Loneliness and God

[windowsill]

Sometimes in my more desperate bouts of loneliness, I ask myself, 'If there was a God, why would He let me continually suffer like this? without one friend'. To me being lonely is one of the most cruel things a human being can go through, especially on a prolonged basis. My most blasphemous moments have come at a time where I'm at the brink of tears at how lonesome my life is. In the beginning I used to pray for deliverance from loneliness, now I just ask why.

 

[Badjedidude]

It's not about God "letting" us end up like we are.

According to Christianity (if you believe in it) God gave us FREE WILL. The ability to choose the path of our own lives without his intervention.

Even if you were born into a bad situation, you have the freedom and ability to make yourself better and to claw your way to a greater life.

So do it!

MAKE YOUR LIFE WHAT YOU WANT IT TO BE.

Stop waiting for God to do something for you... because it ain't gonna happen.

*shrug*

 

[edgecrusher]

i agree with BJD. i stopped debating this with myself a long time ago. and i stopped trying to decide whether or not there even is a god in the first place. if you are unsure and dwell on these too much you will go insane. whether or not there is a god, waiting on him/her/it will accomplish nothing.

 

[Punisher]

Well said, BJD

God can guide you, and that's about it. Well, for me it's like that

 

[ALS]

Your suffering wouldn't disprove God's existence. A quick leaf through the Bible shows the dude makes some funktified decisions. Supposedly we could never understand His ways. Which is fine, but the people who say that typically also "know" who God wants you to bang and how.

 

[AncientBard]

It's not about God "letting" us end up like we are.

According to Christianity (if you believe in it) God gave us FREE WILL. The ability to choose the path of our own lives without his intervention.

Actually only the Arminist school of thought says Humans have free will, i.e. evangelical Christians, Baptist etc. Calvinists do not believe we have free will, Protestants, Lutherans etc. Take it from a church raised post high school for 7 years in church ministry human being, me..... It's all bullshit.

That book contradicts itself more then 10,000 times which is why the church argues amongst itself and has split into so many factions. Over and over again they teach it's the "perfect word of God", how many times have you heard that phrase? After thousands of dollars in Bible college tuition and serving my God in ministry in two different churches over almost 10 years no one, not even my professors could answer my questions. I was ridiculed for even asking them, made to feel less then adequate (at least they tried).

Let me ask all of you this in this thread: If you were going to try and really mind fresia someone for the use of gaining power with the limited I.Q. that a human would have lets say 1200 to 2000 years ago how would you go about accomplishing that? A big invisible eye in the sky perhaps?

I'm not saying there's no God and I am not denying the deity of Jesus Christ, I am saying the church is full of honeysuckle and you wont find anything there but people who want your money and a room Hippocrates that mostly should be under the supervision of a good psychotherapist. I believe in Deity, I believe it's out there and I believe we can communicate and ask for help and wisdom form them. I just wont put it in a box and say "this is the way it is." No one knows, that's the simple truth NO ONE KNOWS. How could they? Faith is not fact.

I can tell you the day I left all of that garbage behind me, they day I decided for myself that their God had nothing to do with real truth or enlightenment, the day I stopped walking down the street fearful of being hit by a lightening bolt and being cast into a lake of fire for all eternity because my Girlfriend and I had spent the night together making beautiful love the night before...... That day I felt like a burden weighing a ton had been lifted from my shoulders, a burden I has been carrying since I was a child.

It's all fear, fear can make the masses do almost anything in synchronicity. It takes a brave soul, I really brave soul to say "no, I'm not going to believe anything that doesn't make any sense to me any longer." I'm not going to be one of the sheep for the sake of fitting in with every one else. You're already lonely, you're already different from the masses, why else would you be here? I respectfully ask you windowsill, are you like all teh rest? Do you fit in just like a puzzle piece that fit's in perfect with everyone else?

 

[Badjedidude]

Actually only the Arminist school of thought says Humans have free will, i.e. evangelical Christians, Baptist etc. Calvinists do not believe we have free will, Protestants, Lutherans etc. Take it from a church raised post high school for 7 years in church ministry human being, me..... It's all bullshit.

Uhhh actually, most Christian denominations DO believe in free will. Take it from a pastor's child who was raised in a Christian school until 9th grade, aka ME. Back your statement up with an argument, please.

It's all fear, fear can make the masses do almost anything in synchronicity.

Again, I disagree. Not all churches and denominations are fear-based.

