Victims vs victim mentality

[stork_error]

Victims vs victim mentality

Unless you really know what someone has experienced, how can anyone determine what they need. Its so easy for others to label anyone who is behaving helplessly as having victim mentality, but sometimes people really are the victims and have every good reason to feel helpless

And sometimes, people really are trapped, by finances or health problems etc..

No wife deserves to be beaten because the husband suffers from paranoia, no man deserves to be beaten up on the street for being gay, no person deserves to be bullied at work because they are good at their job, no child needs to be picked on because they are socially challenged.

Some people might need a kick in the ass but some people need a big fat hug. Some people need many many hugs. I don't prepose to know what anyone needs and at the risk of misjudging someone and kicking someone who actually needs a hug, I think for me, its best not to kick anyone period, unless I KNOW as a fact that they need a kick and that they can handle a kick, and I'm not qualified to have that answer, I'm not a DR.

I dont want to be the person who tips someone over the edge and causes them to kill themselves. Sometimes a simple lack of empathy is all a suicidal person needs to take their own life.

I would never want to be the cause of that because i kicked them.

Loneliness is a risk factor for suicide, I don't think that should be taken lightly.

There are many different types of lonely people. There are people who suffer physical disabilities, there are people who suffer from social disabilities like Aspergers or extreme shyness or insecurity, there are people who are lonely because they are nassholes or their are people who have been abused, bullied or beaten up by life and are left cynical. These people are as different as the snowflakes that fall from the sky and what they need is vastly different from one another.

I think kicking someone who cant handle it is extremely dangerous as it can easily trigger suicide in someone who is in contemplation.

I don't think anyone can judge what a person needs unless they are a family member, very close friend or a dr who has been by their side over a long period of time.

I suppose its easier to kick people in the ass maybe if you have never been the person who really needs the hug, and i suppose its impossible to understand being trapped by circumstance unless you have been trapped by circumstance.

 

[ladyforsaken]

I do agree with what you said mostly.

I dont want to be the person who tips someone over the edge and causes them to kill themselves. Sometimes a simple lack of empathy is all a suicidal person needs to take their own life.

I know that different people react differently to things, and each might react differently in different situations. So I usually go with empathy first and then work from there. Sometimes when you go headstrong with a kick immediately, it only aggravates the situation, I think. Sometimes it works though, sometimes it's what someone might just need.

 

[SofiasMami]

Some people might need a kick in the ass but some people need a big fat hug. Some people need many many hugs. I don't prepose to know what anyone needs and at the risk of misjudging someone and kicking someone who actually needs a hug, I think for me, its best not to kick anyone period, unless I KNOW as a fact that they need a kick and that they can handle a kick, and I'm not qualified to have that answer, I'm not a DR.

I dont want to be the person who tips someone over the edge and causes them to kill themselves. Sometimes a simple lack of empathy is all a suicidal person needs to take their own life.

I would never want to be the cause of that because i kicked them.

Loneliness is a risk factor for suicide, I don't think that should be taken lightly.

There are many different types of lonely people. There are people who suffer physical disabilities, there are people who suffer from social disabilities like Aspergers or extreme shyness or insecurity, there are people who are lonely because they are nassholes or their are people who have been abused, bullied or beaten up by life and are left cynical. These people are as different as the snowflakes that fall from the sky and what they need is vastly different from one another.

I think kicking someone who cant handle it is extremely dangerous as it can easily trigger suicide in someone who is in contemplation.

I don't think anyone can judge what a person needs unless they are a family member, very close friend or a dr who has been by their side over a long period of time.

I suppose its easier to kick people in the ass maybe if you have never been the person who really needs the hug, and i suppose its impossible to understand being trapped by circumstance unless you have been trapped by circumstance.

I have no idea what your point of reference is here but I'm interpreting it to mean various posts and comments here on the forum. I've mentioned in other threads that this is a forum for Lonely people and many of us (including me) have issues which led us here.

