No relationship, drains life out of me.

[kamya]

Its all about the journey to the west =p.

 

[TheRealCallie]

So, you should not think about relationships and improve to the point others want to have a relationship with you.
In that case, why should anyone end up wanting the relationship at the end if the improvement goes well? Do you see the paradox?

I don't know. Maybe to have a successful relationship?  Maybe...possibly?

 

[M_also_lonely]

"If only i could have a relationship with a woman that I like, most of my problems would disappear."

False. Although the opposite might be true, beware.


Its not about relationships. Relationships are a part of the problem that you go through. What I mean is that you aren't feeling that way (if you really are), because you are not in a relationship. But because you have something/someone that makes you fulfilled. Now that's a different thing. I used to feel the same way some years ago you can check my threads.

And people would tell me that "don't worry, things will get better when you find the things you like" and I always thought, "ugh it will still be a compromise." "those people just pretend to be happy"
But my thoughts were wrong.
I found the things I like to do, really really like to do. And when I am doing them, I forget the outer world. And I am not lonely anymore. I have energy because the things that I like, drive me.

If I can do it, anyone can do it. Not that easy, but if it was easy, everyone would be doing it.

 

[VanillaCreme]

Why is it that you assume that lonely people haven’t already or aren’t in the process of improving themselves anyway. I am physically active and in decent shape, ideal BMI, dress fairly well and all that. I don’t earn much atm but I’m completing a Masters. It's not like I spend my life dishevelled, watching anime while living in a basement.

So you found someone, good for you, but do we really need condescending advice that reduce all our life experience down to Law of Attraction plus generic solutions.

You assume a lot. It's odd you'd fault anyone else for doing what you do.

 

[ardour]

A thousand puzzle pieces. A thousand things wrong with us that need addressing. A thousand barriers to relationships, a thousand bars set ever higher…

 

[VanillaCreme]

A thousand puzzle pieces. A thousand things wrong with us that need addressing. A thousand barriers to relationships, a thousand bars  set ever higher…

I think a lot of those bars you set to impossible for yourself. Because you believe in ridiculous notions. And magically, if someone doesn't form into those notions, they're some sort of unicorn.

 

[morrowrd]

A thousand puzzle pieces. A thousand things wrong with us that need addressing. A thousand barriers to relationships, a thousand bars  set ever higher…

I think a lot of those bars you set to impossible for yourself. Because you believe in ridiculous notions. And magically, if someone doesn't form into those notions, they're some sort of unicorn.

Like I mentioned earlier, not alot of people take advice anymore.  They stay where they are, and come up with a million excuses as to why they can't do anything about themselves, or their lives.  It's not just in this forum, it's in the real world too.  I've had this conversation with people in my life who would rather come up with reasons why they can't change, and are afraid to even try. I don't know how come that is, but it seems to be more common nowdays.  I had someone tell me, "just because it worked for you, doesn't mean it works for everyone."  And I replied, just the same as I did in here...."but your system isn't working. Why not try out someone else's system that IS working?"  And it isn't all that rocket science either, start small...areas that are easy to change, and get the ball rolling. As you gain momentum, you start working on bigger things. I began with simply telling the truth, no matter what. I never realized how untruthful of a person I was until I started changing that piece. As that became automatic, I began to stop second guessing myself. That one little thing made a big difference in my life, and that was just ONE of the changes. And as I became more confident changing things, areas like confronting, dealing with conflict-resolution, communication skills (including listening skills), these are BIG things. When I got out in the dating world, alot of these little skills (and big ones) came in handy when I took girls out. These guys whining about having horrible luck with women, they would find themselves "much more successful" gaining some of these life systems and skills.

But the moral of the story really isn't about changing things to get girls. It's about changing your quality of life, all the talk about dating and relationships is small potatoes. It's the little picture.

Anyway, I realized re-reading my post that my timeline was off somewhat.  In 1994, I started personal reform because I had a child on the way. That was one of my motivators, other than being ashamed of myself. I did not want to have a child ashamed that I was their father. So my reform deepened, it included spiritual reform as well as everything else.  And honestly, I had no idea that things would interconnect, I only began seeing that towards the end.  In the beginning, it was overwhelming, and I didn't see the big picture either.  Everything looked too complicated, I felt trapped. So in their defense, it probably is kind of the same thing.  I wish I had someone with a road map, but I didn't.  

I guess my motivation now sharing, is that I realized after all that work, it wasn't all that complicated or out of reach.  So I try to share that, and maybe give people hope.

 

[ardour]

  These guys whining about having horrible luck with women, they would find themselves "much more successful" gaining some of these life systems and skills.  Hell, I'm not even good looking or super tall, I'm joe average.  Girls are not all about looks, some are but most aren't. They like confidence, they like a man who knows what he wants and where he's going in life.  There are alot of nice looking men who have never had a girlfriend because of their lack in all these areas in life.  

Then they should be willing to apply those standards to themselves.

Again this all assumes we're lacking any ambition along with basic life skills, which is insulting, really. You haven't been here long so the basis for that judgement is just the fact that we're single. As far as "life systems" and "conflict resolution skills" go - What books did you read/people you listened to on these topics? Otherwise it's of no help at all.

