Interesting.Solitary said:Nobody is crazy here, just opinionated
Interesting point of view. However all I can think while I read this, if you pardon my lack of tact, are rationalizations. I really don't know you or your situation in life but what I see is someone who wishes to deny all responsibility that he has over his life. It can be very comforting to think that everything is set in stone and we're just watching it play out. I'm not saying that you really are, I'm just noticing. Sorry if this offends you.
I could give one example of this pre-destination that PurpleDays noticed. It is predisposition to something. Almost similar words. Predisposition is genetic, and it means that there are certain genetic conditions which, given the right push, can manifest themselves into actual characteristics or symptoms. Predisposition to cancer increases the risk of cancer, but we can't say that the person was born with cancer. He might as well live a long and healthy life, despite having a greater risk for cancer. Or if people somehow have a predisposition to believe in god (since so many people in the past believed in at least some deity, just like they do now), that doesn't mean that everybody WILL believe in god, even if they're predisposed. Given certain way of thinking and some convincing proof (or lack thereof) might convince a person to turn to atheism.
I've seen a documentary (can't remember the name, ****) where some doctors argued that criminals do have a predisposition to violent and offensive behaviour, but it only surfaces when there are certain conditions. For example, when such a person is abused as a child or suffers from some other physical/emotional trauma. From a genetic standpoint, it could be explained by regulation of gene expression. Some genes are there, but they're inactive. I don't know how but certain conditions might activate those genes. Only then we notice that they're actually there. If this would be completely proven, it would be interesting to see how would the law decide to inflict punishment if they knew that certain criminals really had no freedom of stopping themselves. Would their sentences be minimized? Or would they still be judged like they would be if those crimes were in complete control of their conscious decisions?
All in all, I think we should not argue whether freedom to shape ourselves exists. There might be no correct answer, just like with so many other philosophical concepts.
My own belief is best expressed with PurpleDays' analogy of the fish tank. Surely there are limits - the solid glass - but what happens within the fish tank is mostly the result of our freedom. Once again I repeat myself - freedom is not absolute nor nonexistent. It is the ability to choose from a limited number of alternatives. What it means to think that way: I do recognize that there are unchangeable aspects of my life which I must follow and cannot break, but I also do not deprive myself of responsibility over my actions, because I am able to choose within those boundaries of predispositions.
I don't get offended. Well spotted, it does seem to be full of rationalisations. I have yet to make a mistake so great that I've wanted to deny all responsibility. Until a theory is proven that lets me not take responsibility for my actions then I take full responsibility for my actions
I think what you're saying plays into my theory quite nicely.. we have genetic predispositions that account for the genetics part of the formula, but they only surface when our stress level exceeds its limit (the limit determined by genetics) but the physical/sexual abuse is caused by someone else who fits into the equation and has been substituted into your life and they're physically/sexually abusing the original subject because they had been predisposed to that through genetics and it had surfaced because of someone else or some other variable which is that way because of another variable and it stacks up to an infinite complexity equation.
I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying completely, which isn't your fault. I'm just not very good at explaining myself, something I'll probably get better at in the future.
It's not a script, like I said, it's a fluid equation with an infinite number of variables that keeps life interesting and not just watching it play out, but living it through these variables.
Solitary said:
I agree with that. Before coming up with a complete conclusion we need to understand everything.
Philosophy is there for people to create theories and debate with each other. I love it.
Devil's advocate is good. I never expected what I said to be accepted.
Living in a crack den doesn't make a criminal, true, but that's only one part of that persons life, they still have billions of other experiences and their genetics that need to be accounted for, that's why it's of such complexity.
I would like to believe I make the choices and I would like to be wrong because knowing that my life is out of my control would make things... I don't know, it would be life changing. However, if we are watching our life unfold then that would account for what is often called in quantum physics the observer.
Solitary, maybe you're not the right guy to talk to for everyone, but I greatly enjoy chatting to you about certain topics. It's very refreshing.
Anyway, I think everything's been said on this topic before we start going around in loops. Let us all sit down with some e-tea and talk about the weeks sporting events :club:
