Seriously..Stop Saying this!

[passage]

I find it quite stupid that some men who aren't physically attractive, expect or desire physically attractive women to fall for them, especially when these men also lack in the personality department. And then they become bitter about it, don't do anything to change themselves for the better, and believe the world is a messed up place because everyone does not think like them.

Also one thing I've noticed on this forum, unfortunately, is that a lot of you are more judgmental and just as hypocritical as the people you say you despise (really, if you look at a lot of the posts on here you will see that). For example, so what if someone gets drunk, dances, or has sex on the weekend. Do you really think sitting in front of the computer playing some mind numbing video game is any better? Maybe for some people it is more fun, but for me it certainly isn't.

And please don't reply to this accusing me of generalizing everyone on this forum, as I'm not.

 

[Sci-Fi]

Passage, I agree with everything you said, 100%.

There are women in their 50's who are still stunning, like Michelle Pfeiffer for example. So this bull about "women are only hot in there 20's" is such crap.

After reading all the posts in this thread and some who claim to be "nice guys" go back and read what you've written. Nice guys don't say things like some of the comments that have been made here. You might not get drunk and hook up with random women but some of the remarks made here don't make you any better than the ones that do. You are doing the exact same thing the ****** bag guys do that use women, just in a different capacity. In the end you are both running them down and treating them like lesser human beings.

 

[floffyschneeman]

I was quite frustrated when I wrote this. The first situation with the girl at work, I guess it wasn't too bad, I just take it in an insulting way when they talk about other guys in front of your face, especially to someone you've barely met.

I don't think that was an insult, though weird, it could also mean that she feels comfortable talking to you, meaning she treats you as a friend or someone she thinks she can be friends with. Some people are like that. They can open up to most people. But then it'd be up to you. If you want to get to know her as a friend or you think she's not worth your time.

The other girl, well, if someone has the intelligence level to ask a question like "Why am I attracted to bad guys? I know they're not good for me, but I will always like them for some reason anyway" then I sure as hell have no reason to associate myself with them. There are some other reasons why I chose to ignore her which I find justified.

It's just so hard to go out there in the world, meet new people, be yourself, and just continually get ignored. People do become interested in me, say, after a few months of working with them, but that's a few months! How I am supposed to meet friends and women and keep their interest? Its a huge competition and I come last everytime I'm with a bunch of other guys. Their eyes are immediately drawn to the tall, handsome men while I'll get the left over details of what happened with their man and someone to talk to when their relationship goes astray. I'm sorry, I dont want to be this person. I don't want to be friend zoned. I dont want to be a woman's puppy.

you know if you read what you have said above, if you think about it, you might be doing the same thing you claim people do to you (which is ignore you after some time) to the people you meet that you find are not worth your time after saying things which you think are shallow.

Im not going to change my personallity, or the way I come across to people. Im perfectly happpy with it. If it means I come last in the race to a woman, so be it. Does anybody else thinks that flirting is just so corny and cheesy? Ive tried it before, it dosent feel right. I mean, it makes me say stuff i wouldnt normally say. Why can't I just use words like "beautiful" "exquisite" instead of these silly, subtle, sexy innuendos that men and women use between each other. Im a pretty straight foward person and usually tell it like it is when asked. So flirting is something that I hardly doubt I will ever be good at.

If you are truly happy with how you are and how you deal with people that you never think about that there are probably things about you you need to develop or over come, then why care what other people do? Also, I find flirting funny as well, and some people are really good at it, as it seems. But it never came across my mind that flirting has always been a start of a lasting relationship. There is getting a date, someone to have sex with for a night. there is also getting a partner you share the same interest with and have a good chemistry with. These are two very different things. The first one usually starts with flirting. The second one usually starts with friendship, which many people who are too focused on finding a partner usually and unknowingly ignores.

---

I find it quite stupid that some men who aren't physically attractive, expect or desire physically attractive women to fall for them, especially when these men also lack in the personality department. And then they become bitter about it, don't do anything to change themselves for the better, and believe the world is a messed up place because everyone does not think like them.

