AncientBard said:
You're a PK and you've never heard of the Reformation of the Church? Martin Luther? Augustine? Arminius? or Calvinism? Your church did not teach anything about church history? Your statement is absolutely wrong none of the reformed churches believe in free will, not one. They have the Doctrines of Grace and Election however, so you don't have to spend your whole week looking up all those people try these two areas in church history: Calvinism Vs Arminianism and the Doctrines of Grace and Election. That should give you some decent information of what I'm speaking of. Who knows maybe it will spark a good interest one you can be grateful for.
Actually, yes I have heard about the Reformation, and NO, you're still wrong.
Only a
few of those churches espoused the ideas of predestination and lack of free will an a spiritual scale. And most church denominations these days, while built from those early "Protestant" faiths, don't fully believe in the early doctrines set forth by the Reformation churches.
AncientBard said:
Every Church I've ever been too with the exception of the Unitarian Universalist Church all teach the same Doctrine: if you don't believe the path to God is through Christ Jesus you will burn in all eternity in fire and brimstone in pain and suffering, because god loves you.
Not everyone sees this as being "fear-based." To a lot of people, it's not the threat of hellfire that causes them to strive to serve their church, but their thankfulness that God created them and gave them life.
If you've never before encountered this outlook in a church, then I'd say you've been going to the wrong churches.
AncientBard said:
That's utterly and completely fear based in every persons opinion that I've ever met with the possible exception of you. I guess every Asian, Jew, Hindu, Buddhist and Taoist through the middle ages is burning in all eternity by your logic. The gospel was preached in all these areas of the world by then, instead most of them went with the religion they were taught that was 8000 years older then Christianity.
Ummm... "MY logic?" How is any of this
my logic? I'm not the one saying everyone's doomed to hell here.
And one religion being older than another doesn't make it more relevant or true than another.
AncientBard said:
Who just judged who? Did I ever say I was not a Christian? maybe you should remove the plank from your own eye before aiding and assisting me in the removal of mine. I think it's human nature to experience bitterness in lot's of things, think about how Raiders fans feel this week! My ex GF just kicked my arse by 4 strokes in 18 full holes of golf this weekend, talk about bitter! Her and her fancy new Lynx clubs grrrrrrrr......
Haha... Raiders.
Oh, yes, I understand bitterness...
I'm a KC Chiefs fan...
AncientBard said:
I do, and you're being very civil and kind and I really appreciate it. You know how bad religion is to speak about in person let alone on an obscure forum on teh interwebs. The sad thing is you don't get my point, you haven't even made an attempt and I believe you haven't because you're afraid. Afraid to know the truth of what it is church history really teaches us. I sincerely hope you go and educate yourself on the reformation, Martin Luther, Grace and Election.
... and I really do appreciate your candor and civility.
You're right; oo many people get extremely nasty when discussing this subject... as if simply disagreeing about religion is a personal insult!
Hah but I'm not "afraid of the truth," simply because I disagree with your viewpoint. That's a bit asinine to say, really. I
am educated on the Reformation... but I see it from a different perspective than you do. Nothing wrong with that, is there?
AncientBard said:
I think I should be able to denounce anything I want to and I will especially since I can back up what I say with fact and examples. I'm not one that's entertained by my own mouth running, I have better things to do with my time.
Fair enough.
AncientBard said:
I understand the religion and bible implicitly as it's taught in the western world and will PWN you in any apologetic discussion you try to have with me. You don't know the Bible from any other perspective then Arminianism nor do you have any working understanding of church history. It's why I dislike Evangelical churches because they teach no church history and doctrine dispensations. If you educate yourself You will clearly understand why one church is called Methodist and one Protestant, haven't you ever wondered about that? Or has the big cookie cutter in they sky taken all your imagination and wanderlust away, I hope not. I'll take my 3 years at Fuller Seminary and the knowledge I have against anything you can throw at me. Bring it on! Bring you Mom or Dad which ever is a Teacher. You'll learn something you should have been taught in the first place. Blind faith is blind my friend.
Uhhh... hah you're making quite a few assumptions here, but I won't take it personally. As you mentioned above in your post, it's really hard to make a lot of sense of what's said on the internet when only given small glimpses at another person... especially when discussing this topic!
Firstly, just because I'm currently arguing for a certain viewpoint doesn't mean that I believe it myself or that I don't
know any other outlook... so keep that in mind here.
Secondly, again, it's not that I'm uneducated in the matter, but that I'm at the moment arguing for a differing opinion from yours.
AncientBard said:
Yeah I know you already Judged me as a non Christian, nothing new here. Turn off the re-run button as not to waste anymore of your time. You have much to learn young Padwa, free your mind!
Haha... well one reason I momentarily pegged you as non-Christian is because I was sure I saw you announce yourself as an atheist somewhere on here... but I guess I'm mistaken. Haha I can hardly remember what I'm doing half the time anyway.
In that case, I apologize for falsely representing you.