Although there are some posts that I've personally felt were very negative or maybe even attention-seeking, I've felt the best way to handle it is to simply ignore the comments I personally don't like. I'm sad to instead see some goading of members who clearly have problems that won't be solved here but could be made worse by the kicks and insensitivity.

I hope that's a trend that won't continue.

-Teresa

 

[constant stranger]

I'm afraid that I am sorely tempted to goad and basically attack one specific member of this forum. For the most part I've resisted the temptation, but my hostility to the little twerp probably shows through anyway.

I shall consider myself to be scolded and chastised by this thread and not make things worse for him.

 

[reynard_muldrake]

Although there are some posts that I've personally felt were very negative or maybe even attention-seeking, I've felt the best way to handle it is to simply ignore the comments I personally don't like. I'm sad to instead see some goading of members who clearly have problems that won't be solved here but could be made worse by the kicks and insensitivity.

I agree. Some people claim to have a "take it or leave it" attitude when it comes to the forum, but it's instantly contradicted when you see those members go out of their way to attack others. And for what? Because they complain too much? If you know what to expect from that person, then why bother provoking them further? That behavior is too much like bullying in my eyes.

Sometimes it works though, sometimes it's what someone might just need

"Sometimes" being the key word. Providing a strong kick is best when the softer approach hasn't been met with any success. When you (generally speaking here) launch into attack mode off the bat, you can't be surprised if the other person enters defense mode.

 

[ladyforsaken]

Sometimes it works though, sometimes it's what someone might just need

"Sometimes" being the key word. Providing a strong kick is best when the softer approach hasn't been met with any success. When you (generally speaking here) launch into attack mode off the bat, you can't be surprised if the other person enters defense mode.

I can't believe I had a typo there. I meant to say "Sometimes it won't work, sometimes it's what someone might just need."

 

[vixie]

Disclaimer: this post addresses this subject in general and not necessarily this forum. I see this everywhere.

I agree so much. I myself have been several times in a place where people kicking me when I was down in a supposedly helpful way made me wanted to give up/kill myself only more. Kindness and support got me to recovery, not being told that everything wrong with my life is my own fault because I didn't do something to prevent it or anything along the lines of that worldview.

I'll continue on with my personal experience to say that kindness didn't work on me immediately. But isn't it absurd to expect that someone who has been through honeysuckle for years or even their whole life to heal overnight from some kind words? What's far more absurd to me is expecting that sucker punching them is going to achieve that.

After years of kindness and support from a few (and especially one in particular) lovely people, then I got to a place that I could begin to heal. My self esteem rose enough to believe that it was possible and that I might actually be worth it rather than the useless pile of garbage that I thought I was.

The people who acted like jerks to me and put me down when I was already feeling like the lowest honeysuckle on the planet I have NOTHING to thank for, and I'm sure neither do most people going through anything resembling what I did. They prolonged my suffering and that's all.

It has always been my stance to take anything that has even a remote possibility of affecting whether someone will choose to live seriously. If it seems that they're seeking attention or whining about the same thing over and over again? I'll support them anyway, and **** ******* well I'll spend my time in doing that because it costs the same amount of effort to show kindness and empathy to someone as it does to possibly push them over the edge.

Sorry for the intensity of my post but my blood boils that vulnerable people get pushed to their tipping point this way when there is no **** reason for it. I've seen it explained away as the "tough love" approach but IMO it's usually people just trying to justify bullying.

 

[Solivagant]

Disclaimer: this post addresses this subject in general and not necessarily this forum. I see this everywhere.

I agree so much. I myself have been several times in a place where people kicking me when I was down in a supposedly helpful way made me wanted to give up/kill myself only more. Kindness and support got me to recovery, not being told that everything wrong with my life is my own fault because I didn't do something to prevent it or anything along the lines of that worldview.

I'll continue on with my personal experience to say that kindness didn't work on me immediately. But isn't it absurd to expect that someone who has been through honeysuckle for years or even their whole life to heal overnight from some kind words? What's far more absurd to me is expecting that sucker punching them is going to achieve that.

