Family and diplomacy

[Matej]

One doesn't get to choose their own family, they do get to choose their friends, however. I haven't had any problems with friends. Especially real friends, and mature ones. Immature are -- well -- immature. I haven't had many, and certainly wasn't ever hanging out much with any of my friends.

I'm showing you a few examples of my everyday life. Now I wonder, is that normal for a family or for a group of friends? Is life always about being diplomatic, watching for every word you might say wrong, being constantly worried about doing one tiny detail wrong?

Sure, I wouldn't worry if it's someone I don't know or if it's someone I'm not much in touch with, like a random stranger, a bartender, a hairdresser, a boss etc. But how about the loved ones? Your family? Your friends? Your spouse?

Examples:

Person1 buys person2 a present, nothing special, no occasion, just like that. And it's something simple, say chocolate bar, cheap necklace, etc. Person2 then wants to pay for it, despite it being a present. Person1 won't accept any money, and then they start to fight about it.

Or. Person3 wants something from a shop and asks person4 to get it for them. Person4 brings it and then person3 pays for it. Say it costs 7.79. Person3 will "pay" with a 10. Person4 will then return the change (3.00), but person3 won't accept it, saying it's too much. After 5 minutes of quarreling, person3 then finds 0.80 and give it to person4. Of course that's off by 1 cent, and then they'll fight about that 1 cent for 10 more minutes.

Or. PersonA makes a derogatory remark towards personB or accuse them of doing things they didn't do. And not really jokingly, either. Just for own pleasure or so. I don't know. Anyway, personC then asks personA to behave, and then personA runs away, whining, how they're unwanted and in everyone's way. Then of course, both personB and personC ask them to come back, continue to chat or whatever, however, it might as weel turn into everyone shouting at everyone.

Or. PersonD did something wrong 20 or more years ago. PersonE then makes fun of and whine constantly (maybe not daily, but certainly at least once a week) about that thing they did. This often (especially if third person is present) turns into previous scenario.

Is that normal for a family? How about for a group of friends? Is it normal that one must constantly worry about saying something wrong? Is it normal that one must carefully think before answering, and that the answer must be very diplomatic one. And that's not just about some important things, it happens daily, about even most everday things like eating, going to the bathroom, sleeping, etc. Why diplomatic? Because every answer you give will offend and upset someone. If you, however, refuse to answer or just don't say anything (not ignoring the question, just not expressing an opinion about something (and not when asked about one)) is wrong just as well and people get upset again.

Is it normal that they're so stubborn that they will deny that they're sick even when it's obvious standing 10 metres away? So stubborn that they want to do everything by themselves. When asking whether I can help them with anything I get brushed off. Then I just tell them to call me if they need any help. However, I might get accused afterwards for not helping them. I beg your pardon? How can I know if you need help with certain thing? Should I be like a puppy dog always following you?

I feel useless. And even when I do help, it's quite obvious that my help wasn't needed or even not wanted. That I wasn't much of a help or even did something wrong, etc. etc.

I don't seek pity, don't get me wrong. All I'm asking for is brutal honesty. I've always considered home and family a place where you feel comfortable and relaxed. A place where you can enjoy and have fun. However, all I'm seeing is almost exactly the opposite. Does this happen all the time to a majority or not? Please be honest.

 

[Nina]

(((Matej)))

What your going through and frequently far worse happens in many families. Families can be very twisted, angry and troubling if not down right dangerous. It's a lot more common than many think. I worked in a school system for 10 years, the stories I heard were heartbreaking, fightening and in so many cases criminal. Is there anyway you can sit some of these folks down and reason with them? You sound like the most mature person in the house.

 

[SophiaGrace]

It's hard to say whether or not it is normal. I think it's normal to be irritable around people you are very comfortable with. Notice i say irritable, not mean or abusive.

