I am Misunderstood. I am a Monster.

[Despicable Me]

This is something I tried to post a few days ago, but apparently I can't talk about things like this when I am in depression, I am feeling a bit better now so I best get it out of the way so I don't dwell on it again later.

So anyway, I have a problem other than just depression. Basically, I am never understood. I have pretty much absolutely nothing in common with the vast majority of people. I can't form any sort of relationships with most people, I can't seem to start or maintain friendships. I don't mean just 'in real life' - I mean online, too.

Not only that, but I actually seem to be hated for my beliefs, for who I am.
I disagree with a lot of things that society just accepts, as if there weren't any problems or as if the problems could not be avoided.
If I were to explain in detail - most of you would likely hate me, too. Society holds many prejudices against people like me. They make sure of that.

Yet, even when I find people who supposedly are to share common interests, people who also disagree with these aspects of society, they are often either extremely arrogant and often really are horrible people, making them even worse than everyone else, or ultimately they disagree only on a superficial level.

To make matters worse, my interests tend to fall far outside of the scope of most people. I like to study and talk about Philosophy, Global Religions, Society, various aspects of Science, and etc.
I can't find people who are 'on my level' with things. I'm honestly not even sure they exist. Not that I think I'm 'above' anyone, but that I just seem to be a complete outcast.
So what am I to do? I am perpetually alone, not necessarily because people would not like who I am if they knew me but because society essentially dictates that they believe they would not like who I am.

The thing is, I am not lost. I am not confused. I am not unhappy. I am actually very strong-willed. The real problem just seems to be, I am just me.
I am actually completely used to being alone. I have been alone for so long. The loneliness only seems to bother me in that I have no one to talk to on an 'intellectual level'. Technically I am not even "alone", I have a wife and two young kids. It's just that my wife doesn't share my main interests.

But worst of all, it's this 'mask' I have to put on to hide the real me, because no one wants to see the real me. I feel it is absolutely impossible to get any respect. I also find it difficult to give respect to others due to the way others see me.

I've thought before that maybe I'd be more comfortable going back to college and getting a high degree, maybe being able to find someone to share my interests with there. They would have to share some, right? It also seems that when people are more educated they are a lot more open-minded. But I don't have the time or money for that. It's a pipe dream. I have a family I have to provide for now. I have realized who I am too late in my life.

As my username suggests, I can only seem to relate to fictional characters who, like me, are complete outcasts. These fictional characters are not real, and so I am just left alone again.
Like them, Maybe I am a monster sometimes but when has the world ever given me a chance not to be a monster?
... Or maybe I really am a monster, but why does that mean I can't just be accepted for what I am?

I feel like an alien. I feel like I don't belong here.
When I can share an interest with someone it just seems so superficial, it is generally the only interest we share. We stop talking because there is just generally nothing to talk about.

Then of course pile on problems like occasional episodes of depression, disassociation, etc.

Any suggestions?
I am not really sure anyone here could help, but I ran across this forum when I was feeling depressed and thought it was worth a try.

 

[madera23]

This is something I tried to post a few days ago, but apparently I can't talk about things like this when I am in depression, I am feeling a bit better now so I best get it out of the way so I don't dwell on it again later.

So anyway, I have a problem other than just depression. Basically, I am never understood. I have pretty much absolutely nothing in common with the vast majority of people. I can't form any sort of relationships with most people, I can't seem to start or maintain friendships. I don't mean just 'in real life' - I mean online, too.

Not only that, but I actually seem to be hated for my beliefs, for who I am.
I disagree with a lot of things that society just accepts, as if there weren't any problems or as if the problems could not be avoided.
If I were to explain in detail - most of you would likely hate me, too. Society holds many prejudices against people like me. They make sure of that.

Yet, even when I find people who supposedly are to share common interests, people who also disagree with these aspects of society, they are often either extremely arrogant and often really are horrible people, making them even worse than everyone else, or ultimately they disagree only on a superficial level.

To make matters worse, my interests tend to fall far outside of the scope of most people. I like to study and talk about Philosophy, Global Religions, Society, various aspects of Science, and etc.
I can't find people who are 'on my level' with things. I'm honestly not even sure they exist. Not that I think I'm 'above' anyone, but that I just seem to be a complete outcast.
So what am I to do? I am perpetually alone, not necessarily because people would not like who I am if they knew me but because society essentially dictates that they believe they would not like who I am.

The thing is, I am not lost. I am not confused. I am not unhappy. I am actually very strong-willed. The real problem just seems to be, I am just me.
I am actually completely used to being alone. I have been alone for so long. The loneliness only seems to bother me in that I have no one to talk to on an 'intellectual level'. Technically I am not even "alone", I have a wife and two young kids. It's just that my wife doesn't share my main interests.

But worst of all, it's this 'mask' I have to put on to hide the real me, because no one wants to see the real me. I feel it is absolutely impossible to get any respect. I also find it difficult to give respect to others due to the way others see me.

I've thought before that maybe I'd be more comfortable going back to college and getting a high degree, maybe being able to find someone to share my interests with there. They would have to share some, right? It also seems that when people are more educated they are a lot more open-minded. But I don't have the time or money for that. It's a pipe dream. I have a family I have to provide for now. I have realized who I am too late in my life.