 

[morrowrd]

  These guys whining about having horrible luck with women, they would find themselves "much more successful" gaining some of these life systems and skills.  Hell, I'm not even good looking or super tall, I'm joe average.  Girls are not all about looks, some are but most aren't. They like confidence, they like a man who knows what he wants and where he's going in life.  There are alot of nice looking men who have never had a girlfriend because of their lack in all these areas in life.  

Then should be willing to apply those standards to themselves.

Again this all assumes we're lacking any ambition along with basic life skills, which is insulting, really. You haven't been here long so the basis for that judgement is just fact that we're single.  As far as  "life systems" and  "conflict resolution skills" go -  What books did you read/people you listened to on these topics? Otherwise it's of no help at all.

You're putting words in my mouth, I never said you lacked ambition or "basic" life skills.  What I did say is that you are quick to make excuses and dismiss ideas from others. You pick them apart, judge and criticize these ideas, making it a topic for a condescending debate. That as opposed to taking advice and trying to change your way of doing things if you aren't being very successful. I'm not here to debate ideas of mine, that are working. This isn't an armchair theory, it's my life.  Role modeling isn't about going online and talking about ideas, or sitting around a fire chatting ideas, it's trial and error, that you can get a head start on by watching someone else.

Now however, asking questions, that is productive. And I'd be more than happy to share with you resources I used to get started. 

For starters, Suzette Hayden Elgin's book "The Gentle Art of Verbal Self-Defense" was a cornerstone to my work on communication.  Its an easy to read, VERY eye opening book that teaches you how to understand and recognize the "hidden messages" in communication. (Presuppositions)   I started a notebook using these ideas, and it helped me gain understanding about how to communicate back and respond when people are being sarcastic (something I still struggle with many times) or just unconsciously being mean. The first book is really all you need, there are many companion books, the second one, "the Gentle art of verbal self defense for business"  is quite good for focusing on the workplace. You can (I did) cover all that with the systems you can create using the first book though.

"Even you should be able to handle a situation like this."   A basic sentence using a presupposition that in a safe seeming nonthreatening way, implies something is wrong with you.

(I can come back to this.)

A formula I live by: WILL + Faith + Purpose = Power.

Power is the ability to change things because you can.  And as you become more self confident (personal faith) your purposes become larger and larger.  Your "personal will" becomes stronger, and as time progresses, so does your power.

Obviously, if you are really interested I will be happy to go further.

 

[M_also_lonely]

People often say that women care about confidence and not much about looks. But forget that looks are often play a huge role in one's confidence.

 

[TheRealCallie]

^^ Only if you allow it to.

I think for some guys, they just simply try way too ******* hard and come off appearing desperate.

 

[VanillaCreme]

  These guys whining about having horrible luck with women, they would find themselves "much more successful" gaining some of these life systems and skills.  Hell, I'm not even good looking or super tall, I'm joe average.  Girls are not all about looks, some are but most aren't. They like confidence, they like a man who knows what he wants and where he's going in life.  There are alot of nice looking men who have never had a girlfriend because of their lack in all these areas in life.  

Then they should be willing to apply those standards to themselves.

Again this all assumes we're lacking any ambition along with basic life skills, which is insulting, really. You haven't been here long so the basis for that judgement is just the fact that we're single.  As far as  "life systems" and  "conflict resolution skills" go -  What books did you read/people you listened to on these topics? Otherwise it's of no help at all.

I wasn't talking about ambitions at all. I was talking about stupid ideals that's not just placed on one or two, but basically an entire gender. You don't care to take posts on the forum into consideration, but you'll believe in books... What the fresia is the difference between the two? Both written words, both written word opinions. So what's the true difference... Right, nothing. Like I said before, I'm glad I don't have to actually deal with you in person. I don't think I'll waste any more time on the forum with it either, because you don't even want to realize that there are other sides of this. But stay where you are. It's done great for you so far.

 

[morrowrd]

  These guys whining about having horrible luck with women, they would find themselves "much more successful" gaining some of these life systems and skills.  Hell, I'm not even good looking or super tall, I'm joe average.  Girls are not all about looks, some are but most aren't. They like confidence, they like a man who knows what he wants and where he's going in life.  There are alot of nice looking men who have never had a girlfriend because of their lack in all these areas in life.  

Then they should be willing to apply those standards to themselves.

Again this all assumes we're lacking any ambition along with basic life skills, which is insulting, really. You haven't been here long so the basis for that judgement is just the fact that we're single.  As far as  "life systems" and  "conflict resolution skills" go -  What books did you read/people you listened to on these topics? Otherwise it's of no help at all.

I wasn't talking about ambitions at all. I was talking about stupid ideals that's not just placed on one or two, but basically an entire gender. You don't care to take posts on the forum into consideration, but you'll believe in books... What the fresia is the difference between the two? Both written words, both written word opinions. So what's the true difference... Right, nothing. Like I said before, I'm glad I don't have to actually deal with you in person. I don't think I'll waste any more time on the forum with it either, because you don't even want to realize that there are other sides of this. But stay where you are. It's done great for you so far.

