Recent convo on "friend-zoning"

[Dissident]

Having depression probably factors into a lot of it. Failing at something signals to me that I am doing something wrong. Failing repeatedly no matter how I approach a situation? It goes from doing something wrong to being something wrong.

 

[ardour]

Having depression probably factors into a lot of it. Failing at something signals to me that I am doing something wrong. Failing repeatedly no matter how I approach a situation? It goes from doing something wrong to being something wrong.

Given the fact that women are different individuals there can't be a 'correct' approach though right? Maybe you've just been unlucky. You gave the impression of being much older, possibly divorced, as if you had seen it all. But no, 26 with experience and still plenty of time. There's no need for that degree of negativity imo.

 

[Dissident]

The odds of finding someone who fits my criteria (i.e. no children) seems to decrease exponentially each passing year.

 

[ardour]

You are a constant in any relationship. From one new relationship to another, you will always be there. Possessing that kind of information isn't going to make you a better constant. Trying to mold yourself to one woman's taste doesn't have anything to do with the next person you meet. It only changes yourself, while chasing after an ideal. An ideal which only one person wanted in her own relationship. An ideal which the next person won't appreciate the very same way. If you have a long history of failed relationships, why not take a moment to look at yourself and how you socialize with other people? You can work through it with a therapist.

that deserves the credit of repetition.

 

[quintus]

"...to mold yourself to one woman's taste..." is a very disturbing idea. What a weird aproach to a relationship. That simply can't work because you would be a fake YOU. And of course I agree with Rdor about the age factor. But I've the strange feeling that there should be a lot more self-acceptance, before a relationship may work. "Being something wrong"? Ok, I understand the level of frustration. But to see yourself as "being something wrong" excludes any progress. You've been writing about tactics and personality shifts. Well, if a friendship, or relationship doesn't come naturally, it won't come at all. You can use tactics for a one-night-stand, not for something lasting. I guess you have to be patient. Most of us have to . Yes, move to Norway! A drastic change of your outer circumstances may actually help to advance with your inner problems. According to my experiences, at least.

 

[perfanoff]

The odds of finding someone who fits my criteria (i.e. no children) seems to decrease exponentially each passing year.

That's a good thing right? I mean the exponential decay thing.
It'd be definitely better than a line fit and it also guarantees that there will always be someone who has no children

 

[kamya]

I don't believe any of us are really in a position to offer sound advice. You just can't plan for how other people will handle criticism or rejection. The bottom line is that nobody is obligated to tell people why they're uninterested; ajdass1 nailed it. Just please always remember that each of us have our own preferences and desires in a relationship. Just because your friend is uninterested, doesn't mean this man has to change himself at all. Sometimes giving people an explanation of why we're uninterested accomplishes nothing. Sometimes the only mature thing to do is set boundaries, and move on. We simply do not know whether or not this guy wants constructive criticism. He's responsible for expressing himself if he wants to talk about it. That's the reason why we're not in a good position to offer advice. We cannot even begin to guess what goes on inside his head.


If there is any dialog just be polite, tactful, and don't drag his personal quirks, (or whatever) through the mud.

I second this.

Why isn't enough for your friend to say, "you're just not the one." and leave it at that? why does she have to explain herself?

Sure, it can be frustrating for the person being rejected, but she isn't responsible for his feelings. I'm sure he's a big boy by now, he can deal with that.

Except you kind of are a little responsible for the feelings of your friends. It's part of being friends. If it was just a random person then yeah.

 

[defenestrate]

No. You can never be responsible for the emotions of other people.

The only thing you can be responsible for is your own behaviors. You can choose for yourself to be a good friend. You can choose for yourself to be supportive and available for the people you care about. You cannot choose for other people what emotions they'll experience. Even with all of the kindness in the world, you still can't control/guarantee what other people will think or feel. The most you can do for a friend is ask them if they want to talk about things. As much as we might want to help out the people we care about, we cannot force their feelings.