As my username suggests, I can only seem to relate to fictional characters who, like me, are complete outcasts. These fictional characters are not real, and so I am just left alone again.
Like them, Maybe I am a monster sometimes but when has the world ever given me a chance not to be a monster?
... Or maybe I really am a monster, but why does that mean I can't just be accepted for what I am?

I feel like an alien. I feel like I don't belong here.
When I can share an interest with someone it just seems so superficial, it is generally the only interest we share. We stop talking because there is just generally nothing to talk about.

Then of course pile on problems like occasional episodes of depression, disassociation, etc.

Any suggestions?
I am not really sure anyone here could help, but I ran across this forum when I was feeling depressed and thought it was worth a try.

Hi
first of all, you are no monster, you are surrounded by monsters.
I can only help you by telling you to stay who you are and ignore those empty people who judge you.
This is a spiritual problem, you are tempted to judge yourself, DON'T.
I am interested in the same areas you are so if you want to express your thoughts, I will listen.
Remember Jesus was killed by those who did not love the truth.
And, yes, you are above others who are lacking in truth.
"Forgive them for they know not what they do.".
I will be glad to share with you anytime

 

[Despicable Me]

I would like to think I'm rather mature now. I don't judge myself. Other people judging me doesn't bother me anymore either. I laugh off insults, to be honest. I have heard every insult possible. They are all entirely meaningless now. I know more than enough about psychology to know that all insults are meaningless to begin with. My self-esteem is just fine. That isn't the problem. I used to have that problem a long time ago, but not anymore.

I am happy with who I am. The problem is that no one else seems to be happy with who I am.
The reason I can say "I'm a monster" is actually because of the fact it doesn't bother me. I don't mean it in the way that I actually think I'm a horrible person or that I hate myself. I mean it in the way that if who I am is a "monster" then I am perfectly fine with being a monster because it does not change who I am. These are just labels, they are just meaningless words. They mean nothing to me.

Look at any number of fictional characters who you could relate this with. Gru, from the movie 'Despicable Me'. He was happy being himself. He was happy with the dead lawn and the wicked looking house and with the monstrous car that destroyed everything it passed. He wasn't bothered by what other people thought of him. Then he got the girls and that only added to his happiness. He still freezes people, lives in the same house with the same dead lawn, and drives the same monstrous car. He still does not care what other people think of him.

This isn't a spiritual problem for me. It's a worldly problem. Society dislikes who I am and I'm not sure what to do about it. While I am fine living in a horrible house and driving a monstrous car, in real life the police arrest you, society condemns you, and they all send you to jail for the rest of your life if you start freezing people and steal the moon. And minions don't exist.

Seen the show 'Breaking Bad'? Walter did not do it for the money, that was never what he really wanted. He did it because it was who he really was. For so long his true self was being oppressed. He was a genius, but forced to teach High School chemistry classes due to circumstances. His talents were wasted, so what else would he become but a "monster"?

Know what I'm saying?

 

[FPL2014]

I understand you perfectly because I feel the same way.

However, I'm too depressed today to give you any sort of positive response.

 

[SophiaGrace]

I understand you perfectly because I feel the same way.

However, I'm too depressed today to give you any sort of positive response.

(hugs)

 

[madera23]

I would like to think I'm rather mature now. I don't judge myself. Other people judging me doesn't bother me anymore either. I laugh off insults, to be honest. I have heard every insult possible. They are all entirely meaningles[/i][/size]s now. I know more than enough about psychology to know that all insults are meaningless to begin with. My self-esteem is just fine. That isn't the problem. I used to have that problem a long time ago, but not anymore.

I am happy with who I am. The problem is that no one else seems to be happy with who I am.
The reason I can say "I'm a monster" is actually because of the fact it doesn't bother me. I don't mean it in the way that I actually think I'm a horrible person[size=x-small] or that I hate
myself. I mean it in the way that if who I am is a "monster" then I am perfectly fine with being
a monster because it does not change who I am. These are just labels, they are just
meaningless words. They mean nothing to me.
===============================================
If they mean nothing to you it would not bother you,

I think you are supressing your pain.
=============================

Look at any number of fictional characters who you could relate this with. Gru, from the movie 'Despicable Me'. He was happy being himself. He was happy with the dead lawn and the wicked looking house and with the monstrous car that destroyed everything it passed. He wasn't bothered by what other people thought of him. Then he got the girls and that only added to his happiness. He still freezes people, lives in the same house with the same dead lawn, and drives the same monstrous car. He still does not care what other people think of him.

This isn't a spiritual problem for me. It's a worldly problem. Society dislikes who I am and I'm not sure what to do about it. While I am fine living in a horrible house and driving a monstrous car, in real life the police arrest you, society condemns you, and they all send you to jail for the rest of your life if you start freezing people and steal the moon. And minions don't exist.

Seen the show 'Breaking Bad'? Walter did not do it for the money, that was never what he really wanted. He did it because it was who he really was. For so long his true self was being oppressed. He was a genius, but forced to teach High School chemistry classes due to circumstances. His talents were wasted, so what else would he become but a "monster"?

Know what I'm saying?