After years of kindness and support from a few (and especially one in particular) lovely people, then I got to a place that I could begin to heal. My self esteem rose enough to believe that it was possible and that I might actually be worth it rather than the useless pile of garbage that I thought I was.

The people who acted like jerks to me and put me down when I was already feeling like the lowest honeysuckle on the planet I have NOTHING to thank for, and I'm sure neither do most people going through anything resembling what I did. They prolonged my suffering and that's all.

^ +1

 

[ladyforsaken]

I'll continue on with my personal experience to say that kindness didn't work on me immediately. But isn't it absurd to expect that someone who has been through honeysuckle for years or even their whole life to heal overnight from some kind words? What's far more absurd to me is expecting that sucker punching them is going to achieve that.

After years of kindness and support from a few (and especially one in particular) lovely people, then I got to a place that I could begin to heal. My self esteem rose enough to believe that it was possible and that I might actually be worth it rather than the useless pile of garbage that I thought I was.

Indeed, it really does take time and providing kindness and support should go consistently over time, for it actually seem legit, I lack of a better word here but I hope this makes sense.

 

[TheRealCallie]

Victims vs victim mentality

Unless you really know what someone has experienced, how can anyone determine what they need. Its so easy for others to label anyone who is behaving helplessly as having victim mentality, but sometimes people really are the victims and have every good reason to feel helpless

And sometimes, people really are trapped, by finances or health problems etc..

No wife deserves to be beaten because the husband suffers from paranoia, no man deserves to be beaten up on the street for being gay, no person deserves to be bullied at work because they are good at their job, no child needs to be picked on because they are socially challenged.

This part I agree with.


However, the rest of what you said, you are basically MAKING them the victim. You are enabling them to continue doing what they are doing. Coddling people can be just as bad, if not worse than "kicking someone in the ass."
Yes, each person will need a different way of handling something and dealing with something and no one deserves to be kicked while they are down. BUT, here's the thing...when you enable people, when you tell them what they want to hear, when you coddle them, you are basically giving them the sense that they are entitled to their self pity. No, of course no one wants to hear the hard truth, but the truth is better than enabling, IMO.

What I tell people (both IRL and online) may not be what they want to hear, but I will ALWAYS give the truth, even if it's hard to hear. And I will NEVER coddle someone just because they seem to expect it. The thing about not telling people what they want to hear is that they will automatically get defensive and attack. If they choose to see what I say as an attack, that's on them, that's on their interpretation of what I said, not necessarily what I actually meant.

 

[dd11]

We all have things in life that can make us bitter or better. We all have difficulties, trying times, hard things to deal with. Nobody is immune. And, we only have this particular deck of cards to play in our lives. We can make the best of things or we can wallow in our difficulties or failures. I believe there are times when we are knocked down that we actually do just have to remain lying down for a while to rest and heal. But, there is a point where you get up again and you keep moving on.

 

[SofiasMami]

Victims vs victim mentality

Unless you really know what someone has experienced, how can anyone determine what they need. Its so easy for others to label anyone who is behaving helplessly as having victim mentality, but sometimes people really are the victims and have every good reason to feel helpless

And sometimes, people really are trapped, by finances or health problems etc..

No wife deserves to be beaten because the husband suffers from paranoia, no man deserves to be beaten up on the street for being gay, no person deserves to be bullied at work because they are good at their job, no child needs to be picked on because they are socially challenged.

This part I agree with.


However, the rest of what you said, you are basically MAKING them the victim. You are enabling them to continue doing what they are doing. Coddling people can be just as bad, if not worse than "kicking someone in the ass."
Yes, each person will need a different way of handling something and dealing with something and no one deserves to be kicked while they are down. BUT, here's the thing...when you enable people, when you tell them what they want to hear, when you coddle them, you are basically giving them the sense that they are entitled to their self pity. No, of course no one wants to hear the hard truth, but the truth is better than enabling, IMO.