Don't give up on him Vanilla, although I appreciate and agree with what you're saying. Pain from loneliness and frustration is something we all in here understand. Lonely people make choices other people who aren't lonely don't make. Loneliness is a powerful motivator of anger and frustration, not to mention again pain. We are all brothers and sisters in all of that..... 

This forum is a resource for give and take.   Things I am weak in, hopefully there are role models here whom I'll gain some advice and understanding from.  Then there are are areas in my life where I'm ahead of others...thus I share and maybe give a road map to someone.

 

[ardour]

I wasn't talking about ambitions at all. I was talking about stupid ideals that's not just placed on one or two, but basically an entire gender. You don't care to take posts on the forum into consideration, but you'll believe in books... What the fresia is the difference between the two? Both written words, both written word opinions. So what's the true difference... Right, nothing. Like I said before, I'm glad I don't have to actually deal with you in person. I don't think I'll waste any more time on the forum with it either, because you don't even want to realize that there are other sides of this. But stay where you are. It's done great for you so far.

Because the authors are qualified in the right area and have presumably researched the topic, which is a a bit different from personal perspectives on a forum.

morrowrd.... will have a look at that. I've read some of works of the Stoics before, since they're often recommended. (Seneca and Marcus Aurelius' Meditations. )It was helpful regulating mood, processing anger and resentment. It's not exactly a plan for making yourself more attractive to the opposite sex though, other than being a slightly better person generally.

 

[morrowrd]

Because the authors are qualified in the right area and have presumably researched the topic, which  is a a bit different from personal perspectives on a  forum.

Then you have to wonder, why are you here and not just reading books? I'm presently reading a book about domestic violence, the entire book is about someone's experience and escape from that situation.  Interestingly enough, she says that people innocently have mentioned that she must have grown up in an abusive household, which is just the opposite.  Her father was caring loving, adored his wife.  Her older brothers all grew up to become much like her father (six children in the family, 4 boys, two girls, she was the youngest). When looking for a husband, she was looking for someone with all the same qualities - she thought she had married her protection because he too, came from a good loving family, no abuse.  So where did the battering and abuse come from? Do rape victims grow up in a cycle of rape? Do people who are stalked grow up in a stalking environment? 

Things happen in life, but the point I'm getting at is this book isn't anything anyone researched. She is sharing life experiences, and at times the grammar in this book surprisingly has some mistakes. So it's not perfectly written, just like here on these forums.   The purpose of the book was to share her story, and possibly help others who have, or who are going through what she went through. Sound familiar? 

In other words, does mine, or other people's  advice or feedback have less importance or value, if it didn't come from a book? Some of my life systems and methods, came from my own initiative, my own trial and error, my own means of adapting and improvising.  And if they work, how do they have less value than someone who has researched how to do the same thing?  The person being researched had to come up with the method themselves, somewhere. Another concern is, how do we know some books we read aren't armchair theories as opposed to life learning? Honestly, I'd rather learn from a role model, than a book. A walking breathing road map - actions speak louder than words.

When you are in a place in life where things aren't the way you'd like, if you deal with frustration and failure, the answer is usually to look around at someone else who's life has some success.  All the focus on dating and relationships with an emphasis on looks, is a waste of time.  Everyone has been given a hand in life, and you deal with the cards you were dealt.  And in these forums, we are, I'm assuming, people who are unhappy with the hand they were dealt and we talk about it here.  We're all different, with different backgrounds and life experiences, so its ridiculous to be critical or argumentative with someone else, you for instance, if they are sharing with you something that works, because you've shared about something that doesn't work. Who cares about the means to an end, if you can't argue with the results?  I wouldn't care if the devil himself helped me get out of my black pit, just as long as I'm out.  The person who throws you a lifeline, is not your enemy, and to me it appears that you, and others, come across that way at times.

 

[michael2]

According to Abraham Laslow's hierarchy of human needs, intimacy/love is more important to a person then confidence, reaching your potential, etc

 

[Xpendable]

"Because the authors are qualified in the right area and have presumably researched the topic, which is a bit different from personal perspectives on a forum."

This should be my signature.

 

[Paraiyar]

A qualified researcher can be wrong. I don't think there is anything wrong with people giving personal perspectives as long as we recognize them for being just that.

 

[TheRealCallie]

Doesn't really matter if the person giving advice is a qualified researcher or a plain jane giving personal experience. Each person is different and each person will have different results in anything they are trying. It is your job, as an individual, to just basically trial and error until you find something that works. Who the fresia cares where it comes from, just ******* try something different.

 

[Xpendable]

Doesn't really matter if the person giving advice is a qualified researcher or a plain jane giving personal experience.  Each person is different and each person will have different results in anything they are trying.  It is your job, as an individual, to just basically trial and error until you find something that works.  Who the fresia cares where it comes from, just ******* try something different.

The difference is in what way they treat the results and with what tools. I care from where something comes from when one is backed by centuries of trial and error, as you say, with ever-evolving methods and knowledge and the other is just a gut feeling. There's a big difference between astronomy and astrology for the same reason. A researcher may be wrong, but it will be wrong for some time until he's corrected, other people can be wrong and never change their minds about it.