I dont understand ...

[Mary Mary]

This is reality. If all other things are equal, a man will choose a supermodel over any one of us women on this board. If all other things are equal, a woman will choose the man who's chief of surgery over any guy on this board.

What sexually attracts men and women to each other has little to nothing to do with you consciously want.

This is only for initial sexual attraction. Hopefully, you will have picked a mate who will look past your flaws as you age and lose the characteristics that attracted them to you in the first place because of the emotional bond that you form.

Enlightened people do want a mate that's noble, honest, generous, mature, dependable, etc.; however, I totally do not believe anyone who tells me that their sexual attraction isn't governed by superficial traits. Is it possible to put some conscious regulation on your sexual attraction? Yes, I do. I think even if a guy has all the right things, but if he's a criminal, I'm not going to want date him.

However, I not going to lie myself and the world and pretend like I can be just as attracted to a guy who's timid, short, ugly, broke, asexual, and fat like I can a guy who's confident, tall, handsome, wealthy, sexual, and in good shape even if the first guy is a much nicer guy.

 

[brickinthewall]

Here comes Mary , leaving me speechless , yet again , lol. I'll give this some more thought and debate more tomorrow can't think at 2AM , good night!

 

[Mary Mary]

Here comes Mary , leaving me speechless , yet again , lol. I'll give this some more thought and debate more tomorrow can't think at 2AM , good night!

g'night, mate

 

[Nina]

No offense socrates , but I prefer Nina's answer lol. Although I believe there is a lot of truth in yours too.

We ALLLLLLLL prefer Nina's answer!!!!

Dude, way back in the day, I wanted my sweet, adorable, giggling conservative Catholic bride who I was going to wait til marriage for. Hell I STILL wish that could be my reality.

Then I realized...

... in every social group, all the women are being dated and dumped by two central guys, usually thugs, pretty-boys, or gym fiends, and every woman in the social group is madly in love with one of the two alphas.

... even abstinent Catholic girls are ALL taken by cadets, pretty boys, or bad dudes who know how to suck up to parents and lead a phony life, and that all the beta Catholic guys are left behind, as perfect prey for the priests to recruit them and put their celibacy to good use.

... even pretty Muslim girls who wear HEADSCARVES are all engaged to Muslim bodybuilders, Muslim male models, or wealthy older Muslim businessmen by time they are 23.

I'm not trying to insult women by saying this. This is just how the dating game works. Pretty women have every dude in the world basically hitting on her all day. Of course she's gonna have a ton of power, and will only select the best of the best. I don't blame them either.

I want every dude on this website who suffers from loneliness and sexual frustration to be cured. But it's just going to happen by looking for these needles in the haystack. Sure there are women out there who fit the description that Nina and others talk about, but what makes YOU think you're so special that one of these rare women is just going to come along and accept you and your flaws. It just ISN'T practical.

You are gambling with your genes and their ability to be passed on. This is not a laughing matter. You cannot wait around for something to happen. You need to play EVERY good card you are dealt, or else you will lose the game.

Socrates--
A lot of what you say I actually see some of the "real" validity in it. BUT...Once the time frame moves forward and the pretty girl, average girl, etc has gone through her share of well built alphas with fat wallets, many times they evolve and mature enough to find qualities other than muscles and cash to be the more attractive in the mix.

I think, what I want to do is to put this in a perspective that might happen a few years after what your perspective reflects. I do totally think everyone should work out if they can and keep themselves in as good a condition as possible. No arguments here on that. I workout daily and completely enjoy it. But for those who can't for whatever reason, do what you recommend I just want to throw out a thought that their case isn't hopeless. There are others out there who could see past whatever flaws they have and love them.

I am ending a 20 yr. marriage, to a first class alpha male, myself. I know what I'm talking about. My perspective has changed entirely from the 20 yr. old girl who saw him and fell in love. If ever I seek a permanent relationship again it wont be based on finance, just muscles or designer clothes and a career in the professions. Been there and done that, next time around I want depth, heart, consideration and a man who can fully communicate and above all LAUGH....