*shrug*

 

[lomojojo]

I guess what's normal for someone could be abnormal for someone else, specially families. We all have different lifestyles. Sometimes a way of living becomes such an every day thing that it goes unnoticed. I personally would feel very uncomfortable being so diplomatic all the time afraid of causing arguments and stuff in my house and around my family or close friends. It's a tough one.

 

[tehdreamer]

Families can be down right psychotic at times. Even if you're not arguing about stuff 24/7, there's still a lot of crap going on.

I think the major problem is that people have feelings about things they've never brought up or talked about and they have their own personal issues and problems, which mix and turn into ill feelings. Then something minor happens and it's a huge battle. It's pretty obvious if there's fighting about exact change, and not because someone stole or misplaced the change, there must be some deeper issues at hand.

Sadly, it's been my experience that you can't fix a family with so many deep seated issues unless everyone agrees to go to counseling or have a mediator involved. Because if you just try to get everyone talking and expressing their feelings, it becomes a big, ugly mess of emotions and accusations so you need a unbiased third party who isn't related to anyone.

It's best just to run far, far away so you only have to put up with being diplomatic and walking on eggshells on holidays and reunions.

 

[Harold_King]

I don't really have any family left, so I guess it's good I don't have to worry about handling things on holidays and such.

Of course, it makes holidays extra-depressing not to have anybody or anything. Good thing the movie theaters are open.

 

[Calm]

One doesn't get to choose their own family, they do get to choose their friends, however. I haven't had any problems with friends. Especially real friends, and mature ones. Immature are -- well -- immature. I haven't had many, and certainly wasn't ever hanging out much with any of my friends.

I'm showing you a few examples of my everyday life. Now I wonder, is that normal for a family or for a group of friends? Is life always about being diplomatic, watching for every word you might say wrong, being constantly worried about doing one tiny detail wrong?

Sure, I wouldn't worry if it's someone I don't know or if it's someone I'm not much in touch with, like a random stranger, a bartender, a hairdresser, a boss etc. But how about the loved ones? Your family? Your friends? Your spouse?

Examples:

Person1 buys person2 a present, nothing special, no occasion, just like that. And it's something simple, say chocolate bar, cheap necklace, etc. Person2 then wants to pay for it, despite it being a present. Person1 won't accept any money, and then they start to fight about it.

Or. Person3 wants something from a shop and asks person4 to get it for them. Person4 brings it and then person3 pays for it. Say it costs 7.79. Person3 will "pay" with a 10. Person4 will then return the change (3.00), but person3 won't accept it, saying it's too much. After 5 minutes of quarreling, person3 then finds 0.80 and give it to person4. Of course that's off by 1 cent, and then they'll fight about that 1 cent for 10 more minutes.

Or. PersonA makes a derogatory remark towards personB or accuse them of doing things they didn't do. And not really jokingly, either. Just for own pleasure or so. I don't know. Anyway, personC then asks personA to behave, and then personA runs away, whining, how they're unwanted and in everyone's way. Then of course, both personB and personC ask them to come back, continue to chat or whatever, however, it might as weel turn into everyone shouting at everyone.

Or. PersonD did something wrong 20 or more years ago. PersonE then makes fun of and whine constantly (maybe not daily, but certainly at least once a week) about that thing they did. This often (especially if third person is present) turns into previous scenario.

Is that normal for a family? How about for a group of friends? Is it normal that one must constantly worry about saying something wrong? Is it normal that one must carefully think before answering, and that the answer must be very diplomatic one. And that's not just about some important things, it happens daily, about even most everday things like eating, going to the bathroom, sleeping, etc. Why diplomatic? Because every answer you give will offend and upset someone. If you, however, refuse to answer or just don't say anything (not ignoring the question, just not expressing an opinion about something (and not when asked about one)) is wrong just as well and people get upset again.