You seem to have experienced some bitterness along your life in churches... and that's unfortunate. But you shouldn't blanket judge every Christian faith based on your personal experience. Sure, maybe church and organized religion isn't for you. That's fine. But to say that it's completely useless and baseless for everyone else... that's quite an assumption, isn't it?

With that said, I'm not much of a church-goer myself... I'm playing devil's advocate here, but you get my point.

I just don't think you should be denouncing organized Christianity so harshly. I've met many people who enjoy their churches and who find spiritual closeness and release for themselves... and without "fear."

Just because it didn't work for you (or you don't understand it) doesn't mean that it doesn't work for anyone.

 

[rosebud]

I don't think we should point our fingers and say what is good and what is bad. All that matters is how you sleep at night, based on what you believe in.

 

[windowsill]

i pretty much wrote this fear out of frustration, it doesnt matter what you believe in really. i cant blame god for every bad thing in my life

 

[freedom]

there are a few things that i find wrong with what you're saying:

#1- it isn't up to God to make you have friends. you have to find friends for yourself. sometimes that means getting off your ass and looking for them in places that you don't frequent so much. not to be rude, but i'm telling you from experience. being lonely isn't a bad thing. not doing anything about it IS.

#2- yes, there is a God, but He's not sitting up there with His sole task being "take care of everyone's problems". yes, if you pray, He might consider it and "deliver" you from your loneliness, but it isn't likely. you have the power to get out yourself, so why should He bail you out? it's a test from Him to see what you're made of.

#3- there are much worse things than being lonely. i've been lonely my entire life, but i'm still alive and well. wether you believe in God or not, be thankful for the things that you have, namely life, good health, and the will and power to MAKE A CHANGE.

i bid you farewell.

 

[SofiasMami]

Hi-
I don't believe in religion. I believe in Humanism.
To paraphrase John Lennon, god is just a concept which we use to measure our pain.

Teresa

 

[Abbottron]

At this point I'm very much not a religious person, but also I feel I am a very spiritual person.

I try to take scientific facts and mix them with my own beliefs, which of course does not mix all of the time but I hate to think that life and the universe are as...for a lack of a better word...boring as people make them out to be.

 

[AncientBard]

Uhhh actually, most Christian denominations DO believe in free will. Take it from a pastor's child who was raised in a Christian school until 9th grade, aka ME. Back your statement up with an argument, please.

You're a PK and you've never heard of the Reformation of the Church? Martin Luther? Augustine? Arminius? or Calvinism? Your church did not teach anything about church history? Your statement is absolutely wrong none of the reformed churches believe in free will, not one. They have the Doctrines of Grace and Election however, so you don't have to spend your whole week looking up all those people try these two areas in church history: Calvinism Vs Arminianism and the Doctrines of Grace and Election. That should give you some decent information of what I'm speaking of. Who knows maybe it will spark a good interest one you can be grateful for.

It's all fear, fear can make the masses do almost anything in synchronicity.

Again, I disagree. Not all churches and denominations are fear-based.

Every Church I've ever been too with the exception of the Unitarian Universalist Church all teach the same Doctrine: if you don't believe the path to God is through Christ Jesus you will burn in all eternity in fire and brimstone in pain and suffering, because god loves you. That's utterly and completely fear based in every persons opinion that I've ever met with the possible exception of you. I guess every Asian, Jew, Hindu, Buddhist and Taoist through the middle ages is burning in all eternity by your logic. The gospel was preached in all these areas of the world by then, instead most of them went with the religion they were taught that was 8000 years older then Christianity.

You seem to have experienced some bitterness along your life in churches... and that's unfortunate. But you shouldn't blanket judge every Christian faith based on your personal experience. Sure, maybe church and organized religion isn't for you. That's fine. But to say that it's completely useless and baseless for everyone else... that's quite an assumption, isn't it?

Who just judged who? Did I ever say I was not a Christian? maybe you should remove the plank from your own eye before aiding and assisting me in the removal of mine. I think it's human nature to experience bitterness in lot's of things, think about how Raiders fans feel this week! My ex GF just kicked my arse by 4 strokes in 18 full holes of golf this weekend, talk about bitter! Her and her fancy new Lynx clubs grrrrrrrr......

With that said, I'm not much of a church-goer myself... I'm playing devil's advocate here, but you get my point.

I do, and you're being very civil and kind and I really appreciate it. You know how bad religion is to speak about in person let alone on an obscure forum on teh interwebs The sad thing is you don't get my point, you haven't even made an attempt and I believe you haven't because you're afraid. Afraid to know the truth of what it is church history really teaches us. I sincerely hope you go and educate yourself on the reformation, Martin Luther, Grace and Election.