What I tell people (both IRL and online) may not be what they want to hear, but I will ALWAYS give the truth, even if it's hard to hear. And I will NEVER coddle someone just because they seem to expect it. The thing about not telling people what they want to hear is that they will automatically get defensive and attack. If they choose to see what I say as an attack, that's on them, that's on their interpretation of what I said, not necessarily what I actually meant.

Enabling is a term coined by and most often used by psychological and counseling professionals. YOU are not qualified in that respect to decide what is and isn't enabling anyone here on the forum, especially given the anonymous nature of the forum.
If you read the OP, you would have read that point.

-Teresa

 

[TheRealCallie]

Victims vs victim mentality

Unless you really know what someone has experienced, how can anyone determine what they need. Its so easy for others to label anyone who is behaving helplessly as having victim mentality, but sometimes people really are the victims and have every good reason to feel helpless

And sometimes, people really are trapped, by finances or health problems etc..

No wife deserves to be beaten because the husband suffers from paranoia, no man deserves to be beaten up on the street for being gay, no person deserves to be bullied at work because they are good at their job, no child needs to be picked on because they are socially challenged.

This part I agree with.


However, the rest of what you said, you are basically MAKING them the victim. You are enabling them to continue doing what they are doing. Coddling people can be just as bad, if not worse than "kicking someone in the ass."
Yes, each person will need a different way of handling something and dealing with something and no one deserves to be kicked while they are down. BUT, here's the thing...when you enable people, when you tell them what they want to hear, when you coddle them, you are basically giving them the sense that they are entitled to their self pity. No, of course no one wants to hear the hard truth, but the truth is better than enabling, IMO.

What I tell people (both IRL and online) may not be what they want to hear, but I will ALWAYS give the truth, even if it's hard to hear. And I will NEVER coddle someone just because they seem to expect it. The thing about not telling people what they want to hear is that they will automatically get defensive and attack. If they choose to see what I say as an attack, that's on them, that's on their interpretation of what I said, not necessarily what I actually meant.

Enabling is a term coined by and most often used by psychological and counseling professionals. YOU are not qualified in that respect to decide what is and isn't enabling anyone here on the forum, especially given the anonymous nature of the forum.
If you read the OP, you would have read that point.

-Teresa

Mmm, and YOU are not qualified to tell ME what to do. Get off my honeysuckle, honey.
Try reading my disclaimer once. It says what I write are MY OWN OPINIONS. Just because I didn't go to college to be a **** shrink, doesn't mean I don't know what is and isn't enabling.
Also, just because someone says only certain people can do something doesn't make it true. Oh wait, it's on the internet, it MUST be true. My bad....so sorry

 

[el Jay]

We all have things in life that can make us bitter or better. We all have difficulties, trying times, hard things to deal with. Nobody is immune. And, we only have this particular deck of cards to play in our lives. We can make the best of things or we can wallow in our difficulties or failures. I believe there are times when we are knocked down that we actually do just have to remain lying down for a while to rest and heal. But, there is a point where you get up again and you keep moving on.

But sometimes getting back up isn't easy or simple, and people that try and blame you for not getting back up according to THEIR timescale just make it take that much longer to recover.

 

[TheRealCallie]

We all have things in life that can make us bitter or better. We all have difficulties, trying times, hard things to deal with. Nobody is immune. And, we only have this particular deck of cards to play in our lives. We can make the best of things or we can wallow in our difficulties or failures. I believe there are times when we are knocked down that we actually do just have to remain lying down for a while to rest and heal. But, there is a point where you get up again and you keep moving on.

But sometimes getting back up isn't easy or simple, and people that try and blame you for not getting back up according to THEIR timescale just make it take that much longer to recover.

Of course it's not easy, but the longer you stay down, the harder it is to get back up.

 

[dd11]

Life isn't easy. Who ever said it was or should be? We all have our "stuff". Yes, your timetable isn't someone else's and vice versa. But, it is YOUR journey, not theirs. But, I don't want to waste too much of my future living in the past. Every year I get better at putting the past in the past. It is a journey. We have to do it on our own terms. However, we also have to realize that others dont' HAVE to understand our journey. Too often we seek permission for how we feel. You feel how you feel. It isn't right or wrong. And, then it is up to you to decide what to do with those feelings.