Is it normal that they're so stubborn that they will deny that they're sick even when it's obvious standing 10 metres away? So stubborn that they want to do everything by themselves. When asking whether I can help them with anything I get brushed off. Then I just tell them to call me if they need any help. However, I might get accused afterwards for not helping them. I beg your pardon? How can I know if you need help with certain thing? Should I be like a puppy dog always following you?

I feel useless. And even when I do help, it's quite obvious that my help wasn't needed or even not wanted. That I wasn't much of a help or even did something wrong, etc. etc.

I don't seek pity, don't get me wrong. All I'm asking for is brutal honesty. I've always considered home and family a place where you feel comfortable and relaxed. A place where you can enjoy and have fun. However, all I'm seeing is almost exactly the opposite. Does this happen all the time to a majority or not? Please be honest.

You almost described the life of my family, except that mine is much much worse.

It seems your family problem lies in power struggle. Its always the power struggle.

 

[cheaptrickfan]

I've always considered home and family a place where you feel comfortable and relaxed. A place where you can enjoy and have fun. However, all I'm seeing is almost exactly the opposite. Does this happen all the time to a majority or not? Please be honest.

It is ironic that sometimes the very people who should be the most supportive of us are often the LEAST supportive. Some people think that just because you are family, that the basics of common courtesy don't apply.

I've heard people justify it by saying "Oh, it's Tough Love. Who else is going to help tell you the hard truths but your family," and while there is some truth there, more often than not I see family members really go after one another viciously.

The opposite extreme are the enablers who help keep people mired in their bad situation.

It's crazy, I tell ya.

 

[tehdreamer]

I like to call my family "passive supporters". If I want to quit life and become a bum on the street they would say "Oh, ok. If that's what you want to do!" and if I wanted to run for president, I'd get the same response. Good or bad, no one really shows much support or disagreement. Which can really suck because sometimes I could use some motivation which simply isn't there.

But let me mention how I don't like someone doing a certain thing and how it annoys me.. Then we have a 10 hour argument going which usually ends in me being the bad guy and having to apologize. Family is insane.

 

[cheaptrickfan]

But let me mention how I don't like someone doing a certain thing and how it annoys me.. Then we have a 10 hour argument going which usually ends in me being the bad guy and having to apologize. Family is insane.

That is insane. I have one family member who can be as critical as she likes about me, my kids, my life and whatever, but if I say word one about her life, then I am the Biggest ***** of the Universe.

I hate the double standards. They shouldn't dish honeysuckle out if they're not prepared to have it slung right back at them.

 

[SophiaGrace]

I've always considered home and family a place where you feel comfortable and relaxed. A place where you can enjoy and have fun. However, all I'm seeing is almost exactly the opposite. Does this happen all the time to a majority or not? Please be honest.

It is ironic that sometimes the very people who should be the most supportive of us are often the LEAST supportive. Some people think that just because you are family, that the basics of common courtesy don't apply.

I've heard people justify it by saying "Oh, it's Tough Love. Who else is going to help tell you the hard truths but your family," and while there is some truth there, more often than not I see family members really go after one another viciously.

The opposite extreme are the enablers who help keep people mired in their bad situation.

It's crazy, I tell ya.

I think people become strange and harder to deal with the closer you get to them. At least that's been my experience. It's hard to edit yourself when you've opened yourself up too much and then all the ugliness of your character seeps out. All the petty doubts, fears, insecurities, foibles, you name it.

Professionalism exists solely to prevent this difficult, deeper, more personal aspect of human nature from making the work-place an emotionally difficult place to be.

This is just my opinion though.

 

[cheaptrickfan]

I think people become strange and harder to deal with the closer you get to them. At least that's been my experience. It's hard to edit yourself when you've opened yourself up too much and then all the ugliness of your character seeps out. All the petty doubts, fears, insecurities, foibles, you name it.

All the more reason to treat the ones you love, the ones whose foibles and insecurities and flaws are laid bare before you, with compassion, at least the same level of compassion you'd show to a stranger or a friend.