Also one thing I've noticed on this forum, unfortunately, is that a lot of you are more judgmental and just as hypocritical as the people you say you despise (really, if you look at a lot of the posts on here you will see that). For example, so what if someone gets drunk, dances, or has sex on the weekend. Do you really think sitting in front of the computer playing some mind numbing video game is any better? Maybe for some people it is more fun, but for me it certainly isn't.

And please don't reply to this accusing me of generalizing everyone on this forum, as I'm not.

I agree

 

[2fresh4youx]

I find it quite stupid that some men who aren't physically attractive, expect or desire physically attractive women to fall for them, especially when these men also lack in the personality department. And then they become bitter about it, don't do anything to change themselves for the better, and believe the world is a messed up place because everyone does not think like them.

Also one thing I've noticed on this forum, unfortunately, is that a lot of you are more judgmental and just as hypocritical as the people you say you despise (really, if you look at a lot of the posts on here you will see that). For example, so what if someone gets drunk, dances, or has sex on the weekend. Do you really think sitting in front of the computer playing some mind numbing video game is any better? Maybe for some people it is more fun, but for me it certainly isn't.

And please don't reply to this accusing me of generalizing everyone on this forum, as I'm not.

I think alot of people simply despise the fact that there are not that many that are like them in this world. Sure, if you're into the whole going out and pointlessly getting drunk, waking up in bed with people you can't even remember meeting the night before, then you just do what you have to do. I have partied with people, danced, etc and while it may sound fun, it's not what it's worked up to be.

I certainly do think my looks and height have played a major part in the way people perceive me, especially women, as I am written off straight away because of that, so it's harder for me (and sometimes hard to not feel bitter about it!). Some people glide through life and get everything handed to them on a plate, and over half the time, it's due to looks!

And yes, I do have my preferences when it comes to women, sure. Both genders do. But I have a much harder time dealing with the fact that my non-bad boy personality is so repulsive for women. Being friend zoned for life is not something that I would ever enjoy.

So yeah, I think my biggest gripe is just the way my generation acts these days. I feel as if I was meant to be born 20 years earlier or something and that people these days, especially younger people are more materialistic, shallow and cold-hearted.

 

[floffyschneeman]

After reading all the posts in this thread and some who claim to be "nice guys" go back and read what you've written. Nice guys don't say things like some of the comments that have been made here. You might not get drunk and hook up with random women but some of the remarks made here don't make you any better than the ones that do. You are doing the exact same thing the ****** bag guys do that use women, just in a different capacity. In the end you are both running them down and treating them like lesser human beings.

Well said, Sci. Thank you!

 

[2fresh4youx]

I was quite frustrated when I wrote this. The first situation with the girl at work, I guess it wasn't too bad, I just take it in an insulting way when they talk about other guys in front of your face, especially to someone you've barely met.

I don't think that was an insult, though weird, it could also mean that she feels comfortable talking to you, meaning she treats you as a friend or someone she thinks she can be friends with. Some people are like that. They can open up to most people. But then it'd be up to you. If you want to get to know her as a friend or you think she's not worth your time.

About that girl opening up to me. Someone I spoke to the other day practically spoke of the same things to him as she did to me, so her preferences and sex life must be something that she can speak so easily about to other people. How some people can easily share these details of such things is quite bizzare. And this seems to be 99% of young people I know.

The other girl, well, if someone has the intelligence level to ask a question like "Why am I attracted to bad guys? I know they're not good for me, but I will always like them for some reason anyway" then I sure as hell have no reason to associate myself with them. There are some other reasons why I chose to ignore her which I find justified.

