Why try to be chivalrous?

[losingtouch]

So I live in a college town and am in college myself. Today my neighbors, who are two girls, had a U-Haul parked in front of their house. Obviously they were moving out so I went over to offer assistance. I told them to let me know if they need any help with some of the heavier furniture. They said thanks but they had some guys coming over to help. I felt like a ******...they could have just said ok we will let you know if we need you. They treated me like i asked them on a date but they already had a boyfriend... It was really quite rude. Anyway, as I said bye and began to walk back to my house, one of the girls said "sorry".......
First of all, I just went over to ask if they needed any help. I wasn't trying to make a move. They were moving so it would have been a very inopportune time anyway. Secondly, why would they tell me "sorry" like i was missing out on the chance to physically strain myself for free.
Later I saw two guys standing on the porch having beers while the girls loaded a large dresser by themselves.

Also yesterday, the girl sitting next to me taking a final left her purse in class. I finished half a minute later and grabbed the purse and went to go catch her. She had realized she had forgotten it and as I was walking out of the class, she was coming back to get it. I said here is your purse. She quickly grabbed it from me and asked if I took anything or looked through it. I just rolled my eyes and walked away.

Both were demoralizing experience and makes me not really want to offer help in the future. I tend to get this kind of reaction even when I hold doors open for girls as well. For some reason, it seems my help is never appreciated. I don't try to come off as a creep, but maybe I just have that creep factor. I have come to the conclusion that girls only accept chivalrous acts from tall dark handsome men. That isn't me.

 

[celestial]

To be truly honest. Im the kind of person that keeps himself to himself, i dont stop my car to help someone with a flat tire, i dont ask if someone needs a hand with shopping or help to load up a removals truck. I will however open a door for someone if i reach the door first. But when someone offers to help me out im always polite and glad for the asistance. My friend however does seem to get worried over situations similar to yourself. The problem is that he seems to take a comment from someone the wrong way, through paranoia which results in him becoming defencive in the conversation which instantly discomforts the person. Afterwards he asks me whats their problem? and what did i do? but the ismple truth is he came across agressive and paranoid and scared the person he was talking to.

 

[tigerlily]

You were not a ******! Those girls were. Too bad for them. Their priorities are not right and one day they will be disgusted with those beer drinking boys that they won't be able to depend on. Keep being a gentleman and you will find a quality girl that values you.

 

[Remedy]

I tend to notice that as well. I open doors for girls and some say thanks.Than there are the others that look at you like what are you doing . Same thing happened when I was a dishwasher at a restaurant, when I would clear the tables off for waitresses a lot of the time they say thanks but in a weird way. I would only clear the tables off if it was extremely busy for them or if I had nothing to do. Maybe its because I'm unattractive and shy I don't know but I definitely know how you feel when it comes to doing courteous things for women. Its strange because why do people respond so negatively when you do something polite. When you have the best intentions to help a girl out like men have been doing so many years for women and you aren't trying to ask them out or anything. It makes me wonder if some people associate creepy with unattractive because if they do this world works in some strange ways.

 

[Scott]

Both were demoralizing experience and makes me not really want to offer help in the future. I tend to get this kind of reaction even when I hold doors open for girls as well. For some reason, it seems my help is never appreciated. I don't try to come off as a creep, but maybe I just have that creep factor. I have come to the conclusion that girls only accept chivalrous acts from tall dark handsome men. That isn't me.

The trouble is now we're living in such a cynical and paranoid world which is a real shame as a lot of people seem unable to entertain the idea of someone doing something just to be nice. It's almost like it's a totally alien concept to them that requires explanation.

But that's their issue, not yours. Keep going how you're going I say. There are people who deserve it out there and who will appreciate it. Hell even if there wasn't, I appreciate that I do that kind of thing, even if someone else doesn't.