 

[SofiasMami]

Victims vs victim mentality

Unless you really know what someone has experienced, how can anyone determine what they need. Its so easy for others to label anyone who is behaving helplessly as having victim mentality, but sometimes people really are the victims and have every good reason to feel helpless

And sometimes, people really are trapped, by finances or health problems etc..

No wife deserves to be beaten because the husband suffers from paranoia, no man deserves to be beaten up on the street for being gay, no person deserves to be bullied at work because they are good at their job, no child needs to be picked on because they are socially challenged.

This part I agree with.


However, the rest of what you said, you are basically MAKING them the victim. You are enabling them to continue doing what they are doing. Coddling people can be just as bad, if not worse than "kicking someone in the ass."
Yes, each person will need a different way of handling something and dealing with something and no one deserves to be kicked while they are down. BUT, here's the thing...when you enable people, when you tell them what they want to hear, when you coddle them, you are basically giving them the sense that they are entitled to their self pity. No, of course no one wants to hear the hard truth, but the truth is better than enabling, IMO.

What I tell people (both IRL and online) may not be what they want to hear, but I will ALWAYS give the truth, even if it's hard to hear. And I will NEVER coddle someone just because they seem to expect it. The thing about not telling people what they want to hear is that they will automatically get defensive and attack. If they choose to see what I say as an attack, that's on them, that's on their interpretation of what I said, not necessarily what I actually meant.

Enabling is a term coined by and most often used by psychological and counseling professionals. YOU are not qualified in that respect to decide what is and isn't enabling anyone here on the forum, especially given the anonymous nature of the forum.
If you read the OP, you would have read that point.

-Teresa

Mmm, and YOU are not qualified to tell ME what to do. Get off my honeysuckle, honey.
Try reading my disclaimer once. It says what I write are MY OWN OPINIONS. Just because I didn't go to college to be a **** shrink, doesn't mean I don't know what is and isn't enabling.
Also, just because someone says only certain people can do something doesn't make it true. Oh wait, it's on the internet, it MUST be true. My bad....so sorry

You respond to criticism very poorly and seem to enjoy contradicting others' points of view purely for the sake of being contrary.
You either didn't bother to read fox's post or read it and then dismissed it, - eiither one reflects poorly on you.
When there's a critical mass of people who perceive you as a bully, it's time to look within yourself and do some soul-searching instead of puffing up with pride and lashing out.


-Teresa

 

[TheRealCallie]

Victims vs victim mentality

Unless you really know what someone has experienced, how can anyone determine what they need. Its so easy for others to label anyone who is behaving helplessly as having victim mentality, but sometimes people really are the victims and have every good reason to feel helpless

And sometimes, people really are trapped, by finances or health problems etc..

No wife deserves to be beaten because the husband suffers from paranoia, no man deserves to be beaten up on the street for being gay, no person deserves to be bullied at work because they are good at their job, no child needs to be picked on because they are socially challenged.

This part I agree with.


However, the rest of what you said, you are basically MAKING them the victim. You are enabling them to continue doing what they are doing. Coddling people can be just as bad, if not worse than "kicking someone in the ass."
Yes, each person will need a different way of handling something and dealing with something and no one deserves to be kicked while they are down. BUT, here's the thing...when you enable people, when you tell them what they want to hear, when you coddle them, you are basically giving them the sense that they are entitled to their self pity. No, of course no one wants to hear the hard truth, but the truth is better than enabling, IMO.

What I tell people (both IRL and online) may not be what they want to hear, but I will ALWAYS give the truth, even if it's hard to hear. And I will NEVER coddle someone just because they seem to expect it. The thing about not telling people what they want to hear is that they will automatically get defensive and attack. If they choose to see what I say as an attack, that's on them, that's on their interpretation of what I said, not necessarily what I actually meant.

Enabling is a term coined by and most often used by psychological and counseling professionals. YOU are not qualified in that respect to decide what is and isn't enabling anyone here on the forum, especially given the anonymous nature of the forum.
If you read the OP, you would have read that point.

-Teresa

Mmm, and YOU are not qualified to tell ME what to do. Get off my honeysuckle, honey.
Try reading my disclaimer once. It says what I write are MY OWN OPINIONS. Just because I didn't go to college to be a **** shrink, doesn't mean I don't know what is and isn't enabling.
Also, just because someone says only certain people can do something doesn't make it true. Oh wait, it's on the internet, it MUST be true. My bad....so sorry

You respond to criticism very poorly and seem to enjoy contradicting others' points of view purely for the sake of being contrary.
You either didn't bother to read fox's post or read it and then dismissed it, - eiither one reflects poorly on you.
When there's a critical mass of people who perceive you as a bully, it's time to look within yourself and do some soul-searching instead of puffing up with pride and lashing out.


-Teresa

First, I don't really care what you think of me.
Second, what the fresia does Fox's post have anything to do with this? FOX didn't start this thread. FOX is not the OP. Get your story straight, before you come at me.
Third, perhaps you ought to take your own advice.
Fourth, you know nothing about me, so don't presume that you do.
Fifth, oh, I must have missed the part where YOU are qualified to judge ME.

 

[stork_error]

Loneliness is a risk factor for suicide, I don't think that should be taken lightly.

These people are as different as the snowflakes that fall from the sky and what they need is vastly different from one another.

I'm sad to instead see some goading of members who clearly have problems that won't be solved here but could be made worse by the kicks and insensitivity.

If you know what to expect from that person, then why bother provoking them further? That behavior is too much like bullying in my eyes.

"

Sometimes" being the key word. Providing a strong kick is best when the softer approach hasn't been met with any success.

When you (generally speaking here) launch into attack mode off the bat, you can't be surprised if the other person enters defence mode.

I myself have been several times in a place where people kicking me when I was down in a supposedly helpful way made me wanted to give up/kill myself only more.

Kindness and support got me to recovery, not being told that everything wrong with my life is my own fault because I didn't do something to prevent it or anything along the lines of that worldview.

Isn't it absurd to expect that someone who has been through honeysuckle for years or even their whole life to heal overnight from some kind words?
What's far more absurd to me is expecting that sucker punching them is going to achieve that.

After years of kindness and support from a few (and especially one in particular) lovely people, then I got to a place that I could begin to heal. My self esteem rose enough to believe that it was possible and that I might actually be worth it rather than the useless pile of garbage that I thought I was.

The people who acted like jerks to me and put me down when I was already feeling like the lowest honeysuckle on the planet I have NOTHING to thank for,

They prolonged my suffering and that's all.

Sorry for the intensity of my post but my blood boils that vulnerable people get pushed to their tipping point this way when there is no **** reason for it. I've seen it explained away as the "tough love" approach but IMO it's usually people just trying to justify bullying.

I agree so much. I myself have been several times in a place where people kicking me when I was down in a supposedly helpful way made me wanted to give up/kill myself only more.

Indeed, it really does take time and providing kindness and support should go consistently over time, for it actually seem legit, I lack of a better word here but I hope this makes sense.

I believe there are times when we are knocked down that we actually do just have to remain lying down for a while to rest and heal.

Enabling is a term coined by and most often used by psychological and counseling professionals. YOU are not qualified in that respect to decide what is and isn't enabling anyone here on the forum, especially given the anonymous nature of the forum

.

and people that try and blame you for not getting back up according to THEIR timescale just make it take that much longer to recover.

You respond to criticism very poorly and seem to enjoy contradicting others' points of view purely for the sake of being contrary.

When there's a critical mass of people who perceive you as a bully, it's time to look within yourself and do some soul-searching instead of puffing up with pride and lashing out.

 

[Xpendable]

When there's a critical mass of people who perceive you as a bully, it's time to look within yourself and do some soul-searching instead of puffing up with pride and lashing out.

Applying Occam's Razor.