It's just so hard to go out there in the world, meet new people, be yourself, and just continually get ignored. People do become interested in me, say, after a few months of working with them, but that's a few months! How I am supposed to meet friends and women and keep their interest? Its a huge competition and I come last everytime I'm with a bunch of other guys. Their eyes are immediately drawn to the tall, handsome men while I'll get the left over details of what happened with their man and someone to talk to when their relationship goes astray. I'm sorry, I dont want to be this person. I don't want to be friend zoned. I dont want to be a woman's puppy.

you know if you read what you have said above, if you think about it, you might be doing the same thing you claim people do to you (which is ignore you after some time) to the people you meet that you find are not worth your time after saying things which you think are shallow. [/quote]

Hmm, no, people usually ignore from the get go, not after a certain period of time. After time, they get to know me, and if we talk in a relationship sense, it's too late for anything to happen since I've probably been written off upon meeting, simply because I dont come across as amazingly funny, witty or in possession of a bad-boy personality.

Im not going to change my personallity, or the way I come across to people. Im perfectly happpy with it. If it means I come last in the race to a woman, so be it. Does anybody else thinks that flirting is just so corny and cheesy? Ive tried it before, it dosent feel right. I mean, it makes me say stuff i wouldnt normally say. Why can't I just use words like "beautiful" "exquisite" instead of these silly, subtle, sexy innuendos that men and women use between each other. Im a pretty straight foward person and usually tell it like it is when asked. So flirting is something that I hardly doubt I will ever be good at.

If you are truly happy with how you are and how you deal with people that you never think about that there are probably things about you you need to develop or over come, then why care what other people do? Also, I find flirting funny as well, and some people are really good at it, as it seems. But it never came across my mind that flirting has always been a start of a lasting relationship. There is getting a date, someone to have sex with for a night. there is also getting a partner you share the same interest with and have a good chemistry with. These are two very different things. The first one usually starts with flirting. The second one usually starts with friendship, which many people who are too focused on finding a partner usually and unknowingly ignores.

[/quote]

Because I'm looking at society as a whole. I'm just looking at what the world is turning into. Good values and beliefs aren't viewed that highly upon anymore, especially at people my age. If people, like that girl I mentioned before talking about that guy she was interested in, have to talk about their personal lives to me all the time and men have to objectify women and brag about it to me as well, then I'm only compelled to have a strong opinion about it.

 

[The Good Citizen]

Passage, I agree with everything you said, 100%.

There are women in their 50's who are still stunning, like Michelle Pfeiffer for example. So this bull about "women are only hot in there 20's" is such crap.

After reading all the posts in this thread and some who claim to be "nice guys" go back and read what you've written. Nice guys don't say things like some of the comments that have been made here. You might not get drunk and hook up with random women but some of the remarks made here don't make you any better than the ones that do. You are doing the exact same thing the ****** bag guys do that use women, just in a different capacity. In the end you are both running them down and treating them like lesser human beings.

I agree with most of that but if two people get drunk and end up in bed together I don't see it as men using women any more than women using men. If its 2 adults agreeing to have a one night stand thats their business. Women are just as capable of being responsible for their actions as men. This is 2012 you know, sisters are doin' it for themselves and all that...

If someone goes out gets drunk and has a one night stand with someone else it doesn't mean they are subhuman male or female, well not in my book. Its not really my thing but each to their own.

 

[LeaningIntoTheMuse]

Ugh, nevermind, I drop the discussion.

Anyway, the person who said that I need to look inside the person isn't ugly. I don't know any ugly women here.

 

[floffyschneeman]

@OP

You're probably just hanging with the wrong kind of people... I don't know. I don't think EVERYONE is shallow and cold hearted. People always surprise me, either in a good way or bad. That is why, as much as possible, I try not to judge people without getting to know them first. Sometimes there would be people I know I wouldn't be comfortable with, but I also know I don't have to right to qualify them as mean, heartless, shallow or whatever, their personalities may not just jive with mine.

As we go through life, sometimes we put up faces as a coping mechanism for this world, sometimes we do and say silly, stupid things, sometimes we hurt people, sometimes we try to fit in the ''cool'' crowd, sometimes we're materialistic, sometimes we're superficial, but that doesn't mean we'll always be like that. Living life is a process of getting to know yourself as you go through experiences, a process of trial and errors. Even my 13 year old version of me is very different from my 20 year old version. But there would be things that will remain in me that is unique to me and the few people who know that are the few people I consider as friends cos they stick with me no matter what I may have said or did in the past.