 

[*The Cursed One*]

I tend to notice that as well. I open doors for girls and some say thanks.Than there are the others that look at you like what are you doing . Same thing happened when I was a dishwasher at a restaurant, when I would clear the tables off for waitresses a lot of the time they say thanks but in a weird way. I would only clear the tables off if it was extremely busy for them or if I had nothing to do. Maybe its because I'm unattractive and shy I don't know but I definitely know how you feel when it comes to doing courteous things for women. Its strange because why do people respond so negatively when you do something polite. When you have the best intentions to help a girl out like men have been doing so many years for women and you aren't trying to ask them out or anything. It makes me wonder if some people associate creepy with unattractive because if they do this world works in some strange ways.

You're not alone in this. When similar things happen to me I wonder to myself "well why bother next time if she doesn't appreciate my effort".

But you know what, I carry on being a gentlemen. Not only is it polite but I know it has to pay off someday.

 

[Wyrm]

I treat girls like I would treat any other human being. If if see one struggling to carry something, I offer to help. But if I were to pass by, for example, the girls with the U-haul truck, I wouldn't offer any assistance. I might help if they asked for it (if I had the time and they weren't asking for too much).

It's not surprising that girls sometimes give weird stares at guys who try to be nice or chivalrous. Think about it: if some stranger were to offer such assistance out of nowhere, wouldn't it come across as odd to you? Just because they're girls doesn't mean they aren't going to be weirded out by some random person approaching them to offer help.

In this society, men are taught (well, brainwashed) to be extra nice and polite to women. This is unnecessary and, in almost all cases, is a turn-off to women. Many consider this kind of treatment smothering and annoying. Even the ones that DO appreciate will thank you, but they will not be turned on by it or anything.

I sort of used to be that way, but not anymore. It's a waste of time. It certainly won't make the girl attracted to you, and many don't even appreciate it. I just go about my business like everyone else, and treat people like I would reasonably want to be treated.

But you know what, I carry on being a gentlemen. Not only is it polite but I know it has to pay off someday.

It pays off if you find it rewarding to help others. But this will not work for you if what you want is a girlfriend. It's futile because it just doesn't attract girls. Not only that....... but as I said, it is usually a turn-off.

You were not a ******! Those girls were. Too bad for them. Their priorities are not right and one day they will be disgusted with those beer drinking boys that they won't be able to depend on. Keep being a gentleman and you will find a quality girl that values you.

It doesn't matter what kind of guy we think those girls should go out with. They're going to go out with the kind of guy who physically and emotionally turns them on.

Although it may seem odd that those girls were carrying furniture while the guys were just sitting there drinking beer, I've seen guys get away with more surprising things than that. The reason those guys were getting away with that was because they're the kind of guy who knows how to attract a girl, and attraction is way more powerful than morals, being nice, being responsible, etc. I base these observations not on what girls or guys say, but what I see them do. Actions speak louder than words.

This doesn't mean we should all be useless slobs, it just means that a lot of us guys have the wrong idea on how to attract girls. Jerks just have some things that us nice guys don't have, but you don't have to be or act like a jerk to utilize what brings the girls to them

 

[Lonesome Crow]

mmmm.....These are some of the things I've been working on.
I'm apply this to myself and I'm also remind my duaghter of the
unconditional love we have for one another.

She's going through a rough time in her life at the moment.
She reaching out to me ans it's been a process of healing
for both of us.

As a child my duaghter never judge me nor I judge her.
She was a very, very happy go luckie child.
She would laugh and sing everyday and didn't have a worry in the world.
She would forgive or forget and move forward with her life.
She didn't hang on to resentments and let go natually.
She niether played the blame game or guilt game.
Everyday she would always tells me she loves me.
Sometimes she was upset with me becuase I was trying to teach her
or raised her with good values...that I thought was good and what
my parents had passed on to me....

Little did I know that what I was trying to pass on to her wasn't
too healthy...I had to step back and relized my daughter was
actaully teaching me something. She was pure and wasn't as sick
as I was...And I was the adult.lol

I relized my duaghter loves me for me and I nevered had to earn her love.