 

[Cucuboth]

I feel the same way too, for the most part. I never seem to fit in anywhere. It doesn't matter where, or what, it is, or even if I am told that I will fit in, I just never do. I've done art classes, and tried to join art groups, where there was supposed to be people who shared the same interest in art that I do. And maybe they did. But I just didn't fit in with them, so I was ignored, and felt more and more isolated. That's happened in all the groups I've tried to join. It happened when I was working, with the added bullying to go with it. The same with volunteering and charity work. I just don't fit in. Even when someone says that they like people who don't fit in, huh, they still don't like me. I don't even fit in online. Even here, where others say that they are lonely too, I feel the same as all the other places I've tried to fit in to. Tried to find somewhere to belong, to find people to talk with .....

And nobody has, and nobody seems to want to, touch me. Or even be around me. I've never held hands, or even had my first kiss. The last real face-to-face social conversation I had with someone was back in 1996. Nobody can even bring themselves to go to a movie with me. Or share a hug. How else am I supposed to feel about myself, other than to think that I must be a monster?

 

[madera23]

I would like to think I'm rather mature now. I don't judge myself. :club:Other people judging me doesn't bother me anymore either. I laugh off insults, to be honest. I have heard every insult possible. They are all entirely meaningles[/i][/size]s now. I know more than enough about psychology to know that all insults are meaningless to begin with. My self-esteem is just fine. That isn't the problem. I used to have that problem a long time ago, but not anymore.

I am happy with who I am. The problem is that no one else seems to be happy with who I am.
The reason I can say "I'm a monster" is actually because of the fact it doesn't bother me. I don't mean it in the way that I actually think I'm a horrible person[size=x-small] or that I hate
myself. I mean it in the way that if who I am is a "monster" then I am perfectly fine with being
a monster because it does not change who I am. These are just labels, they are just
meaningless words. They mean nothing to me.
===============================================
If they mean nothing to you it would not bother you,


I think you are supressing your pain.
=============================

========================================

Look at any number of fictional characters who you could relate this with. Gru, from the movie 'Despicable Me'. He was happy being himself. He was happy with the dead lawn and the wicked looking house and with the monstrous car that destroyed everything it passed. He wasn't bothered by what other people thought of him. Then he got the girls and that only added to his happiness. He still freezes people, lives in the same house with the same dead lawn, and drives the same monstrous car. He still does not care what other people think of him.

This isn't a spiritual problem for me. It's a worldly problem. Society dislikes who I am and I'm not sure what to do about it. While I am fine living in a horrible house and driving a monstrous car, in real life the police arrest you, society condemns you, and they all send you to jail for the rest of your life if you start freezing people and steal the moon. And minions don't exist.

Seen the show 'Breaking Bad'? Walter did not do it for the money, that was never what he really wanted. He did it because it was who he really was. For so long his true self was being oppressed. He was a genius, but forced to teach High School chemistry classes due to circumstances. His talents were wasted, so what else would he become but a "monster"?

Know what I'm saying?

Okay, enough mothering around.
I think for a man, you need to stop feeling sorry for yourself.
it is not healthy, so stop it.
Hear me?

---

I feel the same way too, for the most part. I never seem to fit in anywhere. It doesn't matter where, or what, it is, or even if I am told that I will fit in, I just never do. I've done art classes, and tried to join art groups, where there was supposed to be people who shared the same interest in art that I do. And maybe they did. But I just didn't fit in with them, so I was ignored, and felt more and more isolated. That's happened in all the groups I've tried to join. It happened when I was working, with the added bullying to go with it. The same with volunteering and charity work. I just don't fit in. Even when someone says that they like people who don't fit in, huh, they still don't like me. I don't even fit in online. Even here, where others say that they are lonely too, I feel the same as all the other places I've tried to fit in to. Tried to find somewhere to belong, to find people to talk with .....

And nobody has, and nobody seems to want to, touch me. Or even be around me. I've never held hands, or even had my first kiss. The last real face-to-face social conversation I had with someone was back in 1996. Nobody can even bring themselves to go to a movie with me. Or share a hug. How else am I supposed to feel about myself, other than to think that I must be a monster?
=========================================
You too.
stop feeling sorry for yourself too.
enough said!

 

[Despicable Me]

I understand you perfectly because I feel the same way.

However, I'm too depressed today to give you any sort of positive response.

I know how that is. Don't let the depression get to you too much. Fight it off.
There is a place for us, you know? Even if we have to create it ourselves there is a place for us.

I feel the same way too, for the most part. I never seem to fit in anywhere. It doesn't matter where, or what, it is, or even if I am told that I will fit in, I just never do. I've done art classes, and tried to join art groups, where there was supposed to be people who shared the same interest in art that I do. And maybe they did. But I just didn't fit in with them, so I was ignored, and felt more and more isolated. That's happened in all the groups I've tried to join. It happened when I was working, with the added bullying to go with it. The same with volunteering and charity work. I just don't fit in. Even when someone says that they like people who don't fit in, huh, they still don't like me. I don't even fit in online. Even here, where others say that they are lonely too, I feel the same as all the other places I've tried to fit in to. Tried to find somewhere to belong, to find people to talk with .....

And nobody has, and nobody seems to want to, touch me. Or even be around me. I've never held hands, or even had my first kiss. The last real face-to-face social conversation I had with someone was back in 1996. Nobody can even bring themselves to go to a movie with me. Or share a hug. How else am I supposed to feel about myself, other than to think that I must be a monster?