I know this might be sooooooo far out from the topic of this thread but my point is... everyone is going through the process of what we call living so I don't think we can judge people base on how we perceive them as cos our perception is biased with our own ignorance and lack of know how about them.

Personally, that openness and faith towards humanity, towards people's capacity to be good and be interesting is the real indication of being a ''nice guy''

 

[Minus]

... If we can't find a partner it might just be because of our crappy social skills...

Huh, my crappy social skills or the whole opposite gender is flawed. I wonder which is more likely.

 

[2fresh4youx]

@OP

You're probably just hanging with the wrong kind of people... I don't know. I don't think EVERYONE is shallow and cold hearted. People always surprise me, either in a good way or bad. That is why, as much as possible, I try not to judge people without getting to know them first. Sometimes there would be people I know I wouldn't be comfortable with, but I also know I don't have to right to qualify them as mean, heartless, shallow or whatever, their personalities may not just jive with mine.

As we go through life, sometimes we put up faces as a coping mechanism for this world, sometimes we do and say silly, stupid things, sometimes we hurt people, sometimes we try to fit in the ''cool'' crowd, sometimes we're materialistic, sometimes we're superficial, but that doesn't mean we'll always be like that. Living life is a process of getting to know yourself as you go through experiences, a process of trial and errors. Even my 13 year old version of me is very different from my 20 year old version. But there would be things that will remain in me that is unique to me and the few people who know that are the few people I consider as friends cos they stick with me no matter what I may have said or did in the past.

I know this might be sooooooo far out from the topic of this thread but my point is... everyone is going through the process of what we call living so I don't think we can judge people base on how we perceive them as cos our perception is biased with our own ignorance and lack of know how about them.

Personally, that openness and faith towards humanity, towards people's capacity to be good and be interesting is the real indication of being a ''nice guy''

I dont actually consider myself to be a "Nice Guy", I guess subconciously, the way I come across to people is quite pleasant (always smiling, being friendly etc). Im not a pushover by anymeans, but it seems that being nice is actually a sign of weakness.

After reading over several internet forums that have to do with love & dating, it seems that I have to change the way I come across to women, but in the attempt to do so, I've realised that I'm constanly over analysing everything I do when it comes to meeting women and it feels like I have become this other person entirely, because of it. So if acting like myself dosen't work, acting like someone else dosen't work, what does? Am I doomed to be looked upon as a friend forever when I act in my own skin?

And yeah, I have always felt like I have ALWAYS hung around with the wrong people. Where are the right people though? Where!!!! If only we had signs above our heads.

 

[LeaningIntoTheMuse]

How in the world is being open to everyone, irregardless of their looks, equal to wanting to date everyone despite their looks?

I don't judge people on looks, other than putting them in a "I would date them/I wouldn't date them" category. I don't think that's shallow. I wouldn't date an 80 year old, even if we got along well...why? Because we are not at the same place, and while she might be attracted to me, I wouldn't be attracted to her.

I am not 50 years old and chasing after 18 year olds. I am in my late 20's, and stating that I'd like to date someone ATTRACTIVE in their 20's. That doesn't make me a terrible person. I just have standards.

I understand that I upset some people with the comments I made about attractiveness, but that's how I view it. Although, when I was 14, I thought women in their 30's were hot. I expect my views to change as I get into that age bracket...but I don't want to date an older woman.

 

[floffyschneeman]

I dont actually consider myself to be a "Nice Guy", I guess subconciously, the way I come across to people is quite pleasant (always smiling, being friendly etc). Im not a pushover by anymeans, but it seems that being nice is actually a sign of weakness.

After reading over several internet forums that have to do with love & dating, it seems that I have to change the way I come across to women, but in the attempt to do so, I've realised that I'm constanly over analysing everything I do when it comes to meeting women and it feels like I have become this other person entirely, because of it. So if acting like myself dosen't work, acting like someone else dosen't work, what does? Am I doomed to be looked upon as a friend forever when I act in my own skin?