It was kind of wierd becuase the spiritaul teaching that I was learning,
my duaghter already had or relized natually

You don't have to do anything.
You don't have to earn my love.
You don't have to earn my friendship.

Jenni was trying to tell me that samething...I was blind to the love she had for me.
She said" Michael you don't have to do anything to be with me"
It totally blew my mind becuase I didn't feel I was deserving of her love.
I was in a toxic relationship prior of meeting Jenni...

I've developed unhealthy behaviors and thinking becuase my ex-gf was a pyscho *****.
Nothing I did for her was good enough. I was constantly doing things and going way..way
the fresia out of my way and enabling her just to seek approval or love from her.
Well, she nevered loved me back...

It also gose back to the relationship I have with my father....
Nothing, absolutely nothing I did was good enough for my father.

My old thinking or programming was vaule judgement, earning love and
approval, praise seeking, competing , comparing, comforming...
In a nutshell these type behaviors are nuratic. And dependent
upon outside circumstance for your happiness.

another way of saying this is...
comparing your inside with other's outside..

Awarness....
You are whole and complete already...
You don't lack anything.
You are not what you do or don't do
You are not what you think or don't thing.
You are not your feelings.

There's nothing wrong with being a decent human being...
I don't try to be chivalrous. It's kind of natraul for me.
I open doors for women and gentalmen all the time.
There's plenty of women or peaple that appriciate what I do..
I do simple nice things for people all the time.

However, today I don't go way the fresia out off my way or bend over backwards...

If you're taking actions to seek, love, praised and approval from
outside sources...ultimately you're not in control of your own happiness
and life. You're letting your thinking and emotions being dictated by what other people do
or don't do...say or don't say.

 

[Twitchy]

I have come to the conclusion that girls only accept chivalrous acts from tall dark handsome men. That isn't me.

This probably won't sound very convincing right now, but eventually you'll find a girl that sees you as a tall dark handsome man and will appreciate your chivalrous act.

To share a tale of awkwardness, I thought I heard a knock at the door last night. I opened it up and there was an attractive woman in an expensive looking coat standing at the door of the apartment next to mine. The conversation went something like this:

Her: "Sorry, I dropped a bottle. BTW my name's Destiny. I've been here a month and haven't had a chance to meet any of my neighbors."

Me: "Duuuuuurrrrrr!! DUUUURRRR!!"

Ok, maybe I was a little more articulate than that, but not by much. I did manage to pick up the bottle for her and rattle off my name. Hey, I didn't drool and I was wearing pants so I say "bravo" for me. :/

 

[Stagnant]

usually if I have the chance to help someone and dont then I feel bad,I like to think when I help someone God is watching or I'm building up good Karma points,
maybe somtimes people are surprized and forget to say thank you

 

[Scott]

It's not surprising that girls sometimes give weird stares at guys who try to be nice or chivalrous. Think about it: if some stranger were to offer such assistance out of nowhere, wouldn't it come across as odd to you? Just because they're girls doesn't mean they aren't going to be weirded out by some random person approaching them to offer help.

No. What is odd about helping someone out? Why are you so suspicious? Did you have a bad experience or something?

In this society, men are taught (well, brainwashed) to be extra nice and polite to women. This is unnecessary and, in almost all cases, is a turn-off to women. Many consider this kind of treatment smothering and annoying. Even the ones that DO appreciate will thank you, but they will not be turned on by it or anything.

Being polite to anyone at all is unnecessary. Just because it isn't a requirement doesn't make it not worth doing.

What has it to do with turning girls on? Topic was about some girls who thought OP was a creep for offering help. Not sure his original idea was 'hey if I go lift some boxes I'm gonna score'.

In my opinion it's a small part of a much bigger problem. The point is more a worryingly cynical distrust that a lot of society has developed in recent years.There's something seriously wrong with society if people feel they have to question their own decent or kind behaviour due to being made to feel as if it's abnormal or creepy.