For me, 'fitting in' is mostly just, as they say, 'hiding in plain sight', or 'wearing a mask every day'. At least for work and other social obligations.
I pretend to be the person others want me to be so I don't get fired and stuff like that. But I generally undermine people who really annoy me and I've gotten rather good at it, too.

The only reason I am even married is because she accepts me for me. We don't really have all that many things in common but she does accept me (most of the time), and that's really all I need in a relationship. Sometimes our differences do make it difficult but from what I understand that exists in every relationship.

I'm sure you could find someone, too. I'm not really sure why you can't since I don't know you, but I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who would accept you.

If either of you two need someone to talk to feel free to send me a message. (And if there is anyone else out there who feels like this and felt they could not post, feel free as well.) I can't promise I can relate to everything you're going through, but I can try my best. I am not the best at social relationships, obviously, so don't expect too much.

@madera23,
I know you mean well, but you don't seem to be listening. I don't have a self-esteem issue. People's insults and their silly labels don't bother me, at all. I'm not suppressing anything there. I am not in any way feeling sorry for myself. I don't actually care what anyone else thinks about me, to be honest. All I want is some people I can talk to. Spending so many years without finding many people to have genuine conversations with is the only thing that bothers me. It makes me feel very alone and out of place.

 

[user 115627]

It used to bother me a lot more that I had nothing in common with the greater part of humanity too. But just like you I discovered that even those I shared interests with weren't exactly on the same wavelength as me. So I redirected my efforts to look for only the most important trait in any human to me: Reason. People that don't judge quickly but take their time to form opinions...and still manage not to drift off into extremist territory. No particular intelligence is required for this - it can actually be counterproductive. I got some friends I can talk to about virtually anything without getting the impression I'm having a debate and my conversational partner is trying to dominate me with his/her opinion.

I don't care for other people's prejudices unless they're put into acts of aggression against me. Beyond that those who prefer to base the perception of their environment on clichés alone mean nothing to me.

If you decide to label yourself for no reason at all, you might as well choose a positive one. What's the possible motivation to label yourself as a monster if it doesn't even mean anything to you? Personally I can actually say it's fun to be the "bad guy" because people are so easy to fool. And it's even more amusing to witness them playing their little games among themselves and even falling for each other's deceptions. Since I've become very sceptical of most people's motivations for interacting with other people at all, I decided it would be better to repel those of questionable attitude that only seem to worry about pushing their own self-esteem and position...while I just sit back, observe and save what little kindness I have left for those that earn it. I'm neither villain nor hero, no matter what my mask says. But it seems wiser to scare off the part of society that only desires to judge others in order to elevate themselves.

Eh, that's enough holier-than-thou talk for now...

 

[madera23]

Uou
Emem
==========================================
If all is going so well with this problem, than why are you posting it here????? 7€

I understand you perfectly because I feel the same way.

However, I'm too depressed today to give you any sort of positive response.

I know how that is. Don't let the depression get to you too much. Fight it off.
There is a place for us, you know? Even if we have to create it ourselves there is a place for us.

I feel the same way too, for the most part. I never seem to fit in anywhere. It doesn't matter where, or what, it is, or even if I am told that I will fit in, I just never do. I've done art classes, and tried to join art groups, where there was supposed to be people who shared the same interest in art that I do. And maybe they did. But I just didn't fit in with them, so I was ignored, and felt more and more isolated. That's happened in all the groups I've tried to join. It happened when I was working, with the added bullying to go with it. The same with volunteering and charity work. I just don't fit in. Even when someone says that they like people who don't fit in, huh, they still don't like me. I don't even fit in online. Even here, where others say that they are lonely too, I feel the same as all the other places I've tried to fit in to. Tried to find somewhere to belong, to find people to talk with .....

And nobody has, and nobody seems to want to, touch me. Or even be around me. I've never held hands, or even had my first kiss. The last real face-to-face social conversation I had with someone was back in 1996. Nobody can even bring themselves to go to a movie with me. Or share a hug. How else am I supposed to feel about myself, other than to think that I must be a monster?

For me, 'fitting in' is mostly just, as they say, 'hiding in plain sight', or 'wearing a mask every day'. At least for work and other social obligations.
I pretend to be the person others want me to be so I don't get fired and stuff like that. But I generally undermine people who really annoy me and I've gotten rather good at it, too.

The only reason I am even married is because she accepts me for me. We don't really have all that many things in common but she does accept me (most of the time), and that's really all I need in a relationship. Sometimes our differences do make it difficult but from what I understand that exists in every relationship.

I'm sure you could find someone, too. I'm not really sure why you can't since I don't know you, but I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who would accept you.

If either of you two need someone to talk to feel free to send me a message. (And if there is anyone else out there who feels like this and felt they could not post, feel free as well.) I can't promise I can relate to everything you're going through, but I can try my best. I am not the best at social relationships, obviously, so don't expect too much.

@madera23,
I know you mean well, but you don't seem to be listening. I don't have a self-esteem issue. People's insults and their silly labels don't bother me, at all. I'm not suppressing anything there. I am not in any way feeling sorry for myself. I don't actually care what anyone else thinks about me, to be honest. All I want is some people I can talk to. Spending so many years without finding many people to have genuine conversations with is the only thing that bothers me. It makes me feel very alone and out of place.