And yeah, I have always felt like I have ALWAYS hung around with the wrong people. Where are the right people though? Where!!!! If only we had signs above our heads.

If people say you are a nice guy, you probably are. Consider it as a complement, because it is. I don't know if sites about love and dating can actually get you a nice partner you would enjoy to be with in a healthy relationship. Although they sometimes work.

I've always believed in friendship as a good starting point of any relationship. It lets you get to know a person in a deeper level before realizing that you are actually falling for them and not merely infatuation. It's different than having a crush on someone you don't know or wanting to date that girl cos she is attractive.

But even in friendship, there are different kinds or ways to go about it with a certain person you find attractive as suitable gf (I dont mean attractive physically, I meant chemistry) We act differently towards people we like as a friend and also a crush. There are a lot of subtle ways you can tell a friend that you like her. e.g. giving her random and out of the blue complements on how pretty she looks, or traits that you like about her. Doing something a bit out of your way for her and just by being there for when she needs someone or just a friend. But in order to be able to do all these, you must also know if you truly like that certain person you want to do these things to. In order for you to know that, you have to get to know her as a person, which you can learn through friendship. Cos sometimes love or liking develops. It's not an instant feeling you get the moment you talk or see that person.I think that's the problem of most single people looking for a partner. they are too busy looking for a partner without even bothering to get to know people they meet. Anyway, I hope things will work out for you. Good luck

 

[Felix]

... If we can't find a partner it might just be because of our crappy social skills...

Huh, my crappy social skills or the whole opposite gender is flawed. I wonder which is more likely.

I didn't say it was flawed. I just think certain things don't work for the 'modern woman' as well as they did some decades ago. It's very clear that I defended women's right to choose their partner, as well as men's.

And I agree to what your sarcasm implies, lack of social skills is usually the root of this kind of threads....

 

[Minus]

I did not intend to imply that flawed was a term that you used. I thought it was clear that it was a word that originated in my sentence.

I am not so sure about the 'modern woman' being so different though.

 

[ardour]

Attractiveness is not just looks based though. I think some people fall into that trap and dismiss someone who does not immediately bowl them over before they've even spoke to them as being “unattractive”.

Looks are an attribute, but so is having similar life views, things in common, a similar temperament or personality. Just about anything positive about someone you could find to be attractive. Have you never chatted to a girl who didn't immediately jump out at you the first time you saw her and then got to know her a bit and thought actually she is really nice? The next time you see her she will be more attractive, same face, same body but a different girl.

Of course looks are an advantage and being tall dark and handsome will help but if you are dull, arrogant or some other negative quality then you become less attractive, for anything meaningful anyway. You would probably rely on jumping between constant fleeting encounters with people before they got to know the real you and realised you weren't all they initially thought. That’s where looks can be a burden as it’s the first thing we are judged on.

I’m not immune to a pretty smile and nice eyes but being attractive is not the same as being good looking. I think people fail to recognise the difference and get so caught up in their self perception of their own looks it encourages bitterness, self loathing and shyness and other negative qualities to creep in which are probably the real reason that they can't meet someone. It’s never all about looks.

Sure an appealing personality is likely to increase physical appeal, but might you just be emphasising that because you think you ought to? Ranking women in order of appeal by their appearance is obnoxious, but how many mature guys (over 25) would put that as top priority? Personally I find the majority of women around my age more or less attractive in some way. That shallowness is also cultural conditioning effecting young men, their interest being limited to that societal beauty standard, which we sort of find less interesting later on. In other words looks need not be the dominant factor, you'd hope they wouldn't be, but they matter to some degree, and it would be hard to imagine a relationship developing where there was absolutely zero initial attraction. You simply can't pretend that healthy relationships develop purely from a platonic appreciation, that's going too far in the other direction.

 

[VanillaCreme]

I don't party. I'll never be into going to bars and whatnot to drink. Just not into the whole scene. Just have to find the right people, I suppose.