I just don't think you should be denouncing organized Christianity so harshly. I've met many people who enjoy their churches and who find spiritual closeness and release for themselves... and without "fear."

I think I should be able to denounce anything I want to and I will especially since I can back up what I say with fact and examples. I'm not one that's entertained by my own mouth running, I have better things to do with my time. I understand the religion and bible implicitly as it's taught in the western world and will PWN you in any apologetic discussion you try to have with me. You don't know the Bible from any other perspective then Arminianism nor do you have any working understanding of church history. It's why I dislike Evangelical churches because they teach no church history and doctrine dispensations. If you educate yourself You will clearly understand why one church is called Methodist and one Protestant, haven't you ever wondered about that? Or has the big cookie cutter in they sky taken all your imagination and wanderlust away, I hope not. I'll take my 3 years at Fuller Seminary and the knowledge I have against anything you can throw at me. Bring it on! Bring you Mom or Dad which ever is a Teacher. You'll learn something you should have been taught in the first place. Blind faith is blind my friend.

Just because it didn't work for you (or you don't understand it) doesn't mean that it doesn't work for anyone.

Yeah I know you already Judged me as a non Christian, nothing new here. Turn off the re-run button as not to waste anymore of your time. You have much to learn young Padwa, free your mind!


Bad Christian :club: Bad Christian

 

[Badjedidude]

You're a PK and you've never heard of the Reformation of the Church? Martin Luther? Augustine? Arminius? or Calvinism? Your church did not teach anything about church history? Your statement is absolutely wrong none of the reformed churches believe in free will, not one. They have the Doctrines of Grace and Election however, so you don't have to spend your whole week looking up all those people try these two areas in church history: Calvinism Vs Arminianism and the Doctrines of Grace and Election. That should give you some decent information of what I'm speaking of. Who knows maybe it will spark a good interest one you can be grateful for.

Actually, yes I have heard about the Reformation, and NO, you're still wrong.

Only a few of those churches espoused the ideas of predestination and lack of free will an a spiritual scale. And most church denominations these days, while built from those early "Protestant" faiths, don't fully believe in the early doctrines set forth by the Reformation churches.

Every Church I've ever been too with the exception of the Unitarian Universalist Church all teach the same Doctrine: if you don't believe the path to God is through Christ Jesus you will burn in all eternity in fire and brimstone in pain and suffering, because god loves you.

Not everyone sees this as being "fear-based." To a lot of people, it's not the threat of hellfire that causes them to strive to serve their church, but their thankfulness that God created them and gave them life.

If you've never before encountered this outlook in a church, then I'd say you've been going to the wrong churches.

That's utterly and completely fear based in every persons opinion that I've ever met with the possible exception of you. I guess every Asian, Jew, Hindu, Buddhist and Taoist through the middle ages is burning in all eternity by your logic. The gospel was preached in all these areas of the world by then, instead most of them went with the religion they were taught that was 8000 years older then Christianity.

Ummm... "MY logic?" How is any of this my logic? I'm not the one saying everyone's doomed to hell here.

And one religion being older than another doesn't make it more relevant or true than another.

Who just judged who? Did I ever say I was not a Christian? maybe you should remove the plank from your own eye before aiding and assisting me in the removal of mine. I think it's human nature to experience bitterness in lot's of things, think about how Raiders fans feel this week! My ex GF just kicked my arse by 4 strokes in 18 full holes of golf this weekend, talk about bitter! Her and her fancy new Lynx clubs grrrrrrrr......

Haha... Raiders. Oh, yes, I understand bitterness...

I'm a KC Chiefs fan...

I do, and you're being very civil and kind and I really appreciate it. You know how bad religion is to speak about in person let alone on an obscure forum on teh interwebs. The sad thing is you don't get my point, you haven't even made an attempt and I believe you haven't because you're afraid. Afraid to know the truth of what it is church history really teaches us. I sincerely hope you go and educate yourself on the reformation, Martin Luther, Grace and Election.

... and I really do appreciate your candor and civility. You're right; oo many people get extremely nasty when discussing this subject... as if simply disagreeing about religion is a personal insult!

Hah but I'm not "afraid of the truth," simply because I disagree with your viewpoint. That's a bit asinine to say, really. I am educated on the Reformation... but I see it from a different perspective than you do. Nothing wrong with that, is there?

I think I should be able to denounce anything I want to and I will especially since I can back up what I say with fact and examples. I'm not one that's entertained by my own mouth running, I have better things to do with my time.