Just because I've opened up and shared my deepest fears with someone like, say, my sister, I shouldn't have to fear that she would use this against me in a moment of pettiness.


Sometimes it seems bass-ackwards to me. :/

This is just my opinion though.

 

[SophiaGrace]

I think people become strange and harder to deal with the closer you get to them. At least that's been my experience. It's hard to edit yourself when you've opened yourself up too much and then all the ugliness of your character seeps out. All the petty doubts, fears, insecurities, foibles, you name it.

All the more reason to treat the ones you love, the ones whose foibles and insecurities and flaws are laid bare before you, with compassion, at least the same level of compassion you'd show to a stranger or a friend.

That's difficult to do, even though I try to remind myself to do that with my family. By the way, I was talking about myself, when I try to get close to people sometimes. :/

 

[Matej]

You been answering. Thank you very much, all of you.

yes, tehdreamer, exactly the same here, however, I'm kinda happy that is LESS extreme than what you described.

CTF: there's one such person in this house. she's getting kinda crazy. gotta have everything under control all the time, thus also not sleeping much, and then complaining about it, ehhh. I understand it runs in the family, since her mother was the same (i didn't know her, though). On top of it, she lives in the past and her passed-away brothers are and have always been more important to her than her husband and even her own children.

Nina: thanks. too many conspiracy theories about, to change much if any. they're paired off, too. My brother seems reasonable often, but easily gets into drawn in (at least he has no fixed side. I mean, he chooses sides solely based on his opinion and not prejudice. Others have more or less fixed sides. But he (my brother) is just the right age (17) not to listen to anyone... *shrug* "who put you in charge" and yes, he's kinda right. And nobody listens to him cause "he's a kid". Me? Oh they take time to listen to me, but I can see that I could as well be talking about quantum physics or transitive verbs. If it fits them right, I'm also "just a young kid without experience" "you got no idea, you're just a kid". Oh well... if they were some 20 years younger and/or had healthy dose of self-esteem. *shrug*


Sorry, just had to let it out. And thanks again for responses.

 

[SophiaGrace]

FAMILY TROUBLES! AGH!

I think these issues might be what makes people move out of their house. :/

*hugs for Matej*

 

[Matej]

Another family related thing, and didn't want to open another thread.
Don't know how to deal with my mother. Well, of course I understand one is to help their parents, even teach them about things, but that comes when they're a bit older, right? I mean, ok, help with things they don't understand very well, like computers is understandable, but ehh.. she at almost 45 should be much more experienced than her son, right? Should/could have some advice for me how to cope, deal with life and move through?

Then why is it, that it's about the other way around? Or perhaps mutual. Sure she did help me with some advices, but truth be told, majority of them were rather irrelevant in this time (would apply better 20-30 years ago). Is it normal that I have to teach her how to be a parent? Constantly saying how to establish some kind of order, how to y'know.. do things.

And then, there's this huge issue about her coping through life. I'd like to help, but how can I? I can't be her friend, really. And I can't possibly have any good advice regarding interpersonal relationships, since I'm having problems as well. Not to mention I lack any insight of her generation. She's not really suicidal, thankfully.
On second thought.. perhaps she is? And that she'd already have committed suicide was it not for my brother and me. She's said before a few times that she just wants to live as long that we're (financially) independent, then even if she dies.
She's also often saying how she "can't anymore" or that she's gonna kill herself or similar. And if she's like totally tired and keeps repeating "I can't anymore, I can't anymore ..." like a mantra, and we tell her, she doesn't need to, have a rest, etc. she'd answer that she has to do it, whatever it may be. And when I offer to do it instead or help her if I can, she's all but pushing me away saying "no, I'll do it".

I don't know. Should I physically fight with her to do something instead of her? And then listen her shouting and arguing later? Dunno what good that'd bring.

And then my favourite: my father should never have kids. Right. I should never have been born? But she still loves me as her son? blah.