On sexual attraction: What turns a 20 year old on can change vastly by the time she hits her 30's and 40's....

 

[Mr. Sir]

No offense socrates , but I prefer Nina's answer lol. Although I believe there is a lot of truth in yours too.

We ALLLLLLLL prefer Nina's answer!!!!

Dude, way back in the day, I wanted my sweet, adorable, giggling conservative Catholic bride who I was going to wait til marriage for. Hell I STILL wish that could be my reality.

Then I realized...

... in every social group, all the women are being dated and dumped by two central guys, usually thugs, pretty-boys, or gym fiends, and every woman in the social group is madly in love with one of the two alphas.

... even abstinent Catholic girls are ALL taken by cadets, pretty boys, or bad dudes who know how to suck up to parents and lead a phony life, and that all the beta Catholic guys are left behind, as perfect prey for the priests to recruit them and put their celibacy to good use.

... even pretty Muslim girls who wear HEADSCARVES are all engaged to Muslim bodybuilders, Muslim male models, or wealthy older Muslim businessmen by time they are 23.

I'm not trying to insult women by saying this. This is just how the dating game works. Pretty women have every dude in the world basically hitting on her all day. Of course she's gonna have a ton of power, and will only select the best of the best. I don't blame them either.

I want every dude on this website who suffers from loneliness and sexual frustration to be cured. But it's just going to happen by looking for these needles in the haystack. Sure there are women out there who fit the description that Nina and others talk about, but what makes YOU think you're so special that one of these rare women is just going to come along and accept you and your flaws. It just ISN'T practical.

You are gambling with your genes and their ability to be passed on. This is not a laughing matter. You cannot wait around for something to happen. You need to play EVERY good card you are dealt, or else you will lose the game.

Socrates--
A lot of what you say I actually see some of the "real" validity in it. BUT...Once the time frame moves forward and the pretty girl, average girl, etc has gone through her share of well built alphas with fat wallets, many times they evolve and mature enough to find qualities other than muscles and cash to be the more attractive in the mix.

I think, what I want to do is to put this in a perspective that might happen a few years after what your perspective reflects. I do totally think everyone should work out if they can and keep themselves in as good a condition as possible. No arguments here on that. I workout daily and completely enjoy it. But for those who can't for whatever reason, do what you recommend I just want to throw out a thought that their case isn't hopeless. There are others out there who could see past whatever flaws they have and love them.

I am ending a 20 yr. marriage, to a first class alpha male, myself. I know what I'm talking about. My perspective has changed entirely from the 20 yr. old girl who saw him and fell in love. If ever I seek a permanent relationship again it wont be based on finance, just muscles or designer clothes and a career in the professions. Been there and done that, next time around I want depth, heart, consideration and a man who can fully communicate and above all LAUGH....

On sexual attraction: What turns a 20 year old on can change vastly by the time she hits her 30's and 40's....

I don't disagree with anything you've said. I'm sorry that you are going through the pain of divorce, I don't wish bad things like that on anyone, but you have just once again, reinforced my opinions on how the mating game works.

You are now 40 years old, and you are experiencing consequences of a mistake you made in your 20s. The young guys on the forum here are NOT trying to get married or date a 40 year old divorced woman. They (they being the guys here who want to toughen up and improve themselves) deserve a woman their age.

It's important to tell guys in their TWENTIES, how to attract girls in their TWENTIES. Now before you shame me for saying that I am trying to train guys to be pimps, players, and deadbeat partners, all I want them to do is experience what they ARE SUPPOSED TO experience at their age.

I actually find it a little insulting, even though I know you don't mean it that way. It's like you're saying that these guys on the forum should sit around like wimps and wait on girls as they date "alphas" and "gammas" throughout their 20s, and then FINALLY settle down with Mr. Nice Guy. Do you know how demeaning that is for a guy?

I'm not trying to attack you, or trivialize your situation, but you've just basically confirmed that you are giving 20-year-olds advice on how to attract a 40-year-old woman.