Fair enough.

I understand the religion and bible implicitly as it's taught in the western world and will PWN you in any apologetic discussion you try to have with me. You don't know the Bible from any other perspective then Arminianism nor do you have any working understanding of church history. It's why I dislike Evangelical churches because they teach no church history and doctrine dispensations. If you educate yourself You will clearly understand why one church is called Methodist and one Protestant, haven't you ever wondered about that? Or has the big cookie cutter in they sky taken all your imagination and wanderlust away, I hope not. I'll take my 3 years at Fuller Seminary and the knowledge I have against anything you can throw at me. Bring it on! Bring you Mom or Dad which ever is a Teacher. You'll learn something you should have been taught in the first place. Blind faith is blind my friend.

Uhhh... hah you're making quite a few assumptions here, but I won't take it personally. As you mentioned above in your post, it's really hard to make a lot of sense of what's said on the internet when only given small glimpses at another person... especially when discussing this topic!

Firstly, just because I'm currently arguing for a certain viewpoint doesn't mean that I believe it myself or that I don't know any other outlook... so keep that in mind here.

Secondly, again, it's not that I'm uneducated in the matter, but that I'm at the moment arguing for a differing opinion from yours.

Yeah I know you already Judged me as a non Christian, nothing new here. Turn off the re-run button as not to waste anymore of your time. You have much to learn young Padwa, free your mind!

Haha... well one reason I momentarily pegged you as non-Christian is because I was sure I saw you announce yourself as an atheist somewhere on here... but I guess I'm mistaken. Haha I can hardly remember what I'm doing half the time anyway.

In that case, I apologize for falsely representing you.

 

[AncientBard]

Me an atheist, naaa brudda not me.

So prove I'm wrong, prove it. Pull all that knowledge you say you have and put your money where your mouth is. Now you've really pissed me off! calling me a Raiders fan!

 

[Badjedidude]

Haha.. I never called you a Raiders fan.

And as far as this discussion.. honestly, it's hard to talk about this without ending up writing HUUUUUUGE posts answering a thousand different questions.. and I simply don't have the time it takes to do that online. It would work better to just discuss individual topics of religion (say, predestination or free will) and go from there.

Aside from that, interpretation of religious dogma and doctrine can be highly subjective anyway... so using evidence can only circumstantially support a particular viewpoint and not really prove it one way or another.

 

[AncientBard]

Ok I will let you off on the religion thing since you folded but you're still a ******* for calling me a raiders fan! He did, he edited his post, he's that kind of guy, I want everyone to know! See KC fans they're all like that! Sneaky little bastards with multi colored signatures, never trust a chiefs fan

Hey, I don't feel so lonely all of a sudden

 

[Dehydra]

windowsill,
Many times loneliness is part of having had a bad childhood, anything from emotionally cold to extremely cruel treatment; it just becomes difficult to trust.
That's been my hardest obstacle to get past, with regard to God: why He lets some of the things happen to babies and children, which do happen to them.

Some people would say it's payback for things that the person has done in a previous life.
But what they may have done in the previous lives is not necessarily things like murder, rape, etc. What they may have done is ignore God, being so caught up with the razzledazzle of the world ...fame, sex, wealth, etc.
And pain in the present life - physical or psychic pain - is the only way left for God to draw them back.

 

[The_Iblis_Trigger]

windowsill,
Many times loneliness is part of having had a bad childhood, anything from emotionally cold to extremely cruel treatment; it just becomes difficult to trust.
That's been my hardest obstacle to get past, with regard to God: why He lets some of the things happen to babies and children, which do happen to them.

Some people would say it's payback for things that the person has done in a previous life.
But what they may have done in the previous lives is not necessarily things like murder, rape, etc. What they may have done is ignore God, being so caught up with the razzledazzle of the world ...fame, sex, wealth, etc.
And pain in the present life - physical or psychic pain - is the only way left for God to draw them back.

I beg to differ on that one: You don't get someone's attention by smacking them in the back of the head with a Sledgehammer. If someone was trying to get your attention, would you want them to smack you in the face with a Sledgehammer? Or better yet, (How) Would you respond to this?

 

[Badjedidude]

And pain in the present life - physical or psychic pain - is the only way left for God to draw them back.

Everybody always blames God for pain and problems in their life.

I guess apparently a lot of Christians can't believe in random coincidence. *rolls eyes*

Just because God doesn't do anything to magically, immediately fix your problems does NOT mean that he caused them.