---

I am listening to someone crying with his problem who is denying he has a problem.
if all is going so well, why are you posting your problem?
you are not making sense.

 

[Despicable Me]

I am listening to someone crying with his problem who is denying he has a problem.
if all is going so well, why are you posting your problem?
you are not making sense.

I don't hate myself, I hate the world around me.
It's not the same problem that most people have around here. Most of you have personal problems, internal emotional problems. And I have those, too, but I can deal with them myself and don't need help for those things. The problem I posted about in this topic is something different. I am certainly not denying the problem. I am very familiar with myself and who I am. I've spent years and years reflecting on exactly that.

This is why, when I first came here, I stated I do not really know why I am here. It is because it is not really a problem I think anyone else can help me with... I only posted it to see if anyone else felt the same way. And, if like I said, maybe someone had some suggestions to deal with the issue.

People that don't judge quickly but take their time to form opinions...and still manage not to drift off into extremist territory.

But what is wrong with extremism? Sometimes it is necessary.
For example, when there is an area in the world where brutal dictators are issuing out genocide, is it not appropriate to take extreme action against them? To go to the extremes to stop them? To essentially be an extremist against such behavior?

This is one of the problems I have with this world, with people. I do not understand your general unwillingness to become extremists against such extreme problems. We must! It saddens me so much that I am left alone feeling this way all the time...
Though, I do understand that the greatest aspect of this unwillingness just seems to be the fact that most people just don't see these extreme problems, so it becomes easy to ignore what you don't see. Out of sight, out of mind, apparently.
I am not unfamiliar with the peoples' psychology. I can sympathize with them in many ways, but at the same time I must wholeheartedly disagree.

If you decide to label yourself for no reason at all, you might as well choose a positive one. What's the possible motivation to label yourself as a monster if it doesn't even mean anything to you?

I find it humorous and it is a demonstration of the fact that it doesn't bother me.
Like if someone were to literally call me a "monster", I might react and say "Oh, look at me, I'm a monster! Ooooh, watch out I'm going to eat you!". Or, if I had a real-life freeze ray, like Gru, I'd just use that.

Look at Pokemon, for example. These creatures are literally "monsters", but most society is not even slightly bothered by the fact that they are aimed at children, that children enjoy them, and that parents regularly buy them for their children.
Maybe it is because these monsters are only fictional characters, but if they were real would anyone act any differently? No, because when people look at what is really there they don't see horrible monsters, they see cute little creatures.

Personally I can actually say it's fun to be the "bad guy" because people are so easy to fool. And it's even more amusing to witness them playing their little games among themselves and even falling for each other's deceptions. Since I've become very sceptical of most people's motivations for interacting with other people at all, I decided it would be better to repel those of questionable attitude that only seem to worry about pushing their own self-esteem and position...while I just sit back, observe and save what little kindness I have left for those that earn it. I'm neither villain nor hero, no matter what my mask says. But it seems wiser to scare off the part of society that only desires to judge others in order to elevate themselves.

There are two problems with this concept.
One, you are just wearing another mask to have fun. In wearing of that mask it prevents you from actually being who you are.

Two, by toying with other people, by manipulating them for your own personal "fun", you are in fact just doing exactly the same thing they do, the same thing you condemn them for. You are judging others, manipulating them for personal use, and elevating yourself. By pretending to be the "bad guy" you actually are becoming the real bad guy.

But this isn't the sort of thing I am talking about. I don't do that, exactly.
I am do not wear any masks to scare people, I wear them so I don't.
The real me is what scares everyone... People who actually know who I am do not want to be around me, because I am, what some would call, a "villain", a "monster".

This isn't just a label for my masks, this is the label they use for the real me.
Do you understand? I do not manipulate people to have fun. I do not pitch them against each other for my amusement.
If I manipulate people it is because I must do so. If I pitch them against each other it is because I have no real choice in the matter. I do not do it for personal gain. It makes me unhappy to see other people unhappy - but I must bear that and accept it, and so must they. Sometimes people do not like the medicines they are given when they are ill, but everyone knows that it aids them to get better. So what must be done must be done.
I do what I believe is right, but inevitably that same thing is what many others believe is wrong.

Do you get what I'm saying?

 

[FPL2014]

People don't want your sorrows, they want your smiles.

Why would they waste their time with you when you can't offer them a good laugh?

This is how human society works. This is why it's so despicable, superficial and meaningless. An unnecessary farce.

 

[Despicable Me]

People don't want your sorrows, they want your smiles.

Why would they waste their time with you when you can't offer them a good laugh?

This is how human society works. This is why it's so despicable, superficial and meaningless. An unnecessary farce.

I understand what you're saying, but I have to disagree with some of it.
Society has many, many problems but it's not meaningless. Not everything is just about laughs and smiles. There is much that has real 'meaning', you just have to find it. You have to look in the right place. And it's very hard to do that when society is like this. And there are solutions. The real problem with society is that those solutions are not accepted.

My problem isn't that society is meaningless, or even that it is messed up exactly.
My problem is that I truly want to fix things, but I have so many barriers to doing so.