---

dude.....do you actually listen to half the honeysuckle you say?

Yeah, what's up?

 

[Mary Mary]

Men in their 40s who date women will tell you that women don't change much.

I just came from a date, and we were both talking about a very weird paradox you'll see when you get to our age. I've met and dated women and men who're highly educated and intelligent and successful at their professions. They're obviously capable of critical thinking in their jobs; however, when it comes to dating, it's like dating high school kids. Very few people grow up.

I was talking to two women in their 40s who were psychiatrists, and it was like talking to high school girls. One lady was complaining how she had "bad luck with men." Another slept with a pilot who she had been warned was a player; and then was complaining to our mutual acquaintance how the pilot wasn't calling her.

At our age people do understand better that there's more than just looks, money, etc; but that understanding isn't implemented any better in your 40s than in your 20s because you have so little conscious control over what governs your sexual attraction to other people.

The things I do differently now is that I've learned to better recognize when a romantic situation is turning bad and to walk away sooner. I'll also give a nice guy a chance when I might not before. However, if a guy is too lacking in alpha characteristics, I can't get attracted to him even if I wanted to be.

 

[Badjedidude]

I just came from a date, and we were both talking about a very weird paradox you'll see when you get to our age. I've met and dated women and men who're highly educated and intelligent and successful at their professions. They're obviously capable of critical thinking in their jobs; however, when it comes to dating, it's like dating high school kids. Very few people grow up.

You've just described emotional immaturity. Yeah, a person can be a top-notch scientist and professional in their field... and yet still be a tumbling bucket of spilling and sloshing emotions that run every which way and only cause trouble to everyone who gets splashed upon. That is emotional immaturity.

It's like the difference between wisdom and knowledge. Common Sense vs. Technical Sense.

Humanity is filled with fun little paradoxical dualities like this. Nice, eh?

 

[Nina]

Socrates--
I have to thank you for giving me a, better than average chuckle with this. My intention was NEVER to advise 20 yr. olds on how to get a cougar. There is a wide age range in here and my goal is to offer thoughts that nearly any of them regardless of age or sex could use. I've also NEVER stated that young men should "sit around" anywhere and "allow" young women to do anything. Folks who "sit around" aren't moving among the masses in order to find anyone so their choices are going to be limited. Next, young women aren't "allowed or not" they make choices the same as the men. A man can work out, dress well and hold a high ranking position but if he is a ****** the good looking gals will walk away. Look at any Hollywood scandal sheet to prove this out. Beautiful, wealthy folks have as many issues in their relationships and hanging onto them as anyone else. I have always agreed that all folks benefit from exercise and care in selecting their clothes but my main point has always been to learn effective ways to communicate with others. To practice socialization in "public" so the skills can be developed and refined. I would never attempt to coach folks in their twenties on how to get folks in their forties...I don't even know where you came up with that....

It's never about just doing ONE set of practices. It's about developing practices that fits the individual. We always have been and always will be a highly diverse species. It's what makes us so fascinating.

I think it is equally demeaning that you overlook the "average" 20 year olds who, for one reason or another cannot become the well toned, dressed and accomplished little money makers that you state repeatedly, they must be. I do think they deserve a person their own age and all I have ever stated is that if they learn basic honesty, and as BJD stated "emotional maturity" on some level and then look for a person who shares those traits with them, they have a decent chance in finding happiness. I think it's very unfair to say all a young man needs is some muscles, a fat wallet, good job and nice clothes. It might be enough to get a few bimbos in the sack but it isn't always enough to sustain a relationship over time.

 

[SophiaGrace]

bump: i think we need another socrates response.

 

[Mr. Sir]

I really have nothing to say right now. I am just about to go lift weights. I got a bunch of stuff done today.

 

[SophiaGrace]

I got a bunch of stuff done today.

That's great.

 

[jjam]

However, I not going to lie myself and the world and pretend like I can be just as attracted to a guy who's timid, short, ugly, broke, asexual, and fat like I can a guy who's confident, tall, handsome, wealthy, sexual, and in good shape even if the first guy is a much nicer guy.