The 'brainwashing' isn't in the teaching of morals and ways of behaviour to kids, it's the paranoia that has been implanted in peoples psyche by society and the media that leads them to be suspicious of simple kind acts that others might do. It's no wonder this type of thing happens now; instead of accepting an act of decency, people are more concerned with why they are being offered it and question the motives behind it.

I find that very sad and we're overall on a very slippery slope downwards in regards to general values compared with our grandparents and even our parents generation. The world in comparison is a very much darker place.

I'm not advocating taking everything at face value, but there's a huge difference from being naive and questioning every small thing based on cynical suspicion.

---

To share a tale of awkwardness, I thought I heard a knock at the door last night. I opened it up and there was an attractive woman in an expensive looking coat standing at the door of the apartment next to mine. The conversation went something like this:

Her: "Sorry, I dropped a bottle. BTW my name's Destiny. I've been here a month and haven't had a chance to meet any of my neighbors."

Me: "Duuuuuurrrrrr!! DUUUURRRR!!"

Ok, maybe I was a little more articulate than that, but not by much. I did manage to pick up the bottle for her and rattle off my name. Hey, I didn't drool and I was wearing pants so I say "bravo" for me. :/

Grats on the pants

 

[*The Cursed One*]

It pays off if you find it rewarding to help others. But this will not work for you if what you want is a girlfriend. It's futile because it just doesn't attract girls. Not only that....... but as I said, it is usually a turn-off.

So if you were walking down the street and you saw a girl struggling to lift a heavy load or something - would you offer to help or just walk past them and not bother?

Why would you, I, or other men expect the girl to be turned on by that? Not all of us are looking for that result. Some of us are doing that merely out of courtesy.

 

[Catalyst]

In this society, men are taught (well, brainwashed) to be extra nice and polite to women.

We are?? Then why is the rate of abuse towards women, both physical and sexual, so high "in this society"?

This is unnecessary and, in almost all cases, is a turn-off to women.

You are saying it's a turn-on for a woman to be mistreated???


*sighs*

Then we ask why some females can't trust us lol.

 

[Wyrm]

It's not surprising that girls sometimes give weird stares at guys who try to be nice or chivalrous. Think about it: if some stranger were to offer such assistance out of nowhere, wouldn't it come across as odd to you? Just because they're girls doesn't mean they aren't going to be weirded out by some random person approaching them to offer help.

No. What is odd about helping someone out? Why are you so suspicious? Did you have a bad experience or something?

In this society, men are taught (well, brainwashed) to be extra nice and polite to women. This is unnecessary and, in almost all cases, is a turn-off to women. Many consider this kind of treatment smothering and annoying. Even the ones that DO appreciate will thank you, but they will not be turned on by it or anything.

Being polite to anyone at all is unnecessary. Just because it isn't a requirement doesn't make it not worth doing.

What has it to do with turning girls on? Topic was about some girls who thought OP was a creep for offering help. Not sure his original idea was 'hey if I go lift some boxes I'm gonna score'.


In my opinion it's a small part of a much bigger problem. The point is more a worryingly cynical distrust that a lot of society has developed in recent years.There's something seriously wrong with society if people feel they have to question their own decent or kind behaviour due to being made to feel as if it's abnormal or creepy.

The 'brainwashing' isn't in the teaching of morals and ways of behaviour to kids, it's the paranoia that has been implanted in peoples psyche by society and the media that leads them to be suspicious of simple kind acts that others might do. It's no wonder this type of thing happens now; instead of accepting an act of decency, people are more concerned with why they are being offered it and question the motives behind it.

I find that very sad and we're overall on a very slippery slope downwards in regards to general values compared with our grandparents and even our parents generation. The world in comparison is a very much darker place.

I'm not advocating taking everything at face value, but there's a huge difference from being naive and questioning every small thing based on cynical suspicion.

