The truth is, all of us here on Earth ultimately don't know what to expect next. You don't think that priests or any member of the clergy for that matter don't pound their fist on their desk in frustration when the problems that surround them are seemingly too hard to handle?

There is one thing I'd like to bring up here. That being the New World Order because it in my belief, it will go down in our generation. This is how I believe it's going to go, and I don't want to seem too confident in my interpretation. Nor am I intentionally disrespecting and world leader or country.

I respectfully believe that after extensive study and prayer, that I'm correct. I've watched many docs and have read much material on the topic. Basically, the NWO as I understand it is a one-world government. They're working on it right now. It's designed to keep the wealthiest and most powerful people on the planet in charge of everything.

They are being duped by the Antichrist. Hitler tried to run the entire show before he went tits up and almost succeeded. Now, in our time, the Bilderbergers and countless other powerful people are looking to establish a one-world government like Hitler, except for the master race thing. They are going to be successful in establishing this order because it's history being told before it happens. The Antichrist, the prick that he is, is far more intelligent and powerful than us. He is Satan's emissary, and this comes with thousands of years of knowledge and an understanding of the Bible on a far greater magnitude than any human can.

He will be very charismatic, attractive, wicked intelligent, and rotten to the core, with an agenda straight out of Hell. He will solve the world's problems in an almost uncanny way. His military knowledge and tactics will be unparalleled. He'll sign a 7 year peace treaty with Israel, only to do a complete 180 half way through it and show his true colors. The new temple will be built and he will sit in it and demand to be worshipped as God.

Many people believe Barack Obama is the Antichrist because he has all the necessary things and qualities to be the Antichrist. He has great charisma, he's a good looking man, he's very intelligent, he has the mightiest military force on the planet, unprecedented support as the president from our generation and he preaches peace.

The Antichrist will make people accept the mark of the beast on their forehead or hand if memory serves. You may have heard of the RFID chip. All your info for the scanners to detect. Should people refuse to accept his mark, they will not be able to buy, sell, or hold a job. He uses this mark to identify his followers. Those who refuse to worship him will be punished and killed. (He'll have to kill me, because I will not accept his mark. I will not put him before God. And besides. I'm much more afraid of God.

This will come to be what's known as the Tribulation. Absolute chaos and unthinkable horror. Many others and myself included, believe in the Rapture, where Jesus will collect His true believers up into the skies with him so we don't have to suffer like those left behind. When all of this goes down, it will come to the final battle
battle known as Armageddon, where the forces of God and Satan will have a go. Jesus will not be the loving, and kind person we know him to be when this takes place. He will be a merciless bloodthirsty warrior and obliterate the evil army. The Devil is bound and Jesus will reign on Earth for a 1,000 years.

This is how I believe things will be. I mean no disrespect to others who believe differently.

 

[edgecrusher]

When it comes to this I always think of the scale of the universe. I don't doubt the possibility of there potentially being a "higher power" or something comparable, but I think the possibility of it being what we think it is is so slim that it isn't even worth refuting. There are two things I think of when it comes to the questions that religion attempts to answer. The first is in my signature... religion is flawed because man is flawed.

The other thing I always think of is what Socrates said..." I am the smartest man alive for I know one thing, and that is that I know nothing." When it comes to what is potentially out there in the universe, while I love that quote I think it is actually likely to be an understatement. The last few hundred years of what we have discovered about the universe show us that.

 

[LoneKiller]

When it comes to something like this I always think of the scale of the universe. I don't doubt the possibility of there potentially being a "higher power" but I think the possibility of it being what we think it is is so slim that it isn't even worth refuting. There are two things I think of when it comes to the questions that religion attempts to answer. The first is in my signature.... religion is flawed because man is flawed.

The other thing I always think of what Socrates said..." I am the smartest man alive for I know one thing, and that is that I know nothing." When it comes to what is potentially out there in the universe, while I love that quote I think it is actually likely to be an understatement.

I've gotta say edgecrusher, you make an interesting couple of points there. I never looked at it that way.

 

[edgecrusher]

I've gotta say edgecrusher, you make an interesting couple of points there. I never looked at it that way.

Thank you. I just can't see subscribing to anything that has been in the hands of men for that long, especially something that originated in a more primitive time in our species life time when we knew significantly less about the universe. If it helps someone get through life and makes them a better person then so be it. In fact, I'm happy for them. I've seen it happen. But my brain thinks WAY too much for that, lol. It is incapable of what I see as nothing more than blind faith.

 

[Alienated]

In Daniel it said in 12:4 "But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased."

If we are so smart, then why is everything going so wrong, and we use that knowledge to destroy ... Just like it said we would !!

There is a big big difference between knowledge and wisdom !!