I guess I'd be balling if I had the loot. I have everything else mentioned (and much more of the "not superficial" breed of traits) going for me. I believe one day I'll have the loot too. If THEN the girl surfaces, I FEAR it may get a bit tricky for someone like me who has endured being single for so many years. I QUESTION if I'll be able to trust that the woman who'll suddenly appear in my life at the point of loot will want me for me the way I've been longing for throughout my time without it. Will I love her the way I may have once been capable of? She could truly love me, but impaired vision to recognize it is a POTENTIAL side effect of many consecutive years of being single.

Do women ever think about that when they pass up on guys who don't have money? Do they even care if the guy speculates that it is less about him and more about what he has to a point he really struggles to give a flying **** about her beyond sex? Because in MY mind, that is what the deal COULD be if I don't find LOVE while a woman couldn't possibly be attracted to me for the ******* MATERIALS I have. THAT will be reciprocation of "love", no? What a love affair...

I can't speak for other men, but I sometimes think about how many wonder if this is what will become of them. Let me just say for the record that I HOPE it will not of me.

 

[Mary Mary]

However, I not going to lie myself and the world and pretend like I can be just as attracted to a guy who's timid, short, ugly, broke, asexual, and fat like I can a guy who's confident, tall, handsome, wealthy, sexual, and in good shape even if the first guy is a much nicer guy.

I guess I'd be balling if I had the loot. I have everything else mentioned (and much more of the "not superficial" breed of traits) going for me. I believe one day I'll have the loot too. If THEN the girl surfaces, I FEAR it may get a bit tricky for someone like me who has endured being single for so many years. I QUESTION if I'll be able to trust that the woman who'll suddenly appear in my life at the point of loot will want me for me the way I've been longing for throughout my time without it. Will I love her the way I may have once been capable of? She could truly love me, but impaired vision to recognize it is a POTENTIAL side effect of many consecutive years of being single.

Do women ever think about that when they pass up on guys who don't have money? Do they even care if the guy speculates that it is less about him and more about what he has to a point he really struggles to give a flying **** about her beyond sex? Because in MY mind, that is what the deal COULD be if I don't find LOVE while a woman couldn't possibly be attracted to me for the ******* MATERIALS I have. THAT will be reciprocation of "love", no? What a love affair...

I can't speak for other men, but I sometimes think about how many wonder if this is what will become of them. Let me just say for the record that I HOPE it will not of me.

I'm really tired, and maybe that's the problem; but I'm not sure what you're saying, but I'll try to respond.

A woman can get attracted to a man because of his money like a man can get attracted to woman because of her beauty. Disgusting? Yes, but it's biology, and that lust can turn to real love so that if the man loses his money or the woman loses her looks, they will still stay together because of the emotional bond that they form.

However, the problem with money is that a woman will date/marry a man just because of his money; and that's the kind of woman who will leave a guy if he loses his money.

How do you tell the difference? I don't know. That's why you should always get a pre-nup. I love men with money, but I always pay for half of everything. Just as I appreciate it when a man shows me that it's not just about the sex. I want him it's not just about the money. I would also sign a pre-nup. I may think their success makes them sexy, but I'm not a mooch, and my goal is to find a person to bond with so that if he does lose his money, I'll still stay.

---

I just came from a date, and we were both talking about a very weird paradox you'll see when you get to our age. I've met and dated women and men who're highly educated and intelligent and successful at their professions. They're obviously capable of critical thinking in their jobs; however, when it comes to dating, it's like dating high school kids. Very few people grow up.

You've just described emotional immaturity. Yeah, a person can be a top-notch scientist and professional in their field... and yet still be a tumbling bucket of spilling and sloshing emotions that run every which way and only cause trouble to everyone who gets splashed upon. That is emotional immaturity.

It's like the difference between wisdom and knowledge. Common Sense vs. Technical Sense.

Humanity is filled with fun little paradoxical dualities like this. Nice, eh?

Ayup