I hope that's what you meant by being responsible. Just treating a friend exactly how you should treat them - with kindness and consideration. It's the most you can do for them. Nothing more.

 

[duff]

usually people don't want to hear their faults. And they won't agree anyway.

 

[Dissident]

"...to mold yourself to one woman's taste..." is a very disturbing idea. What a weird aproach to a relationship. That simply can't work because you would be a fake YOU. And of course I agree with Rdor about the age factor. But I've the strange feeling that there should be a lot more self-acceptance, before a relationship may work. "Being something wrong"? Ok, I understand the level of frustration. But to see yourself as "being something wrong" excludes any progress. You've been writing about tactics and personality shifts. Well, if a friendship, or relationship doesn't come naturally, it won't come at all. You can use tactics for a one-night-stand, not for something lasting. I guess you have to be patient. Most of us have to . Yes, move to Norway! A drastic change of your outer circumstances may actually help to advance with your inner problems. According to my experiences, at least.

If I weren't picky the age factor wouldn't come into it. However given that one of my criteria directly depends on it statistically, the time I have left to find a match is very, very limited. I realize that I am fairly young but I also already feel like I am past my prime and that the world has moved on without me.

And I've tried forming relationships "naturally." It never works. In fact, nothing has ever worked. I have tried to initiate a relationship myself dozens of times. It has never worked. All I can draw from that is that there is something inherently wrong with me at the core that makes me unsuitable. I have attempted different ways of going about it because being straight-forward simply does not work, and I needed to experiment to see what works and what doesn't.

The odds of finding someone who fits my criteria (i.e. no children) seems to decrease exponentially each passing year.

That's a good thing right? I mean the exponential decay thing.
It'd be definitely better than a line fit and it also guarantees that there will always be someone who has no children

What? No. How is a declining number of fish in the sea is ever good?

No. You can never been responsible for the emotions of other people.

Psychopaths who manipulate others would agree with this.

 

[perfanoff]

Clearly you haven't paid attention in spin!

CNN every year since 2009: "The rate of increase of unemployment is decreasing! Good times are ahead!" Booyah!

 

[defenestrate]

No. You can never been responsible for the emotions of other people.

Psychopaths who manipulate others would agree with this.

I cannot vouch for anyone else. I'm merely speaking from my own life choices and experiences, which are going to be different than yours.

The first thing I've learned through codependency is how unrealistic it is to make other people love you. We can only make our own decisions. We cannot create personal decisions for other people. We also cannot anticipate what goes on inside another person's mind. If our decisions hurt someone in the process, we can address our own actions, if we're so inclined, and create better decisions in the future. All of the appeasements, generosities, and curiosities in the world still cannot control how other people feel and whether or not they feel approval of your choices.

What do you know of psychopaths?
They choose to surround themselves with people who value their very lives based around the approval of others. Manipulation is not about controlling people's emotions. It's about leaving people vulnerable, encouraging unrealistic rationales, and otherwise coerce people to get what they want. All through the use of persuasion, coaxing, trickery, and misdirection. If I swindle an elderly man out of his retirement savings, the elderly man has made his own poor decisions. But I am equally culpable for my own actions which only I am responsible for. That's why if we ever hurt someone, we're presented with a choice; changing our own behaviors or change nothing. We're not obligated to change ourselves based around the whims of other people, or the perceived effects it might not even have on their emotions. Making a personal change does nothing to guarantee it's a change within our own best interests, or whether or not it'll change the situation. Abused children, for instance, try to force their parents into loving them by appeasing them. People in abusive relationships also have that same codependency. It doesn't work because you cannot control the emotions of others. Sometimes people use these behaviors as their own model of the world. This model of the world does not function.

We're all individuals with individual responsibility for our own decisions. It should not be a new concept to anyone.

 

[jeffcallahan]

There can be no learning without feedback, this poor guy NEEDS to know WHY he's being friend-zoned.