Let me ask you guys something, so maybe you will understand what I mean.
If you could be someone like Jesus, or Ghandi, or Martin Luther King Jr... Someone who can and will and does change the world for the better, but in doing so it costs you your life, just as it cost them, would you do it?
And what if it took even more than that, but provided change that significantly improved lives for everyone and solved many of societies problems? But at the cost of your very soul, the very essence of your being: Your personality, who you are, who you want to be, your dreams, your passions, your inspirations and aspirations, and even your family.

If you say 'No', you cannot be the Hero of any story. You aren't in any stories except as the villain.
If you say 'Yes', you must accept the consequences. Not only does it cost you everything, but some people might see you as a Hero, while almost everyone who you meet, before you lose everything, will see you only as a monster.

So tell me, is it worth it to be part of the story? This is my question.

 

[user 115627]

But what is wrong with extremism? Sometimes it is necessary.
For example, when there is an area in the world where brutal dictators are issuing out genocide, is it not appropriate to take extreme action against them? To go to the extremes to stop them? To essentially be an extremist against such behavior?

This is one of the problems I have with this world, with people. I do not understand your general unwillingness to become extremists against such extreme problems. We must! It saddens me so much that I am left alone feeling this way all the time...
Though, I do understand that the greatest aspect of this unwillingness just seems to be the fact that most people just don't see these extreme problems, so it becomes easy to ignore what you don't see. Out of sight, out of mind, apparently.
I am not unfamiliar with the peoples' psychology. I can sympathize with them in many ways, but at the same time I must wholeheartedly disagree.

Plain and simple, I disagree with all sorts of extremism. I don't believe in fighting fire with fire...this is what the majority of humanity is already doing and I see how well this is working out. The funny thing is that rise to power of many contemporary dictators is just a consequence of decades of bleeding third-world-countries dry. Hell, in most cases having a brutal dictator suppressing the working population of a country is an economical advantage for us. . Every now and then the "civilized nations" still play world police and off a dictator to prove that we're the good guys. Moral ambiguity all the way...eh, rant over. I didn't come here to discuss politics anyway.

I find it humorous and it is a demonstration of the fact that it doesn't bother me.
Like if someone were to literally call me a "monster", I might react and say "Oh, look at me, I'm a monster! Ooooh, watch out I'm going to eat you!". Or, if I had a real-life freeze ray, like Gru, I'd just use that.

Look at Pokemon, for example. These creatures are literally "monsters", but most society is not even slightly bothered by the fact that they are aimed at children, that children enjoy them, and that parents regularly buy them for their children.
Maybe it is because these monsters are only fictional characters, but if they were real would anyone act any differently? No, because when people look at what is really there they don't see horrible monsters, they see cute little creatures.

Suit yourself then. A name's just a name anyway - it's what you do that makes the difference. But then I have to wonder to what degree freezing other people is still considered decency...I'm afraid that all this relation to fictional characters is not getting anywhere. It's just elevating the discussion to an incomprehensible meta-level while this is about yourself alone.

There are two problems with this concept.
One, you are just wearing another mask to have fun. In wearing of that mask it prevents you from actually being who you are.

Two, by toying with other people, by manipulating them for your own personal "fun", you are in fact just doing exactly the same thing they do, the same thing you condemn them for. You are judging others, manipulating them for personal use, and elevating yourself. By pretending to be the "bad guy" you actually are becoming the real bad guy.

But this isn't the sort of thing I am talking about. I don't do that, exactly.
I am do not wear any masks to scare people, I wear them so I don't.
The real me is what scares everyone... People who actually know who I am do not want to be around me, because I am, what some would call, a "villain", a "monster".

This isn't just a label for my masks, this is the label they use for the real me.
Do you understand? I do not manipulate people to have fun. I do not pitch them against each other for my amusement.
If I manipulate people it is because I must do so. If I pitch them against each other it is because I have no real choice in the matter. I do not do it for personal gain. It makes me unhappy to see other people unhappy - but I must bear that and accept it, and so must they. Sometimes people do not like the medicines they are given when they are ill, but everyone knows that it aids them to get better. So what must be done must be done.
I do what I believe is right, but inevitably that same thing is what many others believe is wrong.

Do you get what I'm saying?

I don't see a problem with this. I am who I really am in private and among those I feel comfortable with. This is good enough for me. I'm no fool that believes he can change the rules of the game. I used to believe so, but I left my juvenile idealism behind a long time ago.

Maybe I should specify my statement: Being the bad guy can be fun because people's reactions are so absurd, but truth be told it's just my personal safety device. To have fun never was and never will be my objective. I just limit my interactions with other people to a minimum, but there's still a lot of things people attribute to a guy that simply doesn't talk much and smiles rarely. So I wouldn't want to be called a manipulator for merely preferring to stay quiet in most environments.

From what you've shown of yourself so far, you still don't seem like a monster or a villain to me. You got a strong moral code which is also why I don't understand the whole "monster" depiction. You can't force the world to accept who you are though. You say you hate the world and society and this is your right. People have certain personal preferences when it comes down who they mingle with and they have every right to do so as well. And that's all there's to it. As long you're not doing something against the law, you'll have to deal with people's idle talk and silent judgements but these don't direct the course of your life.

So no, I'm probably not getting what you're saying...

 

[madera23]

Uou
Emem
==========================================
If all is going so well with this problem, than why are you posting it here????? 7€

I understand you perfectly because I feel the same way.