---

---

No, I haven't had any bad experiences in particular, but I stay on my toes and politely refuse help when I don't need it. All my life I rarely ever see people acting exceptionally courteous like that. Though I hold open doors for people behind me, and generally help them when they ask for it, I (and pretty much everyone else in my city) don't really go to offer help to strangers, unless they obviously need it.

I notice a lot of guys being extra polite towards females. I don't know if this has to do with loneliness, or thinking they can ask for their number etc. I just find this chivalrous attitude to be unnecessary. I just treat people with respect, nothing more and nothing less.

That's just how it is when you live in certain places. Maybe if you live in a small town, then most people are like that. But I live in a mix of suburbs and urban areas. That's just not how society is here.

The cynical attitude is really a response to how people have become. To me, I just consider it keeping on my toes. It's a protective mindset in the society in which we live. It's never hurt me to not be too nice to people. I don't go around acting paranoid and avoiding everyone, but I don't go around offering help to everyone either.

---

It pays off if you find it rewarding to help others. But this will not work for you if what you want is a girlfriend. It's futile because it just doesn't attract girls. Not only that....... but as I said, it is usually a turn-off.

So if you were walking down the street and you saw a girl struggling to lift a heavy load or something - would you offer to help or just walk past them and not bother?

Why would you, I, or other men expect the girl to be turned on by that? Not all of us are looking for that result. Some of us are doing that merely out of courtesy.

Yep, as I said in a previous post here, I would help someone if they looked like they were struggling.

But you know what, I carry on being a gentlemen. Not only is it polite but I know it has to pay off someday.

I'm not sure what kind of payoff you're expecting to eventually receive, but I interpreted it as a girl eventually being interested in you for it. That's just how it sounded to me, and I wouldn't hold that against you.

 

[Coverage]

The problem is that as a guy it is sometimes difficult to offer help to female strangers without it being interpreted as a "come on" tactic. More often then not the guy will go out of his way to help a female, not because he necessarily expects to get a date, but because she is atttractive to him and he would like to open up an avenue of disscusion.

 

[Wyrm]

In this society, men are taught (well, brainwashed) to be extra nice and polite to women.

We are?? Then why is the rate of abuse towards women, both physical and sexual, so high "in this society"?

This is unnecessary and, in almost all cases, is a turn-off to women.

You are saying it's a turn-on for a woman to be mistreated???


*sighs*

Then we ask why some females can't trust us lol.

I personally believe that our rate of abuse towards women (as well as towards children and animals) is because our values are not only inconsistent and sometimes contradicting, but our cultural values don't parallel human nature. This results in a lot of frustration, anger, and interpersonal/social difficulties among the population.

Teaching males to treat females different from males will not reduce domestic violence. Also, treating them like regular people will not increase domestic violence.

Women aren't turned on when they get mistreated. But the fact is that the kind of guy who is egocentric enough to ignore societal conditioning and go by his male instincts is also unlikely to be trustworthy or treat others well.

Ask any girl and she'll tell you about some guy she was with because she was attracted to him, but he turned out to be a jerk. The problem, in my view, is that the good guys, like any good citizen, pick up on our twisted, warped values..... and that often makes it hard for them to do well with girls, though they are still often able to find a wife when they are at the age in which women finally decide they want a more caring, responsible guy. But me being 22 years old, that's not going to happen anytime soon.

So what happens is that the egocentric types (who mostly ignore societal brainwashing) are able to get the girls, while the good guys are left out because they, out of their good will, adopted a mentality which is very counterproductive to getting dates and getting laid. Basically, the guys who would treat them well don't have as much skill to turn them on, so both the good guys and the good girls lose.

So that's why I believe that women complain so much about how guys treat them. It could be accurate, or maybe not, but I have a lot of faith in this perspective because everything that I've observed is consistent with this. What people say often contradicts what I have said in this thread, but what I see them do actually parallels my words very closely.

---

The problem is that as a guy it is sometimes difficult to offer help to female strangers without it being interpreted as a "come on" tactic. More often then not the guy will go out of his way to help a female, not because he necessarily expects to get a date, but because she is atttractive to him and he would like to open up an avenue of disscusion.