However, I'm too depressed today to give you any sort of positive response.

I know how that is. Don't let the depression get to you too much. Fight it off.
There is a place for us, you know? Even if we have to create it ourselves there is a place for us.

I feel the same way too, for the most part. I never seem to fit in anywhere. It doesn't matter where, or what, it is, or even if I am told that I will fit in, I just never do. I've done art classes, and tried to join art groups, where there was supposed to be people who shared the same interest in art that I do. And maybe they did. But I just didn't fit in with them, so I was ignored, and felt more and more isolated. That's happened in all the groups I've tried to join. It happened when I was working, with the added bullying to go with it. The same with volunteering and charity work. I just don't fit in. Even when someone says that they like people who don't fit in, huh, they still don't like me. I don't even fit in online. Even here, where others say that they are lonely too, I feel the same as all the other places I've tried to fit in to. Tried to find somewhere to belong, to find people to talk with .....

And nobody has, and nobody seems to want to, touch me. Or even be around me. I've never held hands, or even had my first kiss. The last real face-to-face social conversation I had with someone was back in 1996. Nobody can even bring themselves to go to a movie with me. Or share a hug. How else am I supposed to feel about myself, other than to think that I must be a monster?

For me, 'fitting in' is mostly just, as they say, 'hiding in plain sight', or 'wearing a mask every day'. At least for work and other social obligations.
I pretend to be the person others want me to be so I don't get fired and stuff like that. But I generally undermine people who really annoy me and I've gotten rather good at it, too.

The only reason I am even married is because she accepts me for me. We don't really have all that many things in common but she does accept me (most of the time), and that's really all I need in a relationship. Sometimes our differences do make it difficult but from what I understand that exists in every relationship.

I'm sure you could find someone, too. I'm not really sure why you can't since I don't know you, but I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who would accept you.

If either of you two need someone to talk to feel free to send me a message. (And if there is anyone else out there who feels like this and felt they could not post, feel free as well.) I can't promise I can relate to everything you're going through, but I can try my best. I am not the best at social relationships, obviously, so don't expect too much.

@madera23,
I know you mean well, but you don't seem to be listening. I don't have a self-esteem issue. People's insults and their silly labels don't bother me, at all. I'm not suppressing anything there. I am not in any way feeling sorry for myself. I don't actually care what anyone else thinks about me, to be honest. All I want is some people I can talk to. Spending so many years without finding many people to have genuine conversations with is the only thing that bothers me. It makes me feel very alone and out of place.

---

I am listening to someone crying with his problem who is denying he has a problem.
if all is going so well, why are you posting your problem?
you are not making sense.
[/quote

I would like to refer to something that has helped me to understand where your problem began.
Go to fhu.com There is a great meditation takes only 11 minuets and it is free. "antidoteforall.com".

 

[Despicable Me]

Plain and simple, I disagree with all sorts of extremism. I don't believe in fighting fire with fire...this is what the majority of humanity is already doing and I see how well this is working out. The funny thing is that rise to power of many contemporary dictators is just a consequence of decades of bleeding third-world-countries dry. Hell, in most cases having a brutal dictator suppressing the working population of a country is an economical advantage for us. . Every now and then the "civilized nations" still play world police and off a dictator to prove that we're the good guys. Moral ambiguity all the way...eh, rant over. I didn't come here to discuss politics anyway.

Hmm, maybe you do get me.

Suit yourself then. A name's just a name anyway - it's what you do that makes the difference. But then I have to wonder to what degree freezing other people is still considered decency...I'm afraid that all this relation to fictional characters is not getting anywhere. It's just elevating the discussion to an incomprehensible meta-level while this is about yourself alone.

I am being intentionally vague because of the subject matter. This 'incomprehensible meta-level' is perhaps the only way I can truly convey what I mean without putting people off too much.

People like the story of Gru, the movie 'Despicable Me' is beloved by both adults and children.
However, as opposed to what people enjoy in fiction they would actually prefer not to get blasted with a freeze ray or have their moon stolen. They surely don't like it when people go around popping childrens' balloons.

I don't see a problem with this. I am who I really am in private and among those I feel comfortable with. This is good enough for me. I'm no fool that believes he can change the rules of the game. I used to believe so, but I left my juvenile idealism behind a long time ago.

Is it really juvenile or idealism to believe that you can 'change the rules of the game'? How so?

Maybe I should specify my statement: Being the bad guy can be fun because people's reactions are so absurd, but truth be told it's just my personal safety device. To have fun never was and never will be my objective. I just limit my interactions with other people to a minimum, but there's still a lot of things people attribute to a guy that simply doesn't talk much and smiles rarely. So I wouldn't want to be called a manipulator for merely preferring to stay quiet in most environments.

It's alright. I'm not judging anyone. I am 'the quiet one', too.
I am so quiet, in fact, that most people do not even notice me.

As long you're not doing something against the law, you'll have to deal with people's idle talk and silent judgements but these don't direct the course of your life.

So no, I'm probably not getting what you're saying...

... But what if I want to do things which are against the law, because the law itself was written against people like me?
If you believe the rules of the game can't be changed, maybe that is because you've only learned to play by the rules?
But what use do rules have if you're trying to change them?

I can't think of any other people so widely accepted as heroes, so...
Do you think Jesus, Gandhi, and Martin Luther King Jr. played by the rules? That they did not break any laws?

That's the game-changer. Is it juvenile? Is it idealistic?

 

[user 115627]

I am being intentionally vague because of the subject matter. This 'incomprehensible meta-level' is perhaps the only way I can truly convey what I mean without putting people off too much.

People like the story of Gru, the movie 'Despicable Me' is beloved by both adults and children.
However, as opposed to what people enjoy in fiction they would actually prefer not to get blasted with a freeze ray or have their moon stolen. They surely don't like it when people go around popping childrens' balloons.

It's still a movie. An animated movie on top which is loved by adults and children because it was aimed at them. Don't overinterpret this. There have also been folks that fancied Hannibal Lecter for his supreme intellect and his personal guidelines when dealing with people that tried to cross him. Doesn't mean people start eating each others' livers now.

Is it really juvenile or idealism to believe that you can 'change the rules of the game'? How so?

Because you can't change society as a whole. Neither can you change human nature. And more importantly, none of that can happen by force.

..
... But what if I want to do things which are against the law, because the law itself was written against people like me?
If you believe the rules of the game can't be changed, maybe that is because you've only learned to play by the rules?
But what use do rules have if you're trying to change them?

I can't think of any other people so widely accepted as heroes, so...
Do you think Jesus, Gandhi, and Martin Luther King Jr. played by the rules? That they did not break any laws?

That's the game-changer. Is it juvenile? Is it idealistic?

The rules of the (social) game don't equal the law - that should've become obvious by now. Regardless, maybe you should get a little more precise.

The law was written by people so it is naturally flawed, but it isn't unfair for the most part. So claiming it was written against "people like you" just makes you sound like a martyr. You might think differently, but you are not unique in your ways. And throwing around big names of prophets and activists doesn't support your cause.

Straight up: What characterizes you? And what acts against the law would you want to commit that are for some reason "necessary"? Do you feel oppressed?

 

[Despicable Me]

Do you feel oppressed?

Everyone is oppressed, most just never realize it.
That is all I can say on that matter.

 

[Cucuboth]

I understand you perfectly because I feel the same way.

However, I'm too depressed today to give you any sort of positive response.

I know how that is. Don't let the depression get to you too much. Fight it off.
There is a place for us, you know? Even if we have to create it ourselves there is a place for us.

I feel the same way too, for the most part. I never seem to fit in anywhere. It doesn't matter where, or what, it is, or even if I am told that I will fit in, I just never do. I've done art classes, and tried to join art groups, where there was supposed to be people who shared the same interest in art that I do. And maybe they did. But I just didn't fit in with them, so I was ignored, and felt more and more isolated. That's happened in all the groups I've tried to join. It happened when I was working, with the added bullying to go with it. The same with volunteering and charity work. I just don't fit in. Even when someone says that they like people who don't fit in, huh, they still don't like me. I don't even fit in online. Even here, where others say that they are lonely too, I feel the same as all the other places I've tried to fit in to. Tried to find somewhere to belong, to find people to talk with .....

And nobody has, and nobody seems to want to, touch me. Or even be around me. I've never held hands, or even had my first kiss. The last real face-to-face social conversation I had with someone was back in 1996. Nobody can even bring themselves to go to a movie with me. Or share a hug. How else am I supposed to feel about myself, other than to think that I must be a monster?

For me, 'fitting in' is mostly just, as they say, 'hiding in plain sight', or 'wearing a mask every day'. At least for work and other social obligations.
I pretend to be the person others want me to be so I don't get fired and stuff like that. But I generally undermine people who really annoy me and I've gotten rather good at it, too.

The only reason I am even married is because she accepts me for me. We don't really have all that many things in common but she does accept me (most of the time), and that's really all I need in a relationship. Sometimes our differences do make it difficult but from what I understand that exists in every relationship.

I'm sure you could find someone, too. I'm not really sure why you can't since I don't know you, but I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who would accept you.

If either of you two need someone to talk to feel free to send me a message. (And if there is anyone else out there who feels like this and felt they could not post, feel free as well.) I can't promise I can relate to everything you're going through, but I can try my best. I am not the best at social relationships, obviously, so don't expect too much.

@madera23,
I know you mean well, but you don't seem to be listening. I don't have a self-esteem issue. People's insults and their silly labels don't bother me, at all. I'm not suppressing anything there. I am not in any way feeling sorry for myself. I don't actually care what anyone else thinks about me, to be honest. All I want is some people I can talk to. Spending so many years without finding many people to have genuine conversations with is the only thing that bothers me. It makes me feel very alone and out of place.

I suppose, by 'fitting in' I don't mean something like being the same as everyone else. But just by feeling that I'm accepted somewhere, by someone. You're lucky that you have someone does accept you. I can't even really put in to words how much I long for that feeling of being accepted. To be accepted as me. To find someone who isn't seemingly afraid or disgusted to be seen with me. And to touch me (and be touched by me). I used to believe that someone would. I'd still like to believe. I guess that's why I came here, originally, it was to hopefully make connections with people who might be a bit more accepting than most of the rest of society seems to be. You would think the internet is supposed to be. It's supposed to be an easy place to find someone to talk to, and somewhere to fit in. But, in my 20 years of using the internet, I never really have. Just the same as real life, really.