I definitely agree. Even if this is an individual's intention when it comes to being chivarous, it's perfectly OK because we're all trying to find ways to talk to girls. It's not the right way to do it because it doesn't work, but we are all experimenting and learning as we go.

 

[shells]

Personally, I don't trust people. If a stranger approached me, offering their help to move some stuff, I'd have to politely decline. I'd be too paranoid they try to make off with my stuff or "check out" my stuff to see what they could steal. The stranger's motives could be totally pure and genuine, but how am I to know?

I would be more comfortable calling up family or close friends to help me move some of the heavier things that I wouldn't be able to move on my own.

 

[Wyrm]

Personally, I don't trust people. If a stranger approached me, offering their help to move some stuff, I'd have to politely decline. I'd be too paranoid they try to make off with my stuff or "check out" my stuff to see what they could steal. The stranger's motives could be totally pure and genuine, but how am I to know?

I would be more comfortable calling up family or close friends to help me move some of the heavier things that I wouldn't be able to move on my own.

That's not paranoid, that's called being street-smart.

 

[Lonesome Crow]

Here's the thing.

Some peaple are curtius to me too...
Poeple helped me, open doors or let me through while I'm in traffic.
I do the samething for people...Most people say thank you.
Sometime they'll even have a conversations with me

Heck, a couple of strangers helped me pushed my truck out of the
intersection when I ran out of gas not too long ago.
When I ride my bike strangers would wave to me or say hello to me.
I think it's mostly the vibe I put out...

These are simple little things...

Not everyone is going to like me nor accept me.
Yes of course there's criminals out there.....
mmmm....oh hell no !!!!, I wouldn't let the next door nieghbor kids
see my guitar collections.lmao

I've offer help to strangers before and they just said they
had help coming already and told me thanks for offering...
It wasn't a big deal.

The piont remains...wheather I help people or not, dosn't
constitute who I am or make me a better person or less of a person.
It's just common curtisies

It's not like they're going to remember me a year from now.
Heck..I can't even remember all the people's faces that were kind
to me....Just a few peaple that left an imprint on me.

I also used to live in a smaller community. Where almost everyone
knows everyone. Complete strangers would say hello to me and
have chit chat. It was a lay back, mello, beautiful town.
So having had that experince in my life I knew not all people are
fucken retarded.

Well..honeysuckle, if you wanna bang a chick ( i mean get to know her)...
Stop beating around the bush, Just ask her...All she can say is
"NO"...

Heck, i had a babe told me the other night she was cold and wanted
to get warm.....And i sure as heck didn't have to go promote myself...
She just came up to me and started being friendly and talkative with me.

Why in the fcuk is it that babes alway want to get to know
me when I'm not interested, unavaliable or have sometype of commitment????lmao
It's some kind of a fucken test...I just know it.
Life just making sure...I stick to my decision and follow through.
Trusting in myself..that's were it begins with me..

Wtf????....I have plenty of skills to turn a woman ON !!!
Surely if a woman willingly strip butt ass naked for me and do her thing, she's getting turned on.
Surely if she lets me lick her all over..there's trust in there somewhere.
She's trusting me that I can make her have multiple orgasim.LMAO

No honeysuckle...no one wants to be treated like honeysuckle regardless of any circumstance, sex , creed,
religion or lack of religion..

You havn't seen me do anything...
Making a general statement in regrauds to anything becuase of your own personal
experince...It might ring true for you becuase your awareness...
However..it's not true for everyone else...

Which comes back to the same priciples...
What level of awareness are you at ?
What level of awarness is someone else at?

Back to the orginal Post...

The girl simply stated...she had help already. It wasn't a big deal to her.
No matter how she said it or how polite she putted it...

It's the way the original poster process it from his level of awareness.
He processed it as another rejection.

The girl had no control over how the original poster would think, react or feel.
The same principle applies to him as